Shutdown ?

[Papadaddy]

Hope things work out for you Papadaddy.. You hear things that make you hope a quick settlement is close at hand, then you hear stuff that say no one is ready to give in.. Either republicans have to give it up with nothing.. Or the Democrats need to throw them a small bone so they can save face.

 

The most promise I saw was this one video that was with two Republicans ready to refund government and back down.. So, they are not the ones in the lead.. But they were asked if they would deal on the funding of the Government AND not pulling this again on the Deficit if the Democrats offered them a trade in the Medical Device tax (from what I read there is already some agreement on that change).. Those two wanted a way out.. They were just looking for some bone thrown so they could save face (or perhaps it was more that the more radical elements of their party could save face.) and get out of the whole mess..

 

Again, don't know if it would not out the 30-40 house reps & Ted Cruise that are the only ones calling the shots.. And it meant the Dems had to take pity and throw the bone.. Dems I know wouldn't do it just for a 6 week fund the government.. But they might if they could also disarm the threat of Reps trying to take the Deficit fight as a new hostage.. That might be large enough to let them deal something..

 

But who knows.. It sounded like a great idea, but none of the people talking was a lead person who could start the wheel rolling.

 

All I can say is really, really stupid.. Never should of happened, and I hope for you and lots of others in your position, this is short lived.

Thanks for the well wishes, Moose. This morning the House voted unanimously to pay us anyway, and shortly thereafter DOD employees were ordered back to work Monday. I guess the Administration figures if they can't cause us pain, they aren't going to give us any more free days off. I will have a long memory, however, come Election Day.

[Papadaddy]

Maybe if the other side of the aisle (which I still register with) would have made a proposal to help cover the uninsured, and helped small businesses with huge costs, and noticed the people going bankrupt due to health care costs, and broken the AMA monopoly on new physician training centers, etc. we wouldn't have ended up here. Or, perhaps, they could have gone with the Heritage Foundation / American Enterprise proposal that Governor Mitt Romney established in Massachusetts. Ignoring the root problem is not helping things.

Could it be that those without insurance chose not to be covered? That's most of my heartburn with the ACA...being forced under penalty of law to purchase a commercial product. I find it ironic that the Government forces people to buy insurance with one hand and with the other continues to hand out support to tobacco farmers.

[Papadaddy]

FYI on the jokes about essential vs non-essential, my company operates that way. I have had to lay off people who weren't essential - I could keep the doors open for less, I just could not grow. Once the economy recovered, we added those people back who were necessary for long-term growth.

 

As for the government, the Office of Management and Budget defines essential vs. non-essential this way:

 

1.) Provide for the national security, including the conduct of foreign relations essential to the national security or the safety of life and property.

 

2.) Provide for benefit payments and the performance of contract obligations under no-year or multi-year or other funds remaining available for those purposes.

 

3.) Conduct essential activities to the extent that they protect life and property, including:

 

Medical care of inpatients and emergency outpatient care.

Activities essential to ensure continued public health and safety, including safe use of food and drugs and safe use of hazardous materials.

The continuance of air traffic control and other transportation safety functions and the protection of transport property.

Border and coastal protection and surveillance.

Protection of Federal lands, buildings, waterways, equipment and other property owned by the United States.

Care of prisoners and other persons in the custody of the United States.

Law enforcement and criminal investigations.

Emergency and disaster assistance.

Activities essential to the preservation of the essential elements of the money and banking system of the United States, including borrowing and tax collection activities of the Treasury.

Activities that ensure production of power and maintenance of the power distribution system.

Activities necessary to maintain protection of research property.

My job fits the definition of "health and safety" and "safe use of hazardous materials." I was not exempt. But apparently, the National Park service rangers guarding the WWII memorial from invading hordes of veterans in wheelchairs were considered "essential".

[Papadaddy]

There are some extremists who WANT the US to fall into financial ruin. It's their sick way of proving that they are right for hording guns, buying up gold, building underground bunkers and stocking up on 20-year supply of high-energy biscuits. There were a lot of preppers and tea party folk who were very upset that the end of the world didn't come in 2009-11 so they see this as their last shot at it. If the apocalypse never happens, they look like a bunch of fools and who wants to look like a fool. It's like those cults who predict the end of the world and when it doesn't happen they kill themselves.

But at least we can spell "hoarding"...if you think the apocalypse hasn't started, you're not paying attention. Just keep on voting for "hope and change"...I can guarantee you are going to see changes.

