Tune-up hikes?

[Basementdweller]

We found tune up hikes to be very useful for gear checking and getting your pack to fit right but, as mentioned, they really don't lead to conditioning. If a boy can't hike 5 miles with a loaded pack he needs to work on his own or wait on the trip--one or two hikes with the troop won't help.

Footwear????

 

All but gone are the days of wearing hiking boots while mowing the lawn or to school to break them in. A few short walks will let you know if they are going to rub or not.

 

My son and I hike in trail runners when it is dry or on single day outings. Gore tex soft sided boots when it is wet.....I have a pair of Asolo G420's all leather gore tex nice boots but they are obsolete. To heavy for the type of hiking we do. Great winter boot but that is all.

[Basementdweller]

What I am seeing is the Adults are over thinking it....

 

What do the boys want???? Why is this a troop and not a Patrol activity?

 

Young scouts aren't going to plan a 30 mile weekend trip..... Fluffy body type scouts aren't going to go backpacking at all if they have a choice.

 

I attended a Backpacking district camporee in a neighboring council....The camporee was in April so you had lots of new crossovers along. It was 10 miles along a river to the camp ground.....We passed more than a few very young scouts broken down in tears along the trail. Then it was 10 more miles then next day back to the parking lot, It was more rugged. Lots more boys broken down in tears completely exhausted with way too much gear on their backs for their size.

 

I learned from the experience and what I witnessed. I would never take the average new crossover on a trek like that, most of them simply don't have the physical strength to do it. Shakedown everyones gear ever trip..... watch the weight.

 

​I wonder how many boys that camporee cost scouting.

I try to feed the SPL new program and outing ideas....I think it goes in one ear and out the other. I try to sit quietly in the corner of the PLC planning session.

 

Then a backpacking trip worthy a week. Benton Mackaye trail or Chellowee trace isn't too far. My guys don't have that sort of vision yet either.

[Kristian]

having witnessed a troop hike where several of the scouts weren't truly successful in hiking just 5-8 miles on a good day carrying just water/food i dont have much hope for them ever doing a 3 day backing trip.

 

if you are doing monthly or so backpacking trips i would say you are doing pretty well as a troop. I agree with the above posters that these trips should be the lead up to things such as winter backpacking, and the more difficult and longer treks.

i would define success as a trip that the scouts were actually able to complete, and also one that they were able to enjoy doing, though learning something also would also be a great benefit for some.

 

distance is something that will vary greatly depending on the terrain, weather, elevation and many other things.

 

i dont believe i ever said 5-8 miles inst enough for anything. i would see this as something most scouts would reasonably be able to do per day.

[Kristian]

What I am seeing is the Adults are over thinking it....

 

What do the boys want???? Why is this a troop and not a Patrol activity?

 

Young scouts aren't going to plan a 30 mile weekend trip..... Fluffy body type scouts aren't going to go backpacking at all if they have a choice.

 

I attended a Backpacking district camporee in a neighboring council....The camporee was in April so you had lots of new crossovers along. It was 10 miles along a river to the camp ground.....We passed more than a few very young scouts broken down in tears along the trail. Then it was 10 more miles then next day back to the parking lot, It was more rugged. Lots more boys broken down in tears completely exhausted with way too much gear on their backs for their size.

 

I learned from the experience and what I witnessed. I would never take the average new crossover on a trek like that, most of them simply don't have the physical strength to do it. Shakedown everyones gear ever trip..... watch the weight.

 

​I wonder how many boys that camporee cost scouting.

a 10mile backpacking trip isnt something i would ever recommend for scouts that haven't already had sufficient hiking experience already. proper gear selection is something that they will learn in time but its not likely to happen on the first or second trip.

[Stosh]

What I am seeing is the Adults are over thinking it....

 

What do the boys want???? Why is this a troop and not a Patrol activity?

 

Young scouts aren't going to plan a 30 mile weekend trip..... Fluffy body type scouts aren't going to go backpacking at all if they have a choice.

 

I attended a Backpacking district camporee in a neighboring council....The camporee was in April so you had lots of new crossovers along. It was 10 miles along a river to the camp ground.....We passed more than a few very young scouts broken down in tears along the trail. Then it was 10 more miles then next day back to the parking lot, It was more rugged. Lots more boys broken down in tears completely exhausted with way too much gear on their backs for their size.

 

I learned from the experience and what I witnessed. I would never take the average new crossover on a trek like that, most of them simply don't have the physical strength to do it. Shakedown everyones gear ever trip..... watch the weight.

 

​I wonder how many boys that camporee cost scouting.

