Shutdown ?

[JoeBob]

1- How or when is the US gonna stop borrowing money to spend on non-essential services? Maybe this shutdown will highlight just how much we can live without. Eventually our money is gonna be worthless, so the sooner we face that we're spending too much; the better chance we have that our republic will survive. Our grandchildren already have a big enough bill to pay.

 

2- The Dems had two years, 08-10, when they controlled the government. The electorate became so alarmed at their free spending ways that they elected Repubs to the house in 10 and again in 12. The house is the division that spends money. So, yes, elections have consequences. For the Dems to now refuse to negotiate with the body that is constitutionally in charge of the purse strings is a facetious tantrum, devoid of logic, enabled by a biased media.

No my dear Moosetracker, I do know what's going on. It's that slow drawl in the way I talk that has convinced you that I'm stupid. We Southerners have been using that camouflage for many years to take advantage of those that underestimate us..

 

I don't have time to hunt down the actual quote, but roughly paraphrasing the Dem talking head that said it: "The battle over raising the debt ceiling coming up in two weeks. We may as well have that fight now." And to quote Obama "I will not negotiate with Republicans over paying our nation's debt."

 

All this from a man who hasn't signed a budget in five years. How many votes did Obama's last budget proposal get in the senate? One?

 

Don't let the calm in this echo chamber convince you that the US can continue to spend until our debt is twice our GDP. How do you propose we ever wean congress from the borrowing teat?

[moosetracker]

1- How or when is the US gonna stop borrowing money to spend on non-essential services? Maybe this shutdown will highlight just how much we can live without. Eventually our money is gonna be worthless, so the sooner we face that we're spending too much; the better chance we have that our republic will survive. Our grandchildren already have a big enough bill to pay.

 

2- The Dems had two years, 08-10, when they controlled the government. The electorate became so alarmed at their free spending ways that they elected Repubs to the house in 10 and again in 12. The house is the division that spends money. So, yes, elections have consequences. For the Dems to now refuse to negotiate with the body that is constitutionally in charge of the purse strings is a facetious tantrum, devoid of logic, enabled by a biased media.

If so then that comment about asking for an extension on the debt ceiling made absolutely no sense at all.. Because no one has done that. The extension is due to not passing a budget and not about the debt ceiling at all.. And no one is asking for it, it is already in play and the Republicans think they should be paid a ransom for it, and don't want to move on to either of the real fights until they get that ransom.

 

You also missed the last few speeches by the president and the comments from Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid after they walked out of the meeting between the leaders on Wednesday night.. Talk was all about sitting down and discussing and negotiating on the real Debt ceiling and Budget, once the house bring the clean CR for the 6 weeks extension to the floor where everyone already knows it will pass. The Republican lead house refuses to do that.

 

They will not negotiate with a gun to their head.. They will only negotiate when the house stop using the US as a hostage. In the real negotiations Republicans can discuss whatever they want Obamacare, the pipeline, the birds and the bees... whatever they want..

[walk in the woods]

FYI on the jokes about essential vs non-essential, my company operates that way. I have had to lay off people who weren't essential - I could keep the doors open for less, I just could not grow. Once the economy recovered, we added those people back who were necessary for long-term growth.

 

As for the government, the Office of Management and Budget defines essential vs. non-essential this way:

 

1.) Provide for the national security, including the conduct of foreign relations essential to the national security or the safety of life and property.

 

2.) Provide for benefit payments and the performance of contract obligations under no-year or multi-year or other funds remaining available for those purposes.

 

3.) Conduct essential activities to the extent that they protect life and property, including:

 

Medical care of inpatients and emergency outpatient care.

Activities essential to ensure continued public health and safety, including safe use of food and drugs and safe use of hazardous materials.

The continuance of air traffic control and other transportation safety functions and the protection of transport property.

Border and coastal protection and surveillance.

Protection of Federal lands, buildings, waterways, equipment and other property owned by the United States.

Care of prisoners and other persons in the custody of the United States.

Law enforcement and criminal investigations.

Emergency and disaster assistance.

Activities essential to the preservation of the essential elements of the money and banking system of the United States, including borrowing and tax collection activities of the Treasury.

Activities that ensure production of power and maintenance of the power distribution system.

Activities necessary to maintain protection of research property.

Hmmm, those sound a lot like powers specifically enumerated to the Federal Government and not otherwise left to the states.............

