Shutdown ?

[Stosh]

Stosh, now, you aren't really saying the ACA creates economic incentives for employers to cut people's work hours and to reduce hiring are you? Next thing you know you're going to tell me the $63/head soon to be $300+/head tax companies now have to pay on the number of individuals insured in their plans isn't really going to fund the program and will never go away. Or that businesses might just drop their plans all together! The President promised I'd keep my plan and my doctors.

The president promised you'd keep your plan and doctors. Now, with that being said, how many political and/or campaign promises have ever been kept? So, once you calm down and accept that premise, then remember YOUR COMPANY made no such promises. If it's cheaper to dump you on the government, guess what! Yep, in a heartbeat, if you still have one.

 

Stosh

[King Ding Dong]

Maybe if the other side of the aisle (which I still register with) would have made a proposal to help cover the uninsured, and helped small businesses with huge costs, and noticed the people going bankrupt due to health care costs, and broken the AMA monopoly on new physician training centers, etc. we wouldn't have ended up here. Or, perhaps, they could have gone with the Heritage Foundation / American Enterprise proposal that Governor Mitt Romney established in Massachusetts. Ignoring the root problem is not helping things.

It sure would have been nice if the Republicans had put forth such a plan when they had control. I can't seem to remember that ever happening.

[JoeBob]

1- How or when is the US gonna stop borrowing money to spend on non-essential services? Maybe this shutdown will highlight just how much we can live without. Eventually our money is gonna be worthless, so the sooner we face that we're spending too much; the better chance we have that our republic will survive. Our grandchildren already have a big enough bill to pay.

 

2- The Dems had two years, 08-10, when they controlled the government. The electorate became so alarmed at their free spending ways that they elected Repubs to the house in 10 and again in 12. The house is the division that spends money. So, yes, elections have consequences. For the Dems to now refuse to negotiate with the body that is constitutionally in charge of the purse strings is a facetious tantrum, devoid of logic, enabled by a biased media.

[Horizon]

1- How or when is the US gonna stop borrowing money to spend on non-essential services? Maybe this shutdown will highlight just how much we can live without. Eventually our money is gonna be worthless, so the sooner we face that we're spending too much; the better chance we have that our republic will survive. Our grandchildren already have a big enough bill to pay.

 

2- The Dems had two years, 08-10, when they controlled the government. The electorate became so alarmed at their free spending ways that they elected Repubs to the house in 10 and again in 12. The house is the division that spends money. So, yes, elections have consequences. For the Dems to now refuse to negotiate with the body that is constitutionally in charge of the purse strings is a facetious tantrum, devoid of logic, enabled by a biased media.

The Senate has been trying to negotiate for months. The House wants to ignore a passed law, and defund instead of repeal - which they could not achieve due to a lack of votes in the Senate, and not having the presidency either. Claiming that the Democrats don't want to negotiate, when one side only has one position - kill the bill, is disingenuous at best.

[King Ding Dong]

1- How or when is the US gonna stop borrowing money to spend on non-essential services? Maybe this shutdown will highlight just how much we can live without. Eventually our money is gonna be worthless, so the sooner we face that we're spending too much; the better chance we have that our republic will survive. Our grandchildren already have a big enough bill to pay.

 

2- The Dems had two years, 08-10, when they controlled the government. The electorate became so alarmed at their free spending ways that they elected Repubs to the house in 10 and again in 12. The house is the division that spends money. So, yes, elections have consequences. For the Dems to now refuse to negotiate with the body that is constitutionally in charge of the purse strings is a facetious tantrum, devoid of logic, enabled by a biased media.

JoeBob, we all know the Dems received more votes in 2012 than Republicans in House elections. The reason the GOP controls the House is gerrymandered districts.

[Horizon]

1- How or when is the US gonna stop borrowing money to spend on non-essential services? Maybe this shutdown will highlight just how much we can live without. Eventually our money is gonna be worthless, so the sooner we face that we're spending too much; the better chance we have that our republic will survive. Our grandchildren already have a big enough bill to pay.

 

2- The Dems had two years, 08-10, when they controlled the government. The electorate became so alarmed at their free spending ways that they elected Repubs to the house in 10 and again in 12. The house is the division that spends money. So, yes, elections have consequences. For the Dems to now refuse to negotiate with the body that is constitutionally in charge of the purse strings is a facetious tantrum, devoid of logic, enabled by a biased media.

More accurately, both parties love their gerrymandered districts that protect them. We have them in California too, which created a Democratic Party majority and an echo chamber for both parties. The new system of district design and run offs will make things interesting. The GOP, however, has a problem: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/09/meadows-boehner-defund-obamacare-suicide-caucus-geography.html

[Rick_in_CA]

1- How or when is the US gonna stop borrowing money to spend on non-essential services? Maybe this shutdown will highlight just how much we can live without. Eventually our money is gonna be worthless, so the sooner we face that we're spending too much; the better chance we have that our republic will survive. Our grandchildren already have a big enough bill to pay.