My first BSA activity as a youth (still wearing my cub scout uniform) was a 10 mile hike. Five miles out, make a fire, cook a meal and hike back to town. But back then we didn't have computers and X-Boxes, but we were all addicted to black/white TV.

 

Stosh

[Basementdweller]

What I am seeing is the Adults are over thinking it....

 

What do the boys want???? Why is this a troop and not a Patrol activity?

 

Young scouts aren't going to plan a 30 mile weekend trip..... Fluffy body type scouts aren't going to go backpacking at all if they have a choice.

 

I attended a Backpacking district camporee in a neighboring council....The camporee was in April so you had lots of new crossovers along. It was 10 miles along a river to the camp ground.....We passed more than a few very young scouts broken down in tears along the trail. Then it was 10 more miles then next day back to the parking lot, It was more rugged. Lots more boys broken down in tears completely exhausted with way too much gear on their backs for their size.

 

I learned from the experience and what I witnessed. I would never take the average new crossover on a trek like that, most of them simply don't have the physical strength to do it. Shakedown everyones gear ever trip..... watch the weight.

 

​I wonder how many boys that camporee cost scouting.

The camporee was a 20 mile round trip. A number of scoutmasters showed poor judgement taking 11 year olds who weigh 80 pounds with a 30 pound pack.

 

 

I get your point Blake....but how much gear did you take??? Was it your lunch a canteen and and box of matches. Big difference not hauling tents sleeping bags and 4 meals in fuel

[Stosh]

What I am seeing is the Adults are over thinking it....

 

What do the boys want???? Why is this a troop and not a Patrol activity?

 

Young scouts aren't going to plan a 30 mile weekend trip..... Fluffy body type scouts aren't going to go backpacking at all if they have a choice.

 

I attended a Backpacking district camporee in a neighboring council....The camporee was in April so you had lots of new crossovers along. It was 10 miles along a river to the camp ground.....We passed more than a few very young scouts broken down in tears along the trail. Then it was 10 more miles then next day back to the parking lot, It was more rugged. Lots more boys broken down in tears completely exhausted with way too much gear on their backs for their size.

 

I learned from the experience and what I witnessed. I would never take the average new crossover on a trek like that, most of them simply don't have the physical strength to do it. Shakedown everyones gear ever trip..... watch the weight.

 

​I wonder how many boys that camporee cost scouting.

The point being, one does enough long day hikes, the backpacking hikes are a bit easier. Why do "shakedown" hikes when hikes could be a regular part of the program? I carried about 10# of equipment with food, canteen, day pack, etc. I don't remember it being all that difficult. Back then we didn't have packs with hip belts and all the lightweight nylon we have today. It was a double, unpadded web strap, canvass Yucca Pack and it carried me all through my youth career, including summer camp. For weekend outings, backpack or not, I still use the same pack. I did use an external frame for Philmont's 9 day trek.

 

For reenacting 4 day events, I carry about 20-25# in a canvass pack. Since I'm now an officer, it was nice to dump the 11# gun for a 3# sword and 2# pistol that I can carry on a belt instead of in my hands. Civil War backpacks do not have waist belts, either. Everything hangs on the shoulders. I have learned that gear on cross belts carry easier than backpack straps because of the weight distribution. It's like the double duffle carry, but instead of forward backward weight distribution, it's a side-to-side distribution. Canteen over one shoulder and haversack of 7-10# on the other is better for the new guys than the 10# pulling down on their backs. A tump strap goes a long way to help even more than a waist belt. I'm not saying dumping 11 year-olds with a 20-mile hike right out of the box is a good idea, but some extensive training needs to be done before one even takes the first step of a hike.

 

11 year-olds carrying a pack is good training, but not right out of the blocks. One has to build that up and one does that a bit at a time. 10 mile hikes is only for the legs, the packs of +10# comes with time. I have had some of my newbie scouts struggle with 10-mile hikes with no packs.

 

The 120# double duffles or 85# canoe on BWCA portages is strictly for the older boys. Even a 3-mile portage can be brutal.

 

Stosh

[King Ding Dong]

What I am seeing is the Adults are over thinking it....

 

What do the boys want???? Why is this a troop and not a Patrol activity?

 

Young scouts aren't going to plan a 30 mile weekend trip..... Fluffy body type scouts aren't going to go backpacking at all if they have a choice.

 

I attended a Backpacking district camporee in a neighboring council....The camporee was in April so you had lots of new crossovers along. It was 10 miles along a river to the camp ground.....We passed more than a few very young scouts broken down in tears along the trail. Then it was 10 more miles then next day back to the parking lot, It was more rugged. Lots more boys broken down in tears completely exhausted with way too much gear on their backs for their size.

