Obama Care Vs Affordable care act.

[ASM162]

Moosetracker,

 

Since you seem to be a fan of the ACA, please sell me on it. I would really like to know how this piece of legislation is going to make health insurance affordable for the anywhere from 20M to 50M folks who currently do not have health insurance.

So, if I understand this correctly, I'm just switching from paying higher premiums, (HA!), to paying more in taxes to cover the uninsured, who can't or refuse to pay for insurance coverage. I am covered thru my employer, and if history is any indicator, to reign in the higher premiums, my employer had to increase the deductible and increase the co-pay. It is still good insurance, but coverage for blood work and other medical tests come out of my pocket to meet a higher deductible. So, while the cost of my premium was somewhat contained, my out of pocket expenses have significantly increased. I'm still losing ground.

Look, my employer does what is in the best interest of ALL the employees who choose to have healthcare provided to them. The costs are out of control. They are unsustainable. Something like tort reform would be a good starting point to help contain costs. Unfortunately, the lawyers have a tight grip on campaign funds.

[Stosh]

Moosetracker,

 

Since you seem to be a fan of the ACA, please sell me on it. I would really like to know how this piece of legislation is going to make health insurance affordable for the anywhere from 20M to 50M folks who currently do not have health insurance.

If you want to know how all this cost stuff works, you need 3 cups and a pea. You turn the cups upside down, put the pea under one of them and voila! You can very easily see it it works. Don't worry about the details, it'll all work out in the end, trust me, the check is in the mail.

 

Stosh

[DigitalScout]

Moosetracker,

 

Since you seem to be a fan of the ACA, please sell me on it. I would really like to know how this piece of legislation is going to make health insurance affordable for the anywhere from 20M to 50M folks who currently do not have health insurance.

Stosh - It sounds like an individual for whom we built the social safety net. Surely you aren't going to be begrudge a disabled veteran who served our country and is now unable to work for the princely sum of $346 + $46 for food per week.

[Stosh]

Moosetracker,

 

Since you seem to be a fan of the ACA, please sell me on it. I would really like to know how this piece of legislation is going to make health insurance affordable for the anywhere from 20M to 50M folks who currently do not have health insurance.

To me it kinda sounds like a "safety net" for everyone whether they need it or not. The charity of every American can be counted on regardless of governmental intervention. The American population rose to the occasion in the aftermath of Katrina and Sandy and yet the complaint is not against the people but the nanny state government that made grandiose promises to get elected and then bailed on them when they needed it the most.

 

Sorry, I don't buy the political solution for social problems as an appropriate method of dealing with it.

 

By the way, I took in an alcoholic veteran into my home for two years trying to help him out. When the police came and dragged him out. I figured I had done enough. Does that mean I am begrudging a disabled veteran who served our country? Sorry, that emotional tear jerk plea isn't going to cut it in my family. My wife and I will be ringing bells for the Salvation Army this year instead of driving a drunk to detox at the VA hospital. That is after we do a shift at the community Thanksgiving Dinner down at the civic center. I'm not a cynical person, but I do like to put my time, talent and resources to the most effective means possible and paying taxes to fund stupidity as my charitable contribution doesn't make me sleep better at night. By the way, my wife and I's trip to Colorado this fall was cancelled because after contacting people out there they said they had plenty of help. Nice to know that my wife and I are not the only ones that do this sort of thing. There's a whole country of people out there that can do it better than bureaucracies.

 

Stosh

[Eagledad]

Interesting read here about a poll of doctors conducted by the New York State Medical Society reported by the New York Post. They don't like it. http://nypost.com/2013/10/29/docs-resisting-obamacare/

[Stosh]

How to take an excellent private industry and totally run it into the ground so that an ineffectual government boondoggle can replace it? Well, we now know. Insurance companies are dumping people right and left, others left with no insurance and can't sign up for the government system and even if they do, doctors are heading out the back door in droves.