[moosetracker]

There are some extremists who WANT the US to fall into financial ruin. It's their sick way of proving that they are right for hording guns, buying up gold, building underground bunkers and stocking up on 20-year supply of high-energy biscuits. There were a lot of preppers and tea party folk who were very upset that the end of the world didn't come in 2009-11 so they see this as their last shot at it. If the apocalypse never happens, they look like a bunch of fools and who wants to look like a fool. It's like those cults who predict the end of the world and when it doesn't happen they kill themselves.

Good news Pappadaddy (not great as great news was that you were not only getting back pay, but also that you would start receiving your checks again).. I know that the Republicans also supported this, but I also know there are a lot of teaparty voters who will be furious with this.. I heard one very nasty person voicing their opinion that federal workers did not deserve it, along with a string of other nasty disrespectful stuff about his opinion of why you deserved nothing.. It was the worst, but not the only comment from the tighty-righties I heard this week.

[Brewmeister]

Let's just stop with this silly "shutdown" talk anyway. Nearly 85% of the government is up and running as always. Add to that the fact that we actually have MORE federal employees on the job since the "shutdown" in some areas that we hadn't before--such as erecting barricades and guarding open-air monuments and parks that had NEVER been "shut down" before--and this is nothing more than political theatre.

[Brewmeister]

I'm baffled how our constitution allows a minority in Congress to shut down the entire government. These minority Tea Party Republicans are holding our entire country hostage and the mainstream Republicans are going along and allowing them.

 

If mainstream Republicans are going along with them, then by definition they are not a minority, at least in the House of Representatives.

 

They are extremist ideologues who, by definition, have promised not to compromise and have vowed to dismantle, not modify or fix, the ACA.

 

There are probably very few Democrats who are completely unwilling to compromise on ACA - are they, too, "extremist ideologues"?

 

The fact is that the ACA is the law of the land, passed by the House and Senate, signed by the president and upheld by the Supreme Court: all three branches of government working as our constitution intended. And now the very constitution-obsessed Tea Party Republican folks are trying to usurp the constitution by blackmailing the country into revoking the ACA. If the Republicans get their way, then they will be handed a very powerful tool to do get whatever they want outside the legal process of making laws.

 

But it's not outside the legal process. All spending bills originate in the House. That is not merely a Congressional rule -- it is a Constitutional one.

 

Again, that the ACA is the law of the land, for now, does not at all imply that it can't be debated, defunded, revoked, etc. It wasn't that long ago (1974-1995) that a 55 mph speed limit was "the law of the land."

That is why the minority is called the opposition party. This is all nothing new. Just theatre.

[Brewmeister]

I'm baffled how our constitution allows a minority in Congress to shut down the entire government. These minority Tea Party Republicans are holding our entire country hostage and the mainstream Republicans are going along and allowing them.

 

If mainstream Republicans are going along with them, then by definition they are not a minority, at least in the House of Representatives.

 

They are extremist ideologues who, by definition, have promised not to compromise and have vowed to dismantle, not modify or fix, the ACA.

 

There are probably very few Democrats who are completely unwilling to compromise on ACA - are they, too, "extremist ideologues"?

 

The fact is that the ACA is the law of the land, passed by the House and Senate, signed by the president and upheld by the Supreme Court: all three branches of government working as our constitution intended. And now the very constitution-obsessed Tea Party Republican folks are trying to usurp the constitution by blackmailing the country into revoking the ACA. If the Republicans get their way, then they will be handed a very powerful tool to do get whatever they want outside the legal process of making laws.

 

But it's not outside the legal process. All spending bills originate in the House. That is not merely a Congressional rule -- it is a Constitutional one.

 

Again, that the ACA is the law of the land, for now, does not at all imply that it can't be debated, defunded, revoked, etc. It wasn't that long ago (1974-1995) that a 55 mph speed limit was "the law of the land."

That is why the minority is called the opposition party. This is all nothing new. Just theatre.

[moosetracker]

Let's just stop with this silly "shutdown" talk anyway. Nearly 85% of the government is up and running as always. Add to that the fact that we actually have MORE federal employees on the job since the "shutdown" in some areas that we hadn't before--such as erecting barricades and guarding open-air monuments and parks that had NEVER been "shut down" before--and this is nothing more than political theatre.