 

I learned from the experience and what I witnessed. I would never take the average new crossover on a trek like that, most of them simply don't have the physical strength to do it. Shakedown everyones gear ever trip..... watch the weight.

 

​I wonder how many boys that camporee cost scouting.

Our troop is planning a 2 night backpacking trip in a few weeks. I think the plan is to hike a mile or two in Friday, 8-10 Saturday and finish up Sunday morning. My son weighs 65lbs. He caries 13lbs to school, but that is only 1/2 mile each way. I think finding a pack that would fit him would be a challenge. His bag is nearly 5 lbs. I don't see how he can carry his share and keep it at 16 lbs without spending a fortune of gear.

 

The other crossovers are 100lbs or more and are planning on going. One of them struggled a bit on a 3 mile hike last April on same terrain. Not my call. We will see how they do, but I think 5-8 mile day hike is a better option, it just might be the two of us though. I can't separate from the CPAP yet.

 

What's your opinion BD ?

[Stosh]

What I am seeing is the Adults are over thinking it....

 

What do the boys want???? Why is this a troop and not a Patrol activity?

 

Young scouts aren't going to plan a 30 mile weekend trip..... Fluffy body type scouts aren't going to go backpacking at all if they have a choice.

 

I attended a Backpacking district camporee in a neighboring council....The camporee was in April so you had lots of new crossovers along. It was 10 miles along a river to the camp ground.....We passed more than a few very young scouts broken down in tears along the trail. Then it was 10 more miles then next day back to the parking lot, It was more rugged. Lots more boys broken down in tears completely exhausted with way too much gear on their backs for their size.

 

I learned from the experience and what I witnessed. I would never take the average new crossover on a trek like that, most of them simply don't have the physical strength to do it. Shakedown everyones gear ever trip..... watch the weight.

 

​I wonder how many boys that camporee cost scouting.

KDD, I was about 65# when I started scouts and entered high school after beefing up to 98#'s. I know what your son is facing.

 

First of all look at my thread on balancing the load. If his legs can take the weight, counter balance the load either side-to-side or front-to-back. Don't load everything into the backpack!

 

Secondly, don't accept the pace of the group. Have your boy find his own pace and stick with it.

 

At Philmont I was 50 years-old. The boys would take off down the trail and I would keep my pace. After 45 minutes they needed a break, and would rest for 15 minutes. I would then catch up just as they were getting ready to head out. Not a problem, I wasn't tired, I had my pace and it was working well for me. I needed a break of 15 minutes after 3 hours of hiking, that was about 8 miles. Usually we only covered about 10 miles a day so if I had to I didn't really need to stop, but my pace dropped off even more. After 9 days I didn't have any blisters, I was tired, but I definitely saw more scenery and enjoyed the trip more than the boys did. We had 4 adults on the trek and they would argue over who got to fall back with me. They drew straws every morning and the winner would fall back. None of the adults except the SM wanted the faster pace. Remember, long-distance marathon runners run at a pace and stick with it. None of them take a break during the 26 miles.

 

Backpacking is a learning process with physical demands, training coming in second. Everyone does it differently. There is no such thing as one-size-fits-all. Have your boy repack his daily trek to school and even over time add a few more books. Work on balancing load and trying different things until he finds what is comfortable to him and then gradually add weight once he figures out what system works best for him.

 

4 plastic stakes, 4' of parachute cord and a military poncho was all the tentage I had on many backpack hikes. It worked great and added very little weight. I needed raingear anyway and poncho worked best with the pack. If you don't want to carry the stakes, make them when you get there, a small pocket knife will do the trick and the 4' of cord can be used to lash on gear to the pack.

 

Think outside the box and it can be done even for the smallest of boys.

 

Stosh

[Eagledad]

We backpack in most of our gear every campout and do a serious backpack weekend two or three times a year, so we find the scouts don't really need tune-up hikes other than for getting use to a new crew. The adults on the other hand tend to need the hike to get waken up to the physical and mental stress of a longer distance hike has on their older bodies. It reminds them to what a week on the trail will feel like. They tend to get a lot more serious about their equipment after tune-up hikes. I used the hikes to guide the adults as to how boy run works so that they don't try to take over the crew. I don't know why adults feel they must have majority control of the crews. It's never a problem on the patrol hikes, but high adventure crews really struggle with it. Strangely, Boundary Waters is the worst problem with new adults because they just don't see how canoeing all day can be all the strenuous. What's a rod anyway? I have lots of adult stories. Barry

[Basementdweller]

What I am seeing is the Adults are over thinking it....

