Cub Leader who pays for Woodbadge

[Basementdweller]

In my opinion, WB does improve program and longevity. You make contacts, learn more about BSA and become a better leader. I would encourage Webelos Den Leaders to go because it helps them better prepare their Webelos for the Boy Scout transition.

I disagree,

 

The only thing that will prepare the boys is going on outings with the troop they intend on joining.

[Brewmeister]

Cub leaders should definitely attend Wood Badge. Leading a Cub Pack has different dynamics than a Boy Scout Troop, but it's no less difficult. It requires trained leaders too. Many of the skills you learn in Wood Badge are directly applicable to the Cub experience. Leading a team of adult, planning large events, developing an annual program - these are all the things that den & pack leaders do all the time.

The part about "planning large events" and "developing an annual program" must have been left out of my Wood Badge course... Was that after the Game of Life? Lemme look through all the PowerPoint printouts they gave me....

 

EDIT: Holy cow I actually found a printout on "project planning." Right after "Managing conflict." Well I'll be!

[Brewmeister]

I also found the "It's all about YOU" slide I referenced earlier:

 

[ParkMan]

Cub leaders should definitely attend Wood Badge. Leading a Cub Pack has different dynamics than a Boy Scout Troop, but it's no less difficult. It requires trained leaders too. Many of the skills you learn in Wood Badge are directly applicable to the Cub experience. Leading a team of adult, planning large events, developing an annual program - these are all the things that den & pack leaders do all the time.

I am referring to all Cub leaders - that includes pack committee members, Cubmasters, Asst. Cubmasters, as well as Den leaders. Many packs I know are 40+, if not 60+ boys & families. Organizing a pack is a lot of work.

 

However, since you mention den leaders, let's look at that. One of my den leaders plans our B&G banquet. It's a feast for 200 people with catered food, program, activities, etc. It requires coordinating amongst numerous adults, leaders, and dens. Several other den leaders plan portions of our campouts for 150 people. The Webelos den leaders coordinate joint activities across 4 different dens. They are planning several Webelos campouts and other activities a year.

 

Let's think about the den leaders in their own dens. For example, they need to sit down and figure out how to complete the 12 different requirements of the Bear rank across 25 meetings. That's 25 different meetings, activities, field trips, etc. You could just throw that together or you could sit down and come up with a cohesive plan for the year. Being a den leader isn't just about then hour you're sitting with the boys. There's a lot of behind the scenes activity to make that hour seamless.

 

The project planning section of WB is just an hour or two. That's an appropriate level of background for these events. Having den leaders go through an hour on project planning is a good thing in my book.

 

There's many different ways to look at the Wood Badge program. If you look at the individual courses, most of them have some relevance to Cub leaders. I've mentioned project planning, but there are others too. However, you could just as easily look at Wood Bdage as a course designed to get leaders focused on building a vision and executing it. That's a great thing for den leaders to do. Reducing Wood Badge to a course on the stages of team development is too simplistic.

[berliner]

Cub leaders should definitely attend Wood Badge. Leading a Cub Pack has different dynamics than a Boy Scout Troop, but it's no less difficult. It requires trained leaders too. Many of the skills you learn in Wood Badge are directly applicable to the Cub experience. Leading a team of adult, planning large events, developing an annual program - these are all the things that den & pack leaders do all the time.

Good one JoeBob. Now I am not a WouldBadger, but dont be so harsh on the Den Leaders.

They are like the New Guys and just want to be like one of the other Banana Republic Generals,

with a chest full of knots like us here ;-)

 

There is no such thing as "overtrained". If someone wants to move a Den like a Division, let 'em.

 

And 1 hour a week is always sweettalk - more like 1 hour per kid if you consider prep & clean up and the whole mess.

 

Brewmeister - stop playing with PowerPoint and have a cold one

 

Parkman - agree 1 or 2 hours intro is good. For larger Cub Programs as Prep dont look at Woodbadge but NDCS/NCS.