 

Yep, we're heading for a single payer system which literally translated means when all is said and done, only the richest guy in the country is going to be able to pay for health care, the rest are on their own.

 

This is quite a legacy this administration is leaving for our children and their children.

[DigitalScout]

It's good to hear that you have had such a excellent experience health insurance. For me, my rates jump 10% per year which means I need to change to higher deductible plan with fewer benefits. When I see a doctor, I'm lucky to get 5 minutes of his time so he can make his 12 patients/hour quota. I don't think so highly of that system.

 

The way the system was heading, only the rich would be able to afford healthcare. With ACA, now every American regardless of income has access to healthcare.

[Brewmeister]

How to take an excellent private industry and totally run it into the ground so that an ineffectual government boondoggle can replace it? Well, we now know. Insurance companies are dumping people right and left, others left with no insurance and can't sign up for the government system and even if they do, doctors are heading out the back door in droves.

 

Yep, we're heading for a single payer system which literally translated means when all is said and done, only the richest guy in the country is going to be able to pay for health care, the rest are on their own.

 

This is quite a legacy this administration is leaving for our children and their children.

This has really been the plan all along. Simply wreck the health insurance system and say "See, the private sector doesn't work! We need the gub'mint to run it all!"

[Huzzar]

It's good to hear that you have had such a excellent experience health insurance. For me, my rates jump 10% per year which means I need to change to higher deductible plan with fewer benefits. When I see a doctor, I'm lucky to get 5 minutes of his time so he can make his 12 patients/hour quota. I don't think so highly of that system.

 

The way the system was heading, only the rich would be able to afford healthcare. With ACA, now every American regardless of income has access to healthcare.

I just shopped for the same policy I had 4 years ago when I was self-employed. I'm thinking of hanging the shingle again and health care is the biggest concern.

 

What was a $350/month policy is now being sold at $950/month. Of course, it covers things like pregnancy and abortion, which I never paid for before as neither was going to happen.

 

BTW, the 10% increases aren't going away, they'll just be on a bigger base figure.

[Stosh]

It's good to hear that you have had such a excellent experience health insurance. For me, my rates jump 10% per year which means I need to change to higher deductible plan with fewer benefits. When I see a doctor, I'm lucky to get 5 minutes of his time so he can make his 12 patients/hour quota. I don't think so highly of that system.

 

The way the system was heading, only the rich would be able to afford healthcare. With ACA, now every American regardless of income has access to healthcare.

The way the system was heading, only the rich would be able to afford healthcare. With ACA, now every American regardless of income has access to healthcare.

 

First of all, I don't know anyone who can really predict the future. Up until this year, my health benefits were increasing and the cost was indeed coming down. Our local healthcare system was working it out with companies in the community to make it happen. Unfortunately this year, my premiums went up and my benefits went down. Why? Because of the Cadillac clause meant my company had to provide less or be penalized by the government. Presently, I have been able to stay out of the government's clutches, receive $85/mo premium and a Health Savings Plan that the company prefills to cover the deductable. They beat the Cadillac penalty and kept the costs reasonable. And I repeat, this is a LOCAL option here in town and not everyone is wealthy in our town. Common labor union members working for us get the same benefits and under the government they would have been ripped just like everyone else. So, "The way the system was heading.." here was great. Now no one knows where it is really heading.

 

There are a ton of people here that are ecstatic that our governor told Obama where to stick it.

 

Stosh

[skeptic]

Whatever is "actually" going to come of this will be a mess. IF, instead of spending the last three years trying to get rid of it we had studied the likely issues and changed things, while still holding to the supposed intent, then maybe we could be in a better position. Those who think the system worked before must live in a fantasy world. That we continue to be at the mercy of the Insurance Industry is the real problem. What makes our society different from most of the world is simply that we seem to think basic medical care is not enough. Much of what we insist we need is expensive and beyond most people's reach anyway. Prices have gone up exponentially "before" this particular fiasco. I was uninsured other than basic VA (fortunate in that regard) once I lost my job due to downsizing until Medicare kicked in. We also add to the problem by allowing the Lawyers to constantly hover and threaten, making doctors afraid to NOT do another test or treatment, even when they know it is not needed. Somehow you have to deal with the indigent who need basic care; right now that is through emergency centers. And since they have to treat, those of us that are more fortunate pay more.