 

2- The Dems had two years, 08-10, when they controlled the government. The electorate became so alarmed at their free spending ways that they elected Repubs to the house in 10 and again in 12. The house is the division that spends money. So, yes, elections have consequences. For the Dems to now refuse to negotiate with the body that is constitutionally in charge of the purse strings is a facetious tantrum, devoid of logic, enabled by a biased media.

Actually, California de-gerrymandered itself in 2011 (the voters took it out of the hands of the legislators and put it in the hands of a bi-partisan committee) and many formally locked in districts became competitive. The result was that the Republicans lost a lot of ground and no longer have blocking power on the budget (their representation in the legislature is now much closer to matching the actual percentage that voted Republican in the state). It will be interesting to see what the Democrats do with it in the long run.

[moosetracker]

The insurance company take over doesn't bother me as much as the healthcare industry that bothers me the most. They have their hands in my birth issues, my retirement, my medicare, and now they decide on whether or not I live or die. Heck, they give me cell phones, a "paycheck" and even sell me cars. Why would anyone not want to come to America, everything's free.

 

After 60+ years, it is now evident that conceal carry is the only freedom that they haven't taken totally away. Need to check it out quick before they do.

 

I wonder with all these statistics floating around, how many of the colonists were pro-King George and now many were pro-revolution? (Like it made any real difference)

 

 

Stosh

All you need is insurance, you don't need to get it through the ACA.. So get it through another insurance agency..

[DigitalScout]

The NY Time reports ... "56 percent of Americans say they prefer that Congress uphold what has become known as Obamacare and make it work as well as possible. Just 38 percent of the public wants Congress to stop the law by cutting off funding."

 

So about 50% more support Obamacare than are against it.

Stosh - Maybe I don't understand your comment but the ACA/Obamacare insurance is priced and delivered by private industry insurance companies.

 

I checked out the ACA/Obamacare website for California and I have to say, for the first time I can actually understand medical insurance plans. They did a really good job showing you exactly what you pay for doctor copay, emergency copay, medicine copay, deductibles, etc.

[Horizon]

FYI on the jokes about essential vs non-essential, my company operates that way. I have had to lay off people who weren't essential - I could keep the doors open for less, I just could not grow. Once the economy recovered, we added those people back who were necessary for long-term growth.

 

As for the government, the Office of Management and Budget defines essential vs. non-essential this way:

 

1.) Provide for the national security, including the conduct of foreign relations essential to the national security or the safety of life and property.

 

2.) Provide for benefit payments and the performance of contract obligations under no-year or multi-year or other funds remaining available for those purposes.

 

3.) Conduct essential activities to the extent that they protect life and property, including:

 

Medical care of inpatients and emergency outpatient care.

Activities essential to ensure continued public health and safety, including safe use of food and drugs and safe use of hazardous materials.

The continuance of air traffic control and other transportation safety functions and the protection of transport property.

Border and coastal protection and surveillance.

Protection of Federal lands, buildings, waterways, equipment and other property owned by the United States.

Care of prisoners and other persons in the custody of the United States.

Law enforcement and criminal investigations.

Emergency and disaster assistance.

Activities essential to the preservation of the essential elements of the money and banking system of the United States, including borrowing and tax collection activities of the Treasury.

Activities that ensure production of power and maintenance of the power distribution system.

Activities necessary to maintain protection of research property.

[JoeBob]

1- How or when is the US gonna stop borrowing money to spend on non-essential services? Maybe this shutdown will highlight just how much we can live without. Eventually our money is gonna be worthless, so the sooner we face that we're spending too much; the better chance we have that our republic will survive. Our grandchildren already have a big enough bill to pay.

 

2- The Dems had two years, 08-10, when they controlled the government. The electorate became so alarmed at their free spending ways that they elected Repubs to the house in 10 and again in 12. The house is the division that spends money. So, yes, elections have consequences. For the Dems to now refuse to negotiate with the body that is constitutionally in charge of the purse strings is a facetious tantrum, devoid of logic, enabled by a biased media.

Horizon, just curious; where do you get your news?

 

Reid and Obama are the ones saying. I repeat SAYING, that they will not negotiate.

Not on the medical device tax.

Not on the exemptions for congress that were prohibited in the bill, but they took out after it passed.

Not on delaying the individual mandate for a year (that Obama illegally gave to big business.)

 

The Obama admin has changed the ACA more than 20 times unilaterally; but they say that they won't negotiate on Repub requests "because it's the law"?

 

Pure power politics. I just hope the Repubs stand their ground for a change and we don't reimburse back salaries to the non-essential federal workers.

[moosetracker]

1- How or when is the US gonna stop borrowing money to spend on non-essential services? Maybe this shutdown will highlight just how much we can live without. Eventually our money is gonna be worthless, so the sooner we face that we're spending too much; the better chance we have that our republic will survive. Our grandchildren already have a big enough bill to pay.