[DFWDave]

I took it (and paid for it myself) 3 1/2 years ago when I was a fairly new DL, my choice. My wife did also a little more than a year later. Both glad we did. It painted the "big picture" that neither of us had (I only went as far as Webelos as a boy), and upped the commitment ante for both of us and helped me in cub leader duties, district roles that I ended up in, and in my professional life. At the time I took it, there were probably 6 WB trained adult leaders (approx 100 cubs), and the troop my son chose to join also has about 100 scouts and probably 18 or so WB trained adults (including my wife and I). I witnessed beadings of some of our cub leaders, and noticed that those leaders stood out from the others (who were also great for sure). When I knew I wanted to take things to the next level, and after I attended a session at our council's University of Scouting describing WB, I decided that was the next step for me. No regrets! As for paying, I've seen one instance where I was part of a vote to approve the pack paying for our incoming CM to take it, and it worked out great. Another instance I advocated for a leader to take it using funding from council - while she completed the course and got beaded, the pack didn't quite get the benefit I would have expected out of her ticket items nor the course itself. That was more a lack of knowledge of the person on my part than anything else.

[Stosh]

I took WB at my own expense, but was reimbursed by the troop eventually. I did my ticket on the Webelos transition so I went back for 2 years and was Webelos DL during that time. It helped both programs, which was my expectation.

 

Stosh

[Longhaired_Mac]

I haven't gone through the WB training yet (plan to next Oct) But I came across this vid clip and it really seems to speak to the Ideas behind the WB. On multiple levels. And maybe an idea as to who should be paying for it as well.

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Longhaired_Mac

[bearess]

I’m a den leader, and I agree with whoever said that it seems superfluous at this level.  I’m sure it’s a good training, but.....I don’t feel I need leadership training to run herd on first graders!  I’m my son’s den leader now, and I’ll stick with that for four more years.  After that, I’d like to go back down and be a Tiger Leader in perpetuity.  I’d even do Lions!  I just don’t feel that a ton of training is needed for that......

[Jameson76]

On 10/18/2013 at 10:06 PM, berliner said:

There is no such thing as "overtrained".

Oh if only that were true.  Though I have not seen many, and I have been at this rodeo for a while, I have run across a few leaders that felt if a little training was good, then more was better.  They spend more time in training, attending training, running training, finding courses, etc etc than actually you know, being out and about with a unit, in the woods, in the mud, maybe huddled under a tarp in a downpour chatting with young scout on his first outing and not happy about all the rain.

That's where Scouting happens, out with Scouts having fun on adventures.  Yes the training is good and WB can be OK, but never ever forget the why, as an adult, you are involved in the program.  Lose that focus and you are just an older person in a khaki uniform.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Jameson76

[SSScout]

Nice resuscitated thread.  

Training , if done right, has only one real goal:  to open up new possibilities.

If you already have the skill, the talent, training reinforces it.  If you haven't been there, done that,  good training allows you to see another way, it allows you to avoid having to discover, all over again,   what previous generations discovered , often at risk to their lives and limb.  

The Scouter that has had only ONE experience may think THAT"S the only way to do it.  It can be seen as going back to our own parental upbringing.  How do we first think "how to deal with kids"  except to remember, even unconsciously, how our parents dealt with ourselves ?  The Scouts he/she meets and deals with may (or may not?)  benefit from that experience.  This is why we are REQUIRED to take the YPT...   WB is only an option.  But it gives the Scouter a chance to gain and give .  Any time I train folks (IOLS, CSL Specific,  SL Specific,  even WB staff), I have also learned from the course takers.  How many ways can you tie the  bowline?  How any different types of SCOUT will you meet?   Do you do the same in each situation?  

There is a story thread on a FB that I follow, concerning a Cub that has been asked to leave a Pack because the DL cannot "deal" with  him.  The family (mom?) expressing the story tells how much the Cub loves Scouting , that he is  "on the spectrum" and did well at summer camp and with previous DLs.  Why this particular DL?  Perhaps this DL knows no other way to be a DL than in one way.  The DL that has many tools in his/her DL Cub tool box is truly blessed.   Could WB help this DL ? probably not,  but why  make the Cub suffer for the lack of training/ability/experience/patience of the adult?   We hope the Cub in question  can find a way to continue his trail in Scouting.   And perhaps the DL  can gain a new appreciation and find a way to help EVERY boy/girl  be a "good Scout".  

[desertrat77]

3 hours ago, bearess said:

I’m a den leader, and I agree with whoever said that it seems superfluous at this level.  I’m sure it’s a good training, but.....I don’t feel I need leadership training to run herd on first graders!  I’m my son’s den leader now, and I’ll stick with that for four more years.  After that, I’d like to go back down and be a Tiger Leader in perpetuity.  I’d even do Lions!  I just don’t feel that a ton of training is needed for that......

