Obama Care Vs Affordable care act.

[packsaddle]

Theory of Evolution (no scientific evidence to support it) assumes things continually improve as time goes on.

 

Natural Law of Thermaldynamics (scientifically proven) says things continually disintegrate as time goes on.

 

So, how's that political evolution thingy working out for you?

 

Stosh

Stosh, the reason this thread was hijhacked is because you made an outrageous claim about a field of inquiry for which you have demonstrated not only doubt but also profound ignorance. I and others have responded in attempts to correct your incorrect assertions. Thanks to EagleCat, but I fear your words are in vain.

 

I ask you, Stosh, if you think evolution is merely another faith system (keep in mind that I don't agree with this characterization but you have admitted that it IS your view), then how is it that you think it is correct for you to attack another person's faith system? Would you welcome a similar attack on the fundamental beliefs of your faith?

[Horizon]

99% of what our government does in the area of the nanny state is a Ponzi.... always has been always will be until the people call them on it. They won't though, they like the check coming in each month. It's free money anyway.

 

Stosh

Except local governments have NOT done a good job. We as a nation built a health care system over time with small parts that work against each other, including but not limited to employer provided (as a response to wage controls in WWII), ERs forced to take anyone, bankruptcy laws, limited numbers of physicians due to the AMA monopoly on residencies, separating the people from the cost, capitation replacing fee for service, and every increasing costs of miracle cures that have a barely statistically significant effect.

 

NONE of this has ever been reformed by either party. Both parties have sat on their hands, since their health plan was always fine and dandy.

 

As for fiscal irresponsibility, blaming it on Obama and the last 5 years is as fallacious as blaming it all on Bush and his 8 years. We haven't balanced the budget except under Clinton thanks to high rates and a tech bubble. We stopped paying for things with LBJ and throwing a war and an increase in social services without paying for them. Reagan signed onto lower taxes and higher spending, further kicking the can down the street. The Tea Party screams, but I don't see real proposals from them, along with an acknowledgment of the costs - the same way the Democratic party did not want to talk about the need to force healthy people to pay for insurance to make the plan work.

 

A pox (that is not covered by insurance) on both of their houses.

[JoeBob]

99% of what our government does in the area of the nanny state is a Ponzi.... always has been always will be until the people call them on it. They won't though, they like the check coming in each month. It's free money anyway.

 

Stosh

Hzn: You forgot the lawyers and defensive medicine costs...

[Stosh]

Theory of Evolution (no scientific evidence to support it) assumes things continually improve as time goes on.

 

Natural Law of Thermaldynamics (scientifically proven) says things continually disintegrate as time goes on.

 

So, how's that political evolution thingy working out for you?

 

Stosh

"Stosh, the reason this thread was hijhacked is because you made an outrageous claim about a field of inquiry for which you have demonstrated not only doubt but also profound ignorance. I and others have responded in attempts to correct your incorrect assertions. Thanks to EagleCat, but I fear your words are in vain."

 

Why is The Theory of Evolution religious based? Well, for one thing, it was written by a theologian to start, not a scientist. Biologicial evolution theories were around long before Darwin stole them from other sources. He took credit for work done by others and claimed in his book without proper citations, their ideas to support his theological premise which was avowedly anti-Christian. His work was promoted by a a man named Leyell who also was not a scientist, but a lawyer. Most of the early proponents of Darwin's work were NOT scientists at all. So to claim a scientific agenda for the work is right from the start - a stretch at best.

 

To cite examples of biological evidence is impossible because, for one thing, all the "missing links" described simply aren't there. One would think that the progression of evolution for the species could easily be archeologically documented. Except no evidence on the missing links has ever been found. Even the missing link between ape and man is no where to be found. The only "evidence" for such activity is a nothing more than speculation. "Looks like it should, so it probably did", is not proper science.

 

So, in the interest of the debate, show me the evidence of evolution of the species? Be sure to show me the links, any links, that validate it. So far none have been found.

 

Granted a lot of work has been done in microevolution, i.e. Merlyn's E. Coli experiment, but serious scientists credit mutations and adaptations not as long term evolutionary progression. At that rate, it would take, in evolutionary terms, billions of years, to show the true results if any. Mutations and hybrids don't necessarily show viable sustainabilities. Take the burro and horse hybrid, the mule. Mules have been around for years, it's a hybrid species which cannot reproduce itself. That in fact shows that much of the mutations/hybridization process does not result in an improved species.

 

So Merlyn can spend all day long asking for evidence when he knows full well, there isn't any. I could ask for evidence of any missing link and he couldn't produce any either.

 

 

"I ask you, Stosh, if you think evolution is merely another faith system (keep in mind that I don't agree with this characterization but you have admitted that it IS your view), then how is it that you think it is correct for you to attack another person's faith system? Would you welcome a similar attack on the fundamental beliefs of your faith? "

 

As far as this issue is concerned, The Theory of Evolution was a treatise of anti-Christian ideals. I didn't attack anyone's faith system, I am talking about the issue of evolution, and how it has been used the past 150 years in world culture as movement against Christian teachings.

 

I have no problem with people being Pantheistic (worship of nature) as a basis for their beliefs. But when their attacks encroach on mine, I have a right to defend them. If one wants to place some kind of blame on someone, let's go back to the source and start understanding why it came about. Charles Darwin was an anti-Christian theologian that put out a treatise to discredit the Church of his day. From that starting point, is where I start the discussion and yet I'm considered attacking someone's faith? I don't believe that is a correct conclusion and would find it difficult to have my mind changed. I, too, have my beliefs and Merlyn and anyone else can have at it to attack it, but one will quickly find, they have no more evidence against catastrophism (creation all at one time), than they have for evolution. Neither can be proven scientifically because they are both faith based systems. And the German philosopher Neitsche said "God is dead". at least he was sure that at one point he must have been very much alive! Even really "smart" people can say some pretty stupid things.

