dedkad Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I'm a little behind in my reading, so not sure which issue of Scouting magazine I was reading, but I just read that in 2015 the Cub Scout Promise and Law are going away and will be replaced with the Scout Oath and Law. No more learning two different oaths/laws as the boys progress in scouting from Cub to Webelos to Boy Scout. As a Webelos den leader who is trying to teach my boys the Boy Scout Oath and Law even though they are still part of the Cub Scout pack, I think this is a good thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashmaster Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I don't like it. I think that it is trying to force cub scouters to become boy scouts. I like have separate programs. just my opinion. AFAIK the entire program is changing soon too for cubs. I'm not sure exactly how. How often has the cub program changed before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedkad Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 I don't like it. I think that it is trying to force cub scouters to become boy scouts. I like have separate programs. just my opinion. AFAIK the entire program is changing soon too for cubs. I'm not sure exactly how. How often has the cub program changed before.I know they are starting to push Lions for kindergartners. What else have you heard they are changing? I think the Wolf level could use some improvement to make it a better transition from Tiger to Bear. Make it a little more fun and less book work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSS_Chris Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 One of my Council Pros told me that he attended a National training session this summer and the Cub program is going to change completely with the Oath / Law roll-out. The goals of the committee rewriting the requirements are to get rid of a lot of the book work that's eithe crept into the program or been picked up by the schools and replace it with more outdoor activities. I can't find specific details. The official timetable I've heard is 2015-16, but I can also tell you my DE advised us not to buy any extra books this year for the Pack than we need. Our council has a separate DE position for each district just to service Cub Packs ("Quality Unit Executive") , so I wouldn't be surprised if we'll be asked to pilot the new requirements next year. Personally, I think going to one Oath and Law is a good thing. It removes some of the confusion with the current Promise: "Mr. Cubmaster? We brought some old clothes to our church to donate this weekend. Does that still count for us since we didn't give them to Goodwill?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashmaster Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I don't like it. I think that it is trying to force cub scouters to become boy scouts. I like have separate programs. just my opinion. AFAIK the entire program is changing soon too for cubs. I'm not sure exactly how. How often has the cub program changed before.I heard that it is changing to be more like boy scouts and have more outdoor requirements. Next summer they are supposed to roll out more info at Philmont according to my sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 dedkad ... We've tried the Lion Kindergarten program. Run away from it. Too young. To squirrelly. Lowers the maturity of the pack. As far as I'm concerned, start the program in 2nd grade again. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1986 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 From the Webelos leader stance I can definitely agree that scrapping the separate laws and oaths will be great. I would love to see the Lion program run in our council, this year alone I turned away 6 kindergarteners whose parents were sure their child could join and brought them to round-up despite the flyers saying grades 1-5. Sure they are rowdy and short attention spanned but if they integrated it like Tigers where it was one boy, one adult and packs could get a really strong kid oriented leader I am sure it would really improve our scouting numbers. In my experience the younger they start the longer they stay. As far as lowering the maturity of the pack, I agree it can create an even larger gap between the Webelos. That is why we run our Webelos program almost completely separate from our Cubs. We meet to do opening flags and announcements but then work completely independently. We run different field trips and camping activities. The work books are pretty stale and could use some sprucing up. A lot of the same material is covered in schools and the kids get bored. The belt loops could use some updates too. Geocaching is a perfectly acceptable belt loop for cubs as would a few other activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 From the Webelos leader stance I can definitely agree that scrapping the separate laws and oaths will be great. I would love to see the Lion program run in our council, this year alone I turned away 6 kindergarteners whose parents were sure their child could join and brought them to round-up despite the flyers saying grades 1-5. Sure they are rowdy and short attention spanned but if they integrated it like Tigers where it was one boy, one adult and packs could get a really strong kid oriented leader I am sure it would really improve our scouting numbers. In my experience the younger they start the longer they stay. As far as lowering the maturity of the pack, I agree it can create an even larger gap between the Webelos. That is why we run our Webelos program almost completely separate from our Cubs. We meet to do opening flags and announcements but then work completely independently. We run different field trips and camping activities. The work books are pretty stale and could use some sprucing up. A lot of the same material is covered in schools and the kids get bored. The belt loops could use some updates too. Geocaching is a perfectly acceptable belt loop for cubs as would a few other activities. Lions was wrong name. Lions, tigers and bears, oh my. Should have gone with Honey Badgers, they are bad a$$. I am not sure what I think about Lions. Are any of the program materials available online to look at ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blw2 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I think it's good to have one law, one promise.... but I think the little tikes will have an awfully hard time memorizing the scout law as it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSS_Chris Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 From the Webelos leader stance I can definitely agree that scrapping the separate laws and oaths will be great. I would love to see the Lion