 

So, all of you that keep screaming how terrible it is, please find an actual solution that is equitable to ALL. Some things are simply necessary, and dealing with them by taxes or similar government involvement is really the only way to be sure it happens. Take the profit motive out of the health industry and you have half the fix. Put limits back on the pharmaceutical industry such as no public advertising, and restricting their strangle hold on supply and costs go down. Let doctors be doctors, not paper pushers; and find a way to have family practitioners be the norm, rather than specialists.

 

Of course, all of this is just way too hard to do; it might require a little bit of "Common Sense". But of course that is no longer found in most of our public theater, and is quickly disappearing from even the average person's lives.

[Stosh]

Whatever is "actually" going to come of this will be a mess. IF, instead of spending the last three years trying to get rid of it we had studied the likely issues and changed things, while still holding to the supposed intent, then maybe we could be in a better position. Those who think the system worked before must live in a fantasy world. That we continue to be at the mercy of the Insurance Industry is the real problem. What makes our society different from most of the world is simply that we seem to think basic medical care is not enough. Much of what we insist we need is expensive and beyond most people's reach anyway. Prices have gone up exponentially "before" this particular fiasco. I was uninsured other than basic VA (fortunate in that regard) once I lost my job due to downsizing until Medicare kicked in. We also add to the problem by allowing the Lawyers to constantly hover and threaten, making doctors afraid to NOT do another test or treatment, even when they know it is not needed. Somehow you have to deal with the indigent who need basic care; right now that is through emergency centers. And since they have to treat, those of us that are more fortunate pay more.

 

So, all of you that keep screaming how terrible it is, please find an actual solution that is equitable to ALL. Some things are simply necessary, and dealing with them by taxes or similar government involvement is really the only way to be sure it happens. Take the profit motive out of the health industry and you have half the fix. Put limits back on the pharmaceutical industry such as no public advertising, and restricting their strangle hold on supply and costs go down. Let doctors be doctors, not paper pushers; and find a way to have family practitioners be the norm, rather than specialists.

 

Of course, all of this is just way too hard to do; it might require a little bit of "Common Sense". But of course that is no longer found in most of our public theater, and is quickly disappearing from even the average person's lives.

Okay, XX million people were without health insurance. but XXXX million had it. So lets screw everyone for the XX few. Instead, why didn't the government simply pay the premiums for the XX million people like we do for such things as housing, food stamps, and every other government program? That way the really poor would have been helped and the XXXX million rest of us would be left alone.

 

Way to simple for a huge bureaucracy to consider. Now we have the IRS running health care. Show me where "common sense" plays any part of that process.

 

Stosh

[King Ding Dong]

Whatever is "actually" going to come of this will be a mess. IF, instead of spending the last three years trying to get rid of it we had studied the likely issues and changed things, while still holding to the supposed intent, then maybe we could be in a better position. Those who think the system worked before must live in a fantasy world. That we continue to be at the mercy of the Insurance Industry is the real problem. What makes our society different from most of the world is simply that we seem to think basic medical care is not enough. Much of what we insist we need is expensive and beyond most people's reach anyway. Prices have gone up exponentially "before" this particular fiasco. I was uninsured other than basic VA (fortunate in that regard) once I lost my job due to downsizing until Medicare kicked in. We also add to the problem by allowing the Lawyers to constantly hover and threaten, making doctors afraid to NOT do another test or treatment, even when they know it is not needed. Somehow you have to deal with the indigent who need basic care; right now that is through emergency centers. And since they have to treat, those of us that are more fortunate pay more.