I agree!  I think back to the Baby Boom era. Huge packs, lots of dens.  The grand ladies that served as den mothers, and the men who were cub masters, all were superb organizers.  Yet very few, if any, had attended WB, or any kind of leadership training outside of their job.  (WB back then was a "by invitation only" event.)  But the pack ran like a Swiss watch.  Without computers, smart phones, email, social media--gasp!

Much of the today's "leadership" and "management" training strives mightily to reduce the human/art side the equation, and emphasize the "science" side.  This results in the cottage-industry model, where experts tell us painfully obvious things for hours on end.  When, in fact, a half-hour of guiding principles and actual work would be more beneficial.

Leave No Trace is a good example of this.  "Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but foot prints" has turned into hours of lecture, dogma, levels of certification, etc. 

 

 

[desertrat77]

2 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Oh if only that were true.  Though I have not seen many, and I have been at this rodeo for a while, I have run across a few leaders that felt if a little training was good, then more was better.  They spend more time in training, attending training, running training, finding courses, etc etc than actually you know, being out and about with a unit, in the woods, in the mud, maybe huddled under a tarp in a downpour chatting with young scout on his first outing and not happy about all the rain.

That's where Scouting happens, out with Scouts having fun on adventures.  Yes the training is good and WB can be OK, but never ever forget the why, as an adult, you are involved in the program.  Lose that focus and you are just an older person in a khaki uniform.

Well said!  I've moved around quite a bit in life, and rarely have I seen the many of the super-dedicated-to-training scouters out in the thick of things, be it a backpacking trip or a camporee.  There are exceptions, of course, but they were no doubt wired that way before they attended training. 

For some scouters, attending training and serving on training staffs is their comfort zone.  After all, at district/council/national training, there are endless opportunities to make contacts, feather one's nest, hobnob with people higher up in the food chain, collect another geegaw to put on the uniform, lecture unit-level trainees on subjects that they themselves have never done, etc.  Even if the trainer has experience/success in the subject they are teaching, many can't resist pontification as they lecture us commoners.

I've also noted that if an ultra-training type is associated with a unit, many are surprisingly average or below average in their duty performance at that level. 

The best unit level scouters I've seen attended the training, got the patch/certificate/beads, and jumped back into the unit and stayed there.  Sometimes they serve on a training staff, but the lion's share of their energy is earmarked for the unit.

Edited July 27, 2018 by desertrat77

[ParkMan]

If we're honest - training really isn't necessary at all.  Scout troops will continue to exist and kids will get the experience of being a Scout.

We have training for anything to provide the opportunity to learn so that we can perhaps do a better job at what we do.  Training doesn't guarantee that.  Hopefully it does give you a few tools you can use.

Personally, I think trainong is a good thing.  Howevet, if someone isn't open to training or is confident enough in their own abilities already, then they shouldn't go.  

I find the negative Wood Badge comments curious.  Yes, I agree - if attending the class is unlikely to lead to you learning something new- then don't go.  However, I have not run into anyone who has taken the course and criticizes someone else for not going.  Honestly, I hear way more negative comments directed towards Wood Badge and those who take it than anything else. 

Five years after my original posts here, I still think Wood Badge is a great course and encourage Cub leaders to attend.  I learned a lot as a new leader taking it and remember the lessons frequently.  But, I'm someone who sees a course like Wood Badge as a way to become a stronger Scouter.

[WisconsinMomma]

12 hours ago, bearess said:

I’m a den leader, and I agree with whoever said that it seems superfluous at this level.  I’m sure it’s a good training, but.....I don’t feel I need leadership training to run herd on first graders!  I’m my son’s den leader now, and I’ll stick with that for four more years.  After that, I’d like to go back down and be a Tiger Leader in perpetuity.  I’d even do Lions!  I just don’t feel that a ton of training is needed for that......

I took Wood Badge when my two older boys were just starting Boy Scouts. I am still involved with my youngest in the Cub pack, but if we all stick with Scouting, I'm going to be in the program for the next 10 years.  Might as well get trained.  BALOO is important for Cub Scouting.  I recommend Wood Badge to people who expect to be active in Scouting for many years, and for people who did not grow up in Scouting and would like to experience the patrol method firsthand.  My involvement in Scouting is increasing a lot through the Wood Badge ticket work... which is likely a lifelong commitment to Scouting. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by WisconsinMomma