 

2- The Dems had two years, 08-10, when they controlled the government. The electorate became so alarmed at their free spending ways that they elected Repubs to the house in 10 and again in 12. The house is the division that spends money. So, yes, elections have consequences. For the Dems to now refuse to negotiate with the body that is constitutionally in charge of the purse strings is a facetious tantrum, devoid of logic, enabled by a biased media.

Sorry Democrats have countlessly said they will negotiate when really dealing with the debt ceiling and real budget.. But not over a 6 week extension to fund the government in order to give them an time extension for negotiations, because the Republicans REFUSED to sit down and negotiate over it for 6 whole months.. At that time they will be happy to discuss everything.. But, then will discuss nothing while Republicans are holding the US hostage..

 

In these negotiations they may discuss the medical device tax, but don't expect anything else from them on the Obamacare issue.. Other items may be possible.. Some believe Obama is leaning to the pipeline..

 

But nothing on this 6 week (now 5.5 week extension)..

[JoeBob]

1- How or when is the US gonna stop borrowing money to spend on non-essential services? Maybe this shutdown will highlight just how much we can live without. Eventually our money is gonna be worthless, so the sooner we face that we're spending too much; the better chance we have that our republic will survive. Our grandchildren already have a big enough bill to pay.

 

2- The Dems had two years, 08-10, when they controlled the government. The electorate became so alarmed at their free spending ways that they elected Repubs to the house in 10 and again in 12. The house is the division that spends money. So, yes, elections have consequences. For the Dems to now refuse to negotiate with the body that is constitutionally in charge of the purse strings is a facetious tantrum, devoid of logic, enabled by a biased media.

Oh yeah, asking for an extension on the debt ceiling BEFORE you'll even talk about the shutdown is really an attempt at compromise.

 

If we don't stop routinely raising the debt ceiling, the international community (China?) will do it for us.

 

The fed cannot keep spending money that we don't have.

 

But the Dems don't want to talk about that...

[Horizon]

1- How or when is the US gonna stop borrowing money to spend on non-essential services? Maybe this shutdown will highlight just how much we can live without. Eventually our money is gonna be worthless, so the sooner we face that we're spending too much; the better chance we have that our republic will survive. Our grandchildren already have a big enough bill to pay.

 

2- The Dems had two years, 08-10, when they controlled the government. The electorate became so alarmed at their free spending ways that they elected Repubs to the house in 10 and again in 12. The house is the division that spends money. So, yes, elections have consequences. For the Dems to now refuse to negotiate with the body that is constitutionally in charge of the purse strings is a facetious tantrum, devoid of logic, enabled by a biased media.

Joebob - I have been watching this train wreck coming for months, and the Senate Budget Committee, under Murray, has repeatedly asked to hold a joint budget conference. The Republicans have repeatedly refused or blocked the conference. NOW they want a last-minute conference when the gun is to the head of Americans dependent on the government.

[moosetracker]

1- How or when is the US gonna stop borrowing money to spend on non-essential services? Maybe this shutdown will highlight just how much we can live without. Eventually our money is gonna be worthless, so the sooner we face that we're spending too much; the better chance we have that our republic will survive. Our grandchildren already have a big enough bill to pay.

 

2- The Dems had two years, 08-10, when they controlled the government. The electorate became so alarmed at their free spending ways that they elected Repubs to the house in 10 and again in 12. The house is the division that spends money. So, yes, elections have consequences. For the Dems to now refuse to negotiate with the body that is constitutionally in charge of the purse strings is a facetious tantrum, devoid of logic, enabled by a biased media.

JoeBob - "Oh yeah, asking for an extension on the debt ceiling BEFORE you'll even talk about the shutdown is really an attempt at compromise."

 

Huh???? No one is asking for an extension to the debt ceiling.. What has the congress started out playing the game of "hot potato" with between Senate & the house, and what the clean CR the right now IS all about is simply a 6 week extension bill, not the debt ceiling nor the real full year Budget..

 

Currently the Republicans are now refusing to pass this 6 week extension bill, that would allow them time to go into conference to negotiate like reasonable adults, unless they get concessions to do so.. This is not an extension bill the Democrats are asking for, this is an extension bill that this currently being held for ransom by the Republicans.. Until they pass it, they can't even get to the real negotiations on either the Budget, or the Debt Ceiling.. The Republicans will not deal with the real negotiations on either the Budget or the Debt Ceiling unless they are paid a ransom for holding up the 6 week extension.. The Democrats are asking them to just pass it, and then they will be happy to go into conference and negotiate for both the real budget resolution and the ceiling debt.. The Republicans do not want to negotiate like adults, they want to hold the country hostage over a 6 week extension bill..

 

That statement of yours JoeBob says you really don't understand what is really going on.