 

What do the boys want???? Why is this a troop and not a Patrol activity?

 

Young scouts aren't going to plan a 30 mile weekend trip..... Fluffy body type scouts aren't going to go backpacking at all if they have a choice.

 

I attended a Backpacking district camporee in a neighboring council....The camporee was in April so you had lots of new crossovers along. It was 10 miles along a river to the camp ground.....We passed more than a few very young scouts broken down in tears along the trail. Then it was 10 more miles then next day back to the parking lot, It was more rugged. Lots more boys broken down in tears completely exhausted with way too much gear on their backs for their size.

 

I learned from the experience and what I witnessed. I would never take the average new crossover on a trek like that, most of them simply don't have the physical strength to do it. Shakedown everyones gear ever trip..... watch the weight.

 

​I wonder how many boys that camporee cost scouting.

KDD I wouldn't take him....at 65 pounds he cannot even carry all of his own personal gear. Have you purchased his pack? it will probably weigh at least 5 pounds, change of socks and undies 2 pound, sleeping bag 9 pounds standard coleman 30 degree bag....water 2 liters 4 pounds....

 

His gear is already over what he should be carryingt and doesn't have food, tent flashlight rain gear.....

 

There is plenty of time for backpacking... Ultimately it is your decision.......

 

So some options. His patrol shares his load, but it needs to be their decision to do so. Dad could help with some of the load??? You could spend some dollars on down sleeping bags and lighter packs. Or you could wait a year or so till he puts on some weight.

 

How about a father son backpacking trip? you can evaluate his performance without pressure from the rest of his troop.

 

Not knowing your boys or the terrain you will be covering I cannot make a judgement on distances.....But unless they are all athletes 10 miles in a single day is a bit much for a first backpacking trip

[Stosh]

What I am seeing is the Adults are over thinking it....

 

What do the boys want???? Why is this a troop and not a Patrol activity?

 

Young scouts aren't going to plan a 30 mile weekend trip..... Fluffy body type scouts aren't going to go backpacking at all if they have a choice.

 

I attended a Backpacking district camporee in a neighboring council....The camporee was in April so you had lots of new crossovers along. It was 10 miles along a river to the camp ground.....We passed more than a few very young scouts broken down in tears along the trail. Then it was 10 more miles then next day back to the parking lot, It was more rugged. Lots more boys broken down in tears completely exhausted with way too much gear on their backs for their size.

 

I learned from the experience and what I witnessed. I would never take the average new crossover on a trek like that, most of them simply don't have the physical strength to do it. Shakedown everyones gear ever trip..... watch the weight.

 

​I wonder how many boys that camporee cost scouting.

Whoa, what you're suggesting is having a new 16 year-old driver take on a 66 passenger bus as their first test drive.

 

KDD I wouldn't take him....at 65 pounds he cannot even carry all of his own personal gear. Have you purchased his pack? it will probably weigh at least 5 pounds,

 

Yucca pack, about 1# - $15 on EBay

 

change of socks and undies 2 pound,

 

Less than a pound - already has them

 

sleeping bag 9 pounds standard coleman 30 degree bag....

 

Wool blanket and plastic groundcloth - 3-4# - Check your closet and hit the hardware store for a couple of bucks

 

water 2 liters 4 pounds.... Canteen $5-10

 

That is about right

 

His gear is already over what he should be carrying and doesn't have food, tent flashlight rain gear.....

 

Poncho doubles as raingear and tent, small pocket light weighs but ounces.

 

4-5 cups of homemade gorp - 3000 calories/day. No need for messkit.

 

It's doable and doesn't cost a fortune. It just takes thinking along the lines of what's necessary and what isn't. Seriously? a 9# bulky sleeping bag? Even I wouldn't carry that much wasted space and weight.

 

For cooler weather, you can always use a haversack (food bag), canteen, bedroll combo to forgo the pack weight. Bedrolls tend to be warmish and bulky when hiking, but are a lot easier to carry than a backpack.

 

Not much room for luxuries, but as he grows and strengthens, he can add them as he can handle the weight beyond the basics.

 

Stosh

[Basementdweller]

What I am seeing is the Adults are over thinking it....

 

What do the boys want???? Why is this a troop and not a Patrol activity?

 

Young scouts aren't going to plan a 30 mile weekend trip..... Fluffy body type scouts aren't going to go backpacking at all if they have a choice.

 

I attended a Backpacking district camporee in a neighboring council....The camporee was in April so you had lots of new crossovers along. It was 10 miles along a river to the camp ground.....We passed more than a few very young scouts broken down in tears along the trail. Then it was 10 more miles then next day back to the parking lot, It was more rugged. Lots more boys broken down in tears completely exhausted with way too much gear on their backs for their size.

