berliner Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Sadly the US education has not only had a bad repuation for the past 3 decades or so ... it really is that bad (outside Ivy League/Private Schools) When I went to school in California as a foreigner I got the highest scores on spelling bees o_O and english was only my 3rd language .... I took all the CTBS and PSAT/SAT stuff. The entire system of learning is so different in the US. A 12 grade US High School Diploma is comparable to 10th grade in germany (Abitur is 13 years). German exchange students who spend a year in the US usually repeat a year unless they are straigh 1/A. And dont even get me started on how bad and dysfunctional the german school system is, they didnt do that great on PISA either ... And you end up with politicans with the knowledge of Sara Palin *shudders* .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Sadly the US education has not only had a bad repuation for the past 3 decades or so ... it really is that bad (outside Ivy League/Private Schools) When I went to school in California as a foreigner I got the highest scores on spelling bees o_O and english was only my 3rd language .... I took all the CTBS and PSAT/SAT stuff. The entire system of learning is so different in the US. A 12 grade US High School Diploma is comparable to 10th grade in germany (Abitur is 13 years). German exchange students who spend a year in the US usually repeat a year unless they are straigh 1/A. And dont even get me started on how bad and dysfunctional the german school system is, they didnt do that great on PISA either ... And you end up with politicans with the knowledge of Sara Palin *shudders* .... BZZZZZZ. You lose King Spelling Bee. It is Sarah. But your point is taken. I constantly shudder at the politicians who blast education and science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berliner Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Sadly the US education has not only had a bad repuation for the past 3 decades or so ... it really is that bad (outside Ivy League/Private Schools) When I went to school in California as a foreigner I got the highest scores on spelling bees o_O and english was only my 3rd language .... I took all the CTBS and PSAT/SAT stuff. The entire system of learning is so different in the US. A 12 grade US High School Diploma is comparable to 10th grade in germany (Abitur is 13 years). German exchange students who spend a year in the US usually repeat a year unless they are straigh 1/A. And dont even get me started on how bad and dysfunctional the german school system is, they didnt do that great on PISA either ... And you end up with politicans with the knowledge of Sara Palin *shudders* .... Sara, Sarah ... I know the difference between continents and countries ^o^ And I would like to see/hear your language skills KDD. How many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Sadly the US education has not only had a bad repuation for the past 3 decades or so ... it really is that bad (outside Ivy League/Private Schools) When I went to school in California as a foreigner I got the highest scores on spelling bees o_O and english was only my 3rd language .... I took all the CTBS and PSAT/SAT stuff. The entire system of learning is so different in the US. A 12 grade US High School Diploma is comparable to 10th grade in germany (Abitur is 13 years). German exchange students who spend a year in the US usually repeat a year unless they are straigh 1/A. And dont even get me started on how bad and dysfunctional the german school system is, they didnt do that great on PISA either ... And you end up with politicans with the knowledge of Sara Palin *shudders* .... Java, JavaScript, VB, Python, COBOL, C++, C# and I dabble in half a dozen others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudu Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 In my area it seems that there is a greater value placed on getting one's hunting license than there is on getting a diploma... Count Baden-Powell among those whom as a boy valued hunting but hated classrooms. Against school rules, he snuck out to the Copse (a wooded area near his school) to hunt and cook rabbits. He developed skills of stealth to hide himself and his cooking fires from teachers paid to patrol the Copse and catch boys like him. When he got older he incorporated his anti-regimentation skills into a military program that riveted the world's attention to the Siege of Mafeking, and turned his military book Aids to Scouting into a best-seller. How can we combat this thinking and get children and adults to see education as necessary? Become a Wood Badge Staffer to form and storm boys like Baden-Powell away from the Copse. To its credit, Leadership Development and the Merit Badge system has made great progress in cranking out Patrol Leaders who never walk into the woods with a Patrol at their backs, and Eagle Scouts who learn their citizenship from a book. We turn Scouting into After-School School: What every boy hates, has always hated, and will continue to hate until the end of time. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I won't speculate in the genesis. But it sure doesn't help when we have positions railing against those "over educated Ivy League intellectuals". Yep lets lower our education bar. Or "I don't listen to economists regarding monetary or fiscal policy. I raised a family and learned all I need to know". (Slight paraphrase)NeverAnEagle, my favorite is: "To those of you who received honours, awards and distinctions, I say well done. And to the C students, I say you, too, can be president of the United States." W said this in a commencement address. Sometimes the worst thing you can do to someone is to quote them accurately. W is a good example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I get students after they've been admitted to college and even these best students from good high schools often have difficulty with basic algebra or logic or geography, etc. But at least they are bright enough to learn quickly if given the chance. Other than that I interact very little with K-12 students. But I interact a great deal with K-12 teachers and I know that even in the virtual-third-world-South that there are some excellent, motivated teachers out there. Yes, some are not but I think the majority at least 'enter' the profession with high ideals. To me, the fundamental problems with the education and preparedness of students in this country arise when parents and social environment do not value or invest seriously in education for our young. And after a short time, some teachers give up, some burn out, and the very best 'soldier' on anyway. My mother was a teacher. I was constantly impressed with the status that people in other countries that we traveled to placed on her because she was a teacher. In some places it bordered on reverence. And in contrast, the seeming indifference, even contempt, she and others like her received in this country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berliner Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Sadly the US education has not only had a bad repuation for the past 3 decades or so ... it really is that bad (outside Ivy League/Private Schools) When I went to school in California as a foreigner I got the highest scores on spelling bees o_O and english was only my 3rd language .... I took all the CTBS and PSAT/SAT stuff. The entire system of learning is so different in the US. A 12 grade US High School Diploma is comparable to 10th grade in germany (Abitur is 13 years). German exchange students who spend a year in the US usually repeat a year unless they are straigh 1/A. And dont even get me started on how bad and dysfunctional the german school system is, they didnt do that great on PISA either ... And you end up with politicans with the knowledge of Sara Palin *shudders* .... congrats KDD: so you speak engrish and fluent geek ^o^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuctTape Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Sadly the US education has not only had a bad repuation for the past 3 decades or so ... it really is that bad (outside Ivy League/Private Schools) When I went to school in California as a foreigner I got the highest scores on spelling bees o_O and english was only my 3rd language .... I took all the CTBS and PSAT/SAT stuff. The entire system of learning is so different in the US. A 12 grade US High School Diploma is comparable to 10th grade in germany (Abitur is 13 years). German exchange students who spend a year in the US usually repeat a year unless they are straigh 1/A. And dont even get me started on how bad and dysfunctional the german school system is, they didnt do that great on PISA either ... And you end up with politicans with the knowledge of Sara Palin *shudders* .... My dad lives in Germany. The german system is entirely different in its structure. Students are tracked into different programs from about the 5th grade. IIRC, about 25% of German students go to the university prep school (was that the Arbiter exam?) Another 25% go to the realschule (did I spell it right?) In the US the schools are intermingled. Except for private prep schools, there isn't a tracking system in which students may never switch. The Gymnasium, Realschule, and the vocational are integrated into one system which students are not identified, and tracked into a predetermined outcome. Thus the 12 grade HS diploma earned by each student is very different depending on the classes they took. The observation that a german 10th grade diploma is equivalent to the the US 12th grade diploma is accurate only because the US doesn't grant the diplomas early (except in rare situations) and students continue to take classes for college credit in their 11th and 12th grade years. They graduate after 12 years, but the official course of study is based upon 10th grade level. For example, in my HS 40% of the students are taking college level classes (and receiving college credit if they pass the exam) in their 11th grade year and beyond. Since the US design has all the students in the same school it is difficult to compare. Which design is better is a matter of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBob Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I won't speculate in the genesis. But it sure doesn't help when we have positions railing against those "over educated Ivy League intellectuals". Yep lets lower our education bar. Or "I don't listen to economists regarding monetary or fiscal policy. I raised a family and learned all I need to know". (Slight paraphrase)What? Humility isn't an honorable characteristic anymore? Or did you not get the joke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I won't speculate in the genesis. But it sure doesn't help when we have positions railing against those "over educated Ivy League intellectuals". Yep lets lower our education bar. Or "I don't listen to economists regarding monetary or fiscal policy. I raised a family and learned all I need to know". (Slight paraphrase)Maybe if the leftist liberal elite didn't act like this, http://chicagomaroon.com/2013/10/04/university-clarifies-controversial-elevator-policy/, they'd engender more respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 And of course the home-school kids always do better, either because of the one-on-one with the parent or the parent cares enough to do it themselves instead of waiting for some inefficient bureaucracy to do it for them. In the state where I live, it his possible for home-schooled students to get a free education through college. They progress at their own pace and if they get ahead far enough and their local school doesn't offer classes at their level, they can continue to go to school (college) until they are 18. For some kids, 2, 3, and even 4 years of college can be gotten at local school district expense. Once they turn 18, they have to start paying for the college courses. Don't think for a moment that parents who take an avid interest in their kids don't know this. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewmeister Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 We turn Scouting into After-School School: What every boy hates, has always hated, and will continue to hate until the end of time. Well, not every boy...there seem to be a fair number out there whose moms are motivated by patches, who want a box to check on their college application, or who lack the ambition or desire to leave the school cafeteria and go for a walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berliner Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Sadly the US education has not only had a bad repuation for the past 3 decades or so ... it really is that bad (outside Ivy League/Private Schools) When I went to school in California as a foreigner I got the highest scores on spelling bees o_O and english was only my 3rd language .... I took all the CTBS and PSAT/SAT stuff. The entire system of learning is so different in the US. A 12 grade US High School Diploma is comparable to 10th grade in germany (Abitur is 13 years). German exchange students who spend a year in the US usually repeat a year unless they are straigh 1/A. And dont even get me started on how bad and dysfunctional the german school system is, they didnt do that great on PISA either ... And you end up with politicans with the knowledge of Sara Palin *shudders* .... I spent most of my days on a school that had the worst of both worlds LOL: a german-american school offering both 12th and 13th grade, depending on where a student wanted to study. Hard part was that all non-language subjects would switch languages every year: you would have history, physics, chemistry in english and biology, math and geography in german and next year switch languages ^o^ in 7th grade a 3rd language is added to the curriculum and in 10th grade one can elect a 4th language (I took lab, like AP science and started my 4th language as extracurriculer activity). Thing is with a HS Diploma getting into a european university is very difficult. Abitur is not really seen as Uni Prep here even if I know what you mean. But the german school system with its different parallel strutuces is in pretty bad shape now, and a few attempts at restructuring have failed. For example: the 13 year Abitur was to be shortend to 12 years with the same curriculum in less time. So a couple of years ago there was 2 graduating classes in one year. But as the new, shorter system is not that great some schools went back to 13 years. So it will be interesting to watch what will happen in germany. Current problem is that as being "integrated" there was a move to close down the special schools for the disabled and shove them all into normal schools, who in turn had to build ramps and all ... but somewhere along the way a lot of the professional staff got lost, with their schools and positions subject to budget cuts. I am all pro-integration of disabled kids, but this move was so badly botched, its sad really. And even private schools/academys arent all gravy ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Sadly the US education has not only had a bad repuation for the past 3 decades or so ... it really is that bad (outside Ivy League/Private Schools) When I went to school in California as a foreigner I got the highest scores on spelling bees o_O and english was only my 3rd language .... I took all the CTBS and PSAT/SAT stuff. The entire system of learning is so different in the US. A 12 grade US High School Diploma is comparable to 10th grade in germany (Abitur is 13 years). German exchange students who spend a year in the US usually repeat a year unless they are straigh 1/A. And dont even get me started on how bad and dysfunctional the german school system is, they didnt do that great on PISA either ... And you end up with politicans with the knowledge of Sara Palin *shudders* .... Comparing a German Gymnasium program (a college track program) to a US high school is comparing apples and oranges. The Gymnasium picks the students that are allowed whereas a US high school takes everyone, irrespective of ability or disability. Consequently you get back what you put into the US schools. For kids that want a good education and are motivated, they can take IB and AP classes and their education is excellent (and will easily get you into European universities). Kids in the US can also mix and match subjects as kids move from teacher to teacher whereas everywhere else teachers move from class to class. If you like math and music then take all your electives there. This flexibility allows kids to grow up (asking a 5th grader to make a decision about college is a bit of a stretch). It also supports the really bright kids that are, for example, taking calculus as Freshman and Sophomores. This is all supported in my local, public, high schools. There are also the local, public, charter schools that have more of an emphasis on academics. This isn't to say that US schools are all wonderful. That's nonsense too. A lot of inner city schools are abysmal (although the best schools in the country are mostly inner city.) The problem is partially the parents that don't care what their kids do in school. Another problem is the culture that has formed about trying not to hurt a child's self esteem by giving bad grades. Grade inflation is rampant and backfires when they get to college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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