 

Now if anyone wishes to move the discussion on to macroevolution, we could have a hay day with debate on that topic. The creation stories are nothing more than a straw argument to keep the focus off the real reason behind evolutionary thought and ideals.

 

Stosh

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Theory of Evolution (no scientific evidence to support it) assumes things continually improve as time goes on.

 

Natural Law of Thermaldynamics (scientifically proven) says things continually disintegrate as time goes on.

 

So, how's that political evolution thingy working out for you?

 

Stosh

So Merlyn can spend all day long asking for evidence when he knows full well, there isn't any.

 

Not coming from you, no.

 

I could ask for evidence of any missing link and he couldn't produce any either.

 

Because you don't understand the first thing about evolution.

[Stosh]

Theory of Evolution (no scientific evidence to support it) assumes things continually improve as time goes on.

 

Natural Law of Thermaldynamics (scientifically proven) says things continually disintegrate as time goes on.

 

So, how's that political evolution thingy working out for you?

 

Stosh

So educate me. I'm all ears.

 

Stosh

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Theory of Evolution (no scientific evidence to support it) assumes things continually improve as time goes on.

 

Natural Law of Thermaldynamics (scientifically proven) says things continually disintegrate as time goes on.

 

So, how's that political evolution thingy working out for you?

 

Stosh

I've already tried; you're simply ineducable about evolution, as you've already made up your mind.

[Stosh]

Theory of Evolution (no scientific evidence to support it) assumes things continually improve as time goes on.

 

Natural Law of Thermaldynamics (scientifically proven) says things continually disintegrate as time goes on.

 

So, how's that political evolution thingy working out for you?

 

Stosh

I'm still listening.

 

Stosh

[Eagledad]

Here is something I just learned from my CPA, if you don't get a tax return from the IRS, you cannot be penalized for not having health insurance. This is a train wreck that is going to happen and I'm really curious how DC will frame it so that folks like Moose will defend it on forums. I'm not being disrespectful, pragmatically the facts are hard to dispute and my kids will suffer from it all. Barry

[Stosh]

Here is something I just learned from my CPA, if you don't get a tax return from the IRS, you cannot be penalized for not having health insurance. This is a train wreck that is going to happen and I'm really curious how DC will frame it so that folks like Moose will defend it on forums. I'm not being disrespectful, pragmatically the facts are hard to dispute and my kids will suffer from it all. Barry

Only the real poor people don't do tax returns. The people that this whole fiasco is supposed to be helping will indeed fall through the cracks.

 

Stosh

[Eagledad]

Here is something I just learned from my CPA, if you don't get a tax return from the IRS, you cannot be penalized for not having health insurance. This is a train wreck that is going to happen and I'm really curious how DC will frame it so that folks like Moose will defend it on forums. I'm not being disrespectful, pragmatically the facts are hard to dispute and my kids will suffer from it all. Barry

My Bad, I meant Tax refund. That includes everyone who files.

[Stosh]

Here is something I just learned from my CPA, if you don't get a tax return from the IRS, you cannot be penalized for not having health insurance. This is a train wreck that is going to happen and I'm really curious how DC will frame it so that folks like Moose will defend it on forums. I'm not being disrespectful, pragmatically the facts are hard to dispute and my kids will suffer from it all. Barry

I kinda thought that might have been what you were driving at, but even the really poor don't make enough for much of a refund, much of which would be absorbed into medical costs anyway. If I were to receive a $500 refund for filing and a $1000 fine for not having insurance, there's no way I'm going file for the refund.

 

I'm just disappointed that those that really need medical assistance aren't the ones that are going to be helped.

 

Stosh

[moosetracker]

Here is something I just learned from my CPA, if you don't get a tax return from the IRS, you cannot be penalized for not having health insurance. This is a train wreck that is going to happen and I'm really curious how DC will frame it so that folks like Moose will defend it on forums. I'm not being disrespectful, pragmatically the facts are hard to dispute and my kids will suffer from it all. Barry

I have already stated this a few times.. On this thread I know I stated it once before..

 

Statment #23

 

"You Smuckka heads are so scared of the individual mandate. Don't know why, nothing will force you to pay it, the IRS can not go after you or enforce it.. Just worry that you don't overpay and expect a rebate. They may be inclined to take from that the penelty.. But I'm not sure.."

 

 

First your all crying about the individual mandate, Stop it.. Stop it.., Now your crying because it's not really a mandate.. Make up your minds what you want to cry about.. People can't buy into your fear tactics if you keep bouncing the retoric around like a ping-pong ball..

 

Are there things that could be tweeked and improved on.. Sure, but I will trust the suggestions of someone who cares over the suggestions of someone who wants to destroy it. It's a step in the right direction is all..

[Horizon]

99% of what our government does in the area of the nanny state is a Ponzi.... always has been always will be until the people call them on it. They won't though, they like the check coming in each month. It's free money anyway.

 

Stosh

JoeBob - you are absolutely correct on that as well. A client of mine is a radiologist, ends up in court (not personally, just represented by his malpractice firm) once a month. Every lawsuit has to name every doc involved, and since he reads a ton of films - he gets listed, and removed constantly. Total nightmare.

[ASM162]

Moosetracker,

 

Since you seem to be a fan of the ACA, please sell me on it. I would really like to know how this piece of legislation is going to make health insurance affordable for the anywhere from 20M to 50M folks who currently do not have health insurance.