Hopefully your teaparty buddies in the house watch the same right-wing talk radio as you and drink the kool-aide.. If they do, perhaps they will think they have lost their leverage and re-open the government, even if they don't get Obama to give them a "gift" in order to do their job.

[packsaddle]

Let's just stop with this silly "shutdown" talk anyway. Nearly 85% of the government is up and running as always. Add to that the fact that we actually have MORE federal employees on the job since the "shutdown" in some areas that we hadn't before--such as erecting barricades and guarding open-air monuments and parks that had NEVER been "shut down" before--and this is nothing more than political theatre.

.....sputtering....sputtering.. ...how many times do I have to correct you guys? Flavor Aid! It was Flavor Aid that Jim Jones and his cult drank to commit suicide at Jonestown. Flavor Aid!

[Brewmeister]

Hopefully your teaparty buddies in the house watch the same right-wing talk radio as you and drink the kool-aide.

 

Actually, I don't spend a lot of time "watching" radio of any kind. I just don't find "watching" the radio all that interesting. But, to each his or her own.

 

[moosetracker]

Let's just stop with this silly "shutdown" talk anyway. Nearly 85% of the government is up and running as always. Add to that the fact that we actually have MORE federal employees on the job since the "shutdown" in some areas that we hadn't before--such as erecting barricades and guarding open-air monuments and parks that had NEVER been "shut down" before--and this is nothing more than political theatre.

True, sorry Packsaddle you are correct on that point..

 

But, I think in this case Kool is better for them to drink.. Might "Kool down their tempers".. Might "Kool down their heads", Might make them "Kool it".

 

Kool-Aid might not want the branding of a mass suicidal/murder of Jonestown.. They definitely wouldn't want credit for the government shutdown.. But, perhaps they would be fine with the credit of bringing the Republicans to their senses and reopening the government.. Even if it is through some mass self hypnosis, that their hostage has escaped by 85% anyway so they no longer have any leverage in holding it hostage in order to meet their demands of... "Just give us something, so we can save face" are met..

[Stosh]

Maybe if the other side of the aisle (which I still register with) would have made a proposal to help cover the uninsured, and helped small businesses with huge costs, and noticed the people going bankrupt due to health care costs, and broken the AMA monopoly on new physician training centers, etc. we wouldn't have ended up here. Or, perhaps, they could have gone with the Heritage Foundation / American Enterprise proposal that Governor Mitt Romney established in Massachusetts. Ignoring the root problem is not helping things.

KDD - it was, that's where I got the idea from. It sounded really good at the time which is why it didn't go anywhere.

 

Stosh

[DigitalScout]

There are probably very few Democrats who are completely unwilling to compromise on ACA - are they' date=' too, "extremist ideologues"? [/quote']

Why should the Democrats compromise on a bill that was already written into law? It's a done deal. That's like the Patriots trying to negotiate the Superbowl victory after they were beaten by the Giants. Game over, move on. The majority of Americans support the ACA and want the shutdown to end. I'm sorry that a minority of people disagree but that's how democracy works.

 

Again' date=' that the ACA is the law of the land, for now, does not at all imply that it can't be debated, defunded, revoked, etc. It wasn't that long ago (1974-1995) that a 55 mph speed limit was "the law of the land."[/quote']

​41 House bills to repeal ACA have been debated, voted on and defeated. That's democracy in action. They can revisit repealing ACA in a new Congress/Senate/President in a few years but it's extremely shortsighted and foolish to think that Obama will sign a bill that would make major changes to his presidency's keystone legislation. The Republicans should stop wasting everyone's time.

 

[Stosh]

Let's just stop with this silly "shutdown" talk anyway. Nearly 85% of the government is up and running as always. Add to that the fact that we actually have MORE federal employees on the job since the "shutdown" in some areas that we hadn't before--such as erecting barricades and guarding open-air monuments and parks that had NEVER been "shut down" before--and this is nothing more than political theatre.

The House creates a budget. Senate approves. That's how it works. Okay House submits a budget, the Senate denies it. The House submits another, the Senate denies it. Where's the negotiations on either party? The Senate makes demands, the House ignores them. And while all this goes on, they run out of time. Heck, they ran out of time 10 years ago. Congress hasn't approved a budget for so long, most members can't remember how to do it anymore. For the rest of my life, I'm no longer a Rep or Dem, I'm going to vote against incumbents until Congress starts function again. Some idiot nobody off the streets has as much chance in the US Congress today getting something done than those currently in office.

 

Stosh