 

So, all of you that keep screaming how terrible it is, please find an actual solution that is equitable to ALL. Some things are simply necessary, and dealing with them by taxes or similar government involvement is really the only way to be sure it happens. Take the profit motive out of the health industry and you have half the fix. Put limits back on the pharmaceutical industry such as no public advertising, and restricting their strangle hold on supply and costs go down. Let doctors be doctors, not paper pushers; and find a way to have family practitioners be the norm, rather than specialists.

 

Of course, all of this is just way too hard to do; it might require a little bit of "Common Sense". But of course that is no longer found in most of our public theater, and is quickly disappearing from even the average person's lives.

Why doesn't anyone ask why a drug patented under US law is allowed to be sold overseas for a substantially less amount than in the US ? Thus making the US patients shoulder the entire responsibility of the R&D costs and selling overseas and manufacturing costs plus a small profit.

 

The US should get the a lowest cost guarantee. It is our laws and legal protections that allow the patent in the first place. If a foreign country violates that patent and the World Courts fail to remedy the situation. We always have the Tomahawk.

[packsaddle]

There are only two simple ways to go in all this. We either have individuals making their own decisions and paying their own way with no shared risk, or else we share the risk (and the costs). We long ago made the decision to turn away from the free market approach and when I say 'we' I mean nearly every last one of us. We decided to have employers paying part of the premium. We decided to have HMOs. We decided to form any number of groups who share the risk, which also include Medicare and Medicaid. But WE also decided to exclude anyone who couldn't 'fit in' with the requirements to be part of one of those other groups and 'those' people are the ones that the ACA will bring into the shared risk.

 

I do get what is happening. What is happening is merely a logical extension of what we all decided to do a long time ago and that was NOT to have individuals take individual responsibility and accept the risks and costs for whatever life had for them. So Be It.

 

Anyone who is not ready to relinquish their employer contributions or their Medicare or their VA benefits or whatever other shared risk subsidy they have....tough luck. The real issue is that you like the benefits of shared risk that you receive and you don't want to apply that standard to others who are less fortunate because you don't want to pay more to share those added risks. I DO get it. Again, I advocate for abolition of employer contributions and all subsidized benefits like Medicare, Medicaid, VA benefits, or any other shared risk approach. Make a fair wage and pay a fair price for medical care IF you can afford it. If not, the market and life will make the correction.

[JoeBob]

Whatever is "actually" going to come of this will be a mess. IF, instead of spending the last three years trying to get rid of it we had studied the likely issues and changed things, while still holding to the supposed intent, then maybe we could be in a better position. Those who think the system worked before must live in a fantasy world. That we continue to be at the mercy of the Insurance Industry is the real problem. What makes our society different from most of the world is simply that we seem to think basic medical care is not enough. Much of what we insist we need is expensive and beyond most people's reach anyway. Prices have gone up exponentially "before" this particular fiasco. I was uninsured other than basic VA (fortunate in that regard) once I lost my job due to downsizing until Medicare kicked in. We also add to the problem by allowing the Lawyers to constantly hover and threaten, making doctors afraid to NOT do another test or treatment, even when they know it is not needed. Somehow you have to deal with the indigent who need basic care; right now that is through emergency centers. And since they have to treat, those of us that are more fortunate pay more.

 

So, all of you that keep screaming how terrible it is, please find an actual solution that is equitable to ALL. Some things are simply necessary, and dealing with them by taxes or similar government involvement is really the only way to be sure it happens. Take the profit motive out of the health industry and you have half the fix. Put limits back on the pharmaceutical industry such as no public advertising, and restricting their strangle hold on supply and costs go down. Let doctors be doctors, not paper pushers; and find a way to have family practitioners be the norm, rather than specialists.

 

Of course, all of this is just way too hard to do; it might require a little bit of "Common Sense". But of course that is no longer found in most of our public theater, and is quickly disappearing from even the average person's lives.

High drug costs in the US = money in lawyers pocket. Other countries don't have the litigation habit of the US, so the same drugs can be sold for less.