US adults not as smart as global counterparts . . .

[NeverAnEagle]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/14/opinion/granderson-dumb-america/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

 

Here is another story on the same topic. My grandfather used to say, "The problem with the government is that it is representative of the people." I'd have to agree.

[NeverAnEagle]

The linked article reports US PISA scores are lower than scores in a handful of foreign countries with combined populations less than the US population. That's not compelling evidence that Americans don't think education is important.

 

The pattern of international and racial gaps in PISA scores isn't new. Past study of these gaps has suggested that "U.S. schools do about as well as the best systems elsewhere in educating similar students." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010904011.html

The lack of education in schools is only an excuse up to age 18. The lack of problem solving, literacy, and other skills in ADULTS has no excuse. Why, as adults, have Americans not taken the opportunity to educate themselves?

 

I live in rural America where lack of opportunity is clearly evident, yet the library is free and open to all. Thanks to open enrollment online classes, anyone has the opportunity to learn from anyone, anywhere. The reason is that they don't value education. The question is why? You can't blame a teacher for your lack of desire to learn once you have exited the educational system.

[NeverAnEagle]

In my area it seems that there is a greater value placed on getting one's hunting license than there is on getting a diploma...

Count Baden-Powell among those whom as a boy valued hunting but hated classrooms.

 

Against school rules, he snuck out to the Copse (a wooded area near his school) to hunt and cook rabbits. He developed skills of stealth to hide himself and his cooking fires from teachers paid to patrol the Copse and catch boys like him.

 

When he got older he incorporated his anti-regimentation skills into a military program that riveted the world's attention to the Siege of Mafeking, and turned his military book Aids to Scouting into a best-seller.

 

How can we combat this thinking and get children and adults to see education as necessary?

Become a Wood Badge Staffer to form and storm boys like Baden-Powell away from the Copse.

 

To its credit, Leadership Development and the Merit Badge system has made great progress in cranking out Patrol Leaders who never walk into the woods with a Patrol at their backs, and Eagle Scouts who learn their citizenship from a book.

 

 

We turn Scouting into After-School School: What every boy hates, has always hated, and will continue to hate until the end of time.

 

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

 

 

Kudu--Baden Powell as a boy may not have liked school, but I bet HIS parents still required him to attend and expected him to put forth his best efforts in all his subjects. In order to succeeded he had to learn more than how to safely discharge a rifle. In some of the readings I have encountered about him he also encouraged the boys to engage in critical thinking, debate, and to become skilled orators. Those are not items he learned while cutting class.

[NeverAnEagle]

And of course the home-school kids always do better, either because of the one-on-one with the parent or the parent cares enough to do it themselves instead of waiting for some inefficient bureaucracy to do it for them.

 

In the state where I live, it his possible for home-schooled students to get a free education through college. They progress at their own pace and if they get ahead far enough and their local school doesn't offer classes at their level, they can continue to go to school (college) until they are 18. For some kids, 2, 3, and even 4 years of college can be gotten at local school district expense. Once they turn 18, they have to start paying for the college courses.

 

Don't think for a moment that parents who take an avid interest in their kids don't know this.

 

Stosh

http://www.parentingscience.com/homeschooling-outcomes.html

 

Home-school kids don't always do better. Structured home-school kids tend to do better, but only homeschool kids with highly motivated parents take the achievement tests. unstructured home-schoolers and un-schoolers do not take the tests so results can't be used to compare the groups because of the bias in self-selection.

[Kudu]

In my area it seems that there is a greater value placed on getting one's hunting license than there is on getting a diploma...

Count Baden-Powell among those whom as a boy valued hunting but hated classrooms.

 

Against school rules, he snuck out to the Copse (a wooded area near his school) to hunt and cook rabbits. He developed skills of stealth to hide himself and his cooking fires from teachers paid to patrol the Copse and catch boys like him.

 

When he got older he incorporated his anti-regimentation skills into a military program that riveted the world's attention to the Siege of Mafeking, and turned his military book Aids to Scouting into a best-seller.

 

How can we combat this thinking and get children and adults to see education as necessary?

Become a Wood Badge Staffer to form and storm boys like Baden-Powell away from the Copse.

 

To its credit, Leadership Development and the Merit Badge system has made great progress in cranking out Patrol Leaders who never walk into the woods with a Patrol at their backs, and Eagle Scouts who learn their citizenship from a book.

 

 

We turn Scouting into After-School School: What every boy hates, has always hated, and will continue to hate until the end of time.

 

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

 

 

Sure, find the passages in which Baden-Powell encouraged the boys to engage in critical thinking, debate, and to become skilled orators, and I'll show you how he used what he called "education instead of instruction."

 

The reason that Scouting was once wildly popular is that Baden-Powell designed it to be the opposite of school. Most BSA Merit Badges are just After-School School. That's why boys hate Scouts.

 

Here is a history, if you are interested:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/traditional/turning_scouting_into_school.htm

[packsaddle]

I won't speculate in the genesis. But it sure doesn't help when we have positions railing against those "over educated Ivy League intellectuals". Yep lets lower our education bar. Or "I don't listen to economists regarding monetary or fiscal policy. I raised a family and learned all I need to know". (Slight paraphrase)

Humility? Now YOU're joking. His smirk and swagger indicated something more along the lines of arrogance. If anything HE was the joke.

[packsaddle]

And of course the home-school kids always do better, either because of the one-on-one with the parent or the parent cares enough to do it themselves instead of waiting for some inefficient bureaucracy to do it for them.