program run in our council, this year alone I turned away 6 kindergarteners whose parents were sure their child could join and brought them to round-up despite the flyers saying grades 1-5. Sure they are rowdy and short attention spanned but if they integrated it like Tigers where it was one boy, one adult and packs could get a really strong kid oriented leader I am sure it would really improve our scouting numbers. In my experience the younger they start the longer they stay. As far as lowering the maturity of the pack, I agree it can create an even larger gap between the Webelos. That is why we run our Webelos program almost completely separate from our Cubs. We meet to do opening flags and announcements but then work completely independently. We run different field trips and camping activities. The work books are pretty stale and could use some sprucing up. A lot of the same material is covered in schools and the kids get bored. The belt loops could use some updates too. Geocaching is a perfectly acceptable belt loop for cubs as would a few other activities. It looks like they're still tinkering with the program as they go. Not much. There is some on the Northern Star Council website for the 2012 program: http://www.northernstarbsa.org/youthprograms/cubscouts/lioncubs.aspx And some on Merit Badge.org for the 2009 program: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Lion_Cub_Scouts Reading #10 under the "Program" section here, it sounds to me like Lion Cubs is a Fight Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Porter Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 From the Webelos leader stance I can definitely agree that scrapping the separate laws and oaths will be great. I would love to see the Lion program run in our council, this year alone I turned away 6 kindergarteners whose parents were sure their child could join and brought them to round-up despite the flyers saying grades 1-5. Sure they are rowdy and short attention spanned but if they integrated it like Tigers where it was one boy, one adult and packs could get a really strong kid oriented leader I am sure it would really improve our scouting numbers. In my experience the younger they start the longer they stay. As far as lowering the maturity of the pack, I agree it can create an even larger gap between the Webelos. That is why we run our Webelos program almost completely separate from our Cubs. We meet to do opening flags and announcements but then work completely independently. We run different field trips and camping activities. The work books are pretty stale and could use some sprucing up. A lot of the same material is covered in schools and the kids get bored. The belt loops could use some updates too. Geocaching is a perfectly acceptable belt loop for cubs as would a few other activities. I don't know much about the lion. Here is a link to a council that has it. The 2nd link has a bit more info. http://www.northernstarbsa.org/youthprograms/cubscouts/lioncubs.aspx http://www.northernstarbsa.org/Forms/Membership/LionCubsProgramFall%202012Info.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I think it's good to have one law, one promise.... but I think the little tikes will have an awfully hard time memorizing the scout law as it is now.I have a hard time with it. My kids are smarter than me so they don't have as much trouble. From what I have see it takes your average scout a couple of years to get the cub stuff down. I am sure they could get it with support at home, but that is not common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqyire21 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 From the Webelos leader stance I can definitely agree that scrapping the separate laws and oaths will be great. I would love to see the Lion program run in our council, this year alone I turned away 6 kindergarteners whose parents were sure their child could join and brought them to round-up despite the flyers saying grades 1-5. Sure they are rowdy and short attention spanned but if they integrated it like Tigers where it was one boy, one adult and packs could get a really strong kid oriented leader I am sure it would really improve our scouting numbers. In my experience the younger they start the longer they stay. As far as lowering the maturity of the pack, I agree it can create an even larger gap between the Webelos. That is why we run our Webelos program almost completely separate from our Cubs. We meet to do opening flags and announcements but then work completely independently. We run different field trips and camping activities. The work books are pretty stale and could use some sprucing up. A lot of the same material is covered in schools and the kids get bored. The belt loops could use some updates too. Geocaching is a perfectly acceptable belt loop for cubs as would a few other activities. Lions was actually a program in the 50's. (where WEBELOS actually came from... Wolves, Bears, Lions) Betting the program will need some refinement, but I agree, we should start in 2nd grade, and allow Scouts to earn a rank and move up..instead of forcing them to wait months on a program they are already done with. But I also don't like the book work and yearly repetition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blw2 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I think it's good to have one law, one promise.... but I think the little tikes will have an awfully hard time memorizing the scout law as it is now.I have a hard time with the Scout Law too. I did as a kid as I recall, too. My son was so excited when we started Tiger, he was chompin at the bits bringing the book to me (wish he had 25% of that enthusiasm now) He had the law and the promise down cold, I think before we had the first Den mtg. I worked with him to memorize it, but probably no more than 15-20 minutes, Then I would quiz him on it for 30 seconds a pop over the coming days when we were driving or whatever.... I think his balloon deflated by the end of the year when the leader would still break out the book and tell the boys to turn to page x, we're going to do the promise now.... Over time, and even now in the bear den, I've noticed that he confuses them.... I'll ask him, "what's the law?", and he'll say "which one is that?"..... I say "A Cub S...." and he's off and running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I think it's good to have one law, one promise.... but I think the little tikes will have an awfully hard time memorizing the scout law as it is now.Why do I get this funny feeling that the reason they are changing is to benefit the Scouters who can't keep them straight ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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