 

I learned from the experience and what I witnessed. I would never take the average new crossover on a trek like that, most of them simply don't have the physical strength to do it. Shakedown everyones gear ever trip..... watch the weight.

 

​I wonder how many boys that camporee cost scouting.

So Blake, do you think a 11 year old is going to cowboy camp on a piece of plastic and a wool blanket. Again not knowing what the lad is like......I doubt he would enjoy eating trailmix for two or three days. Only dad knows him

 

Not knowing where their going It is really bad advise to say, awe take a poncho and a wool blanket, you will be ok..... Too many variables to offer or take advise like that.

[Brewmeister]

What I am seeing is the Adults are over thinking it....

 

What do the boys want???? Why is this a troop and not a Patrol activity?

 

Young scouts aren't going to plan a 30 mile weekend trip..... Fluffy body type scouts aren't going to go backpacking at all if they have a choice.

 

I attended a Backpacking district camporee in a neighboring council....The camporee was in April so you had lots of new crossovers along. It was 10 miles along a river to the camp ground.....We passed more than a few very young scouts broken down in tears along the trail. Then it was 10 more miles then next day back to the parking lot, It was more rugged. Lots more boys broken down in tears completely exhausted with way too much gear on their backs for their size.

 

I learned from the experience and what I witnessed. I would never take the average new crossover on a trek like that, most of them simply don't have the physical strength to do it. Shakedown everyones gear ever trip..... watch the weight.

 

​I wonder how many boys that camporee cost scouting.

An 8-10 mile day with a pack is a lot for a new crossover scout, let alone a 65# scout. You are out to have fun and enjoy nature, not train for the Marines. A scout that has a miserable experience on a first backpack trip will likely not want to take another one any time soon.

[Stosh]

What I am seeing is the Adults are over thinking it....

 

What do the boys want???? Why is this a troop and not a Patrol activity?

 

Young scouts aren't going to plan a 30 mile weekend trip..... Fluffy body type scouts aren't going to go backpacking at all if they have a choice.

 

I attended a Backpacking district camporee in a neighboring council....The camporee was in April so you had lots of new crossovers along. It was 10 miles along a river to the camp ground.....We passed more than a few very young scouts broken down in tears along the trail. Then it was 10 more miles then next day back to the parking lot, It was more rugged. Lots more boys broken down in tears completely exhausted with way too much gear on their backs for their size.

 

I learned from the experience and what I witnessed. I would never take the average new crossover on a trek like that, most of them simply don't have the physical strength to do it. Shakedown everyones gear ever trip..... watch the weight.

 

​I wonder how many boys that camporee cost scouting.

The comments posted pretty much come out of some of the original Scout Handbooks. Don't blame the messenger. There are a lot of kids out there today that can't handle the rigors of scouting as it was originally practiced. Every parent has to decide for their children what is best, but I camped a lot as a young scout of 65-100# that couldn't afford a sleeping bag and used my father's Navy wool blanket. For me, I did not grow up in a houseful of money. My mother did not work and my father was a milk deliveryman. If I couldn't borrow things from my parents (both big into trailer camping), I had to buy it out of my own funds. I learned very early on the value of money, A Scout is Thrifty. I was 2-3 years into scouting before I could afford a basic, no-floor, pup tent that had a back vestibule and no front doors. We did not have troop tents.

 

So, if your son can't handle it, that's okay. But there are those on the forum who may have economically depressed boys that could benefit from advice from the early scouting years. It's a combination of what is necessary to get to the event, even if you can't afford the latest and greatest REI equipment. Even Campmor isn't cheap anymore.

 

Over the years I have camped from one end of the spectrum to the other, wood blanket bedroll under the stars to "camping" in a Pace Arrow motorhome. More often than not, I do the bedroll under the stars or an open ended pup tent. And for those who feel my reenacting background is an influence on that? Nope, both my wife and I camp this way and she's not into reenacting, she's just into getting out into the woods as often as possible. And eating trail mix for a weekend? Well, that's HER idea. For her, camp coffee and trail mix is the only way to get the furthest into the woods. She can't carry a 50# pack and I'm not carrying her share. There's a limit even I draw.

 

Because camping is an environment that is not totally conducive to creature comforts, one must accept a certain degree of uncomfortableness. That varies from one person to the next. Generally I'm not all that uncomfortable, but I'm sure there are those that would not accept camping as I do it. Your mileage may vary...

 

Stosh