 

In the state where I live, it his possible for home-schooled students to get a free education through college. They progress at their own pace and if they get ahead far enough and their local school doesn't offer classes at their level, they can continue to go to school (college) until they are 18. For some kids, 2, 3, and even 4 years of college can be gotten at local school district expense. Once they turn 18, they have to start paying for the college courses.

 

Don't think for a moment that parents who take an avid interest in their kids don't know this.

 

Stosh

Home-school students do not always do better. It entirely depends on how much the parents invest in both resources and, especially, time. Plus it depends on how well-prepared the parents are as well. Some parents are inadequate as home-school teachers and their children reflect this in their preparedness. As NAE suggests, there are no good statistics to use in order to improve this situation. But as I interact with local tech schools as well as the university, my anecdotal observation is that this lack of preparedness seems not so apparent if they go on to trades or junior colleges in which there are remedial programs, but if they enter this institution with aspirations of entering STEM fields, they often have great difficulty. Math, physics, chemistry, biology all pose obstacles of abstract reasoning that may be 'off the table' for them by this age. Most often I see them switch to sociology or communications....so they can prepare to ask people if they'd like to supersize their order, using proper English.

[Stosh]

And of course the home-school kids always do better, either because of the one-on-one with the parent or the parent cares enough to do it themselves instead of waiting for some inefficient bureaucracy to do it for them.

 

In the state where I live, it his possible for home-schooled students to get a free education through college. They progress at their own pace and if they get ahead far enough and their local school doesn't offer classes at their level, they can continue to go to school (college) until they are 18. For some kids, 2, 3, and even 4 years of college can be gotten at local school district expense. Once they turn 18, they have to start paying for the college courses.

 

Don't think for a moment that parents who take an avid interest in their kids don't know this.

 

Stosh

Mom - Forestry major, worked for the US Forestry Service, quit and stayed home with the kids

 

Daughter #1 - International Financial Consultant - New York, NY

Daughter #2 - Medical Doctor MD and OD, Residency, Houston, TX

Daughter #3 - Bio-medical Research doctorate candidate, U. of Penn.

Son #1 - Electrical Engineer, Boulder CO

 

All home schooled through middle school, all had 4.0 gpa in high school, all graduated highest honors from top colleges around the country. Daughter #2 was salutatorian of her medical class.

 

Of course there are always exceptions to the general rules.

 

My daughter seeing what her step-mom accomplished, will home-school her kids as well.

 

It's not always motivated students, but also motivated parents (helicopter parents excluded).

 

One does not need a teaching degree to home-school their kids, all they need is a desire to make every opportunity for learning available to them. If parents believe education is important, it will become important to their children as well.

 

Parents who farm out their kids to day-care, then farm them out to schools, and farm them out to such places as BSA, will have successful careers of their own. The jury is still out whether that will ever apply to their children.

 

Forgot to mention, Mom was the only one of her siblings to even graduate college, two of her brothers settled for GED's.

 

Stosh

[walk in the woods]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/14/opinion/granderson-dumb-america/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

 

Here is another story on the same topic. My grandfather used to say, "The problem with the government is that it is representative of the people." I'd have to agree.

Seems we've come full circle when an African-American commentator is worried that people are too stupid to vote properly..........

[packsaddle]

And of course the home-school kids always do better, either because of the one-on-one with the parent or the parent cares enough to do it themselves instead of waiting for some inefficient bureaucracy to do it for them.

 

In the state where I live, it his possible for home-schooled students to get a free education through college. They progress at their own pace and if they get ahead far enough and their local school doesn't offer classes at their level, they can continue to go to school (college) until they are 18. For some kids, 2, 3, and even 4 years of college can be gotten at local school district expense. Once they turn 18, they have to start paying for the college courses.

 

Don't think for a moment that parents who take an avid interest in their kids don't know this.

 

Stosh

I'm glad she invested wisely and then later recognized her limitations and allowed those last years of public school to prepare you guys well for college.

Your experience is your family. My experience is students from multiple families over many years. And specifically, the ones I wrote about were home-schooled all the way to their HS diploma. But I think we agree that it depends on how much parents are willing to invest in a meaningful way in the education of their children. This also applies to those in public schools.

[Stosh]

And of course the home-school kids always do better, either because of the one-on-one with the parent or the parent cares enough to do it themselves instead of waiting for some inefficient bureaucracy to do it for them.

 

In the state where I live, it his possible for home-schooled students to get a free education through college. They progress at their own pace and if they get ahead far enough and their local school doesn't offer classes at their level, they can continue to go to school (college) until they are 18. For some kids, 2, 3, and even 4 years of college can be gotten at local school district expense. Once they turn 18, they have to start paying for the college courses.

 

Don't think for a moment that parents who take an avid interest in their kids don't know this.

 

Stosh

High School as basically done for them by the time they started. She sent them to public school for all the extra curricular activities, team sports, etc. They were taking AP classes as freshmen. It wasn't an issue of her limitations, it was an issue of home-schooling college was a waste of time.

 

Public schools were footing the bill for a step up on college for the kids as I mentioned in another thread.

 

Two of the girls were all-state cross-country runners, the boy won awards for math and physics starting his sophomore year. There are some things out there that do benefit the kids that home-schooling can't do. The academic classes they took were their choice as to whether or not they wanted to. Otherwise they took AP classes and even those were optional. Basically they were starting college while still in high school.

 

Stosh