[DigitalScout]

There are some extremists who WANT the US to fall into financial ruin. It's their sick way of proving that they are right for hording guns, buying up gold, building underground bunkers and stocking up on 20-year supply of high-energy biscuits. There were a lot of preppers and tea party folk who were very upset that the end of the world didn't come in 2009-11 so they see this as their last shot at it. If the apocalypse never happens, they look like a bunch of fools and who wants to look like a fool. It's like those cults who predict the end of the world and when it doesn't happen they kill themselves.

[King Ding Dong]

There are some extremists who WANT the US to fall into financial ruin. It's their sick way of proving that they are right for hording guns, buying up gold, building underground bunkers and stocking up on 20-year supply of high-energy biscuits. There were a lot of preppers and tea party folk who were very upset that the end of the world didn't come in 2009-11 so they see this as their last shot at it. If the apocalypse never happens, they look like a bunch of fools and who wants to look like a fool. It's like those cults who predict the end of the world and when it doesn't happen they kill themselves.

RAmen......

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

There are some extremists who WANT the US to fall into financial ruin. It's their sick way of proving that they are right for hording guns, buying up gold, building underground bunkers and stocking up on 20-year supply of high-energy biscuits. There were a lot of preppers and tea party folk who were very upset that the end of the world didn't come in 2009-11 so they see this as their last shot at it. If the apocalypse never happens, they look like a bunch of fools and who wants to look like a fool. It's like those cults who predict the end of the world and when it doesn't happen they kill themselves.

"There are some..."

How many?

[moosetracker]

There are some extremists who WANT the US to fall into financial ruin. It's their sick way of proving that they are right for hording guns, buying up gold, building underground bunkers and stocking up on 20-year supply of high-energy biscuits. There were a lot of preppers and tea party folk who were very upset that the end of the world didn't come in 2009-11 so they see this as their last shot at it. If the apocalypse never happens, they look like a bunch of fools and who wants to look like a fool. It's like those cults who predict the end of the world and when it doesn't happen they kill themselves.

OHHHHH.. Thanks DigitalScout.. I was thinking it had to be in the water they drank, but if you look at the map of where the jihadist political suicide voters are, they are in a scattered dot formation all over the country.. I could not figure out how water holes were only poisoned in this crazy patch-work quilt like fashion.. But what you say explains it all !!! It's in them eating a bunch of rancid high-energy biscuits..

 

I work with someone who was a survivalist.. But, found out that last year he took a few days off from work to get rid of all his survivalist food because it had gone bad.. I don't know what he did to get rid of it, because I heard with the can goods the dump wasn't going to take it because it was so much (Don't know if that was because it was unopened and the solution was to open all of them and only take the empties in, or if he dug a pit and buried it..)

 

Anyway point is, he got rid of the stuff and is not chewing on the rancid biscuits... Must explain why he too feels, the Tea-party Republicans have lost their minds..

[DigitalScout]

I'm baffled how our constitution allows a minority in Congress to shut down the entire government. These minority Tea Party Republicans are holding our entire country hostage and the mainstream Republicans are going along and allowing them. They are extremist ideologues who, by definition, have promised not to compromise and have vowed to dismantle, not modify or fix, the ACA.

 

The fact is that the ACA is the law of the land, passed by the House and Senate, signed by the president and upheld by the Supreme Court: all three branches of government working as our constitution intended. And now the very constitution-obsessed Tea Party Republican folks are trying to usurp the constitution by blackmailing the country into revoking the ACA. If the Republicans get their way, then they will be handed a very powerful tool to do get whatever they want outside the legal process of making laws.

[Peregrinator]

I'm baffled how our constitution allows a minority in Congress to shut down the entire government. These minority Tea Party Republicans are holding our entire country hostage and the mainstream Republicans are going along and allowing them.

 

If mainstream Republicans are going along with them, then by definition they are not a minority, at least in the House of Representatives.

 

They are extremist ideologues who, by definition, have promised not to compromise and have vowed to dismantle, not modify or fix, the ACA.

 

There are probably very few Democrats who are completely unwilling to compromise on ACA - are they, too, "extremist ideologues"?

 

The fact is that the ACA is the law of the land, passed by the House and Senate, signed by the president and upheld by the Supreme Court: all three branches of government working as our constitution intended. And now the very constitution-obsessed Tea Party Republican folks are trying to usurp the constitution by blackmailing the country into revoking the ACA. If the Republicans get their way, then they will be handed a very powerful tool to do get whatever they want outside the legal process of making laws.

 

But it's not outside the legal process. All spending bills originate in the House. That is not merely a Congressional rule -- it is a Constitutional one.

 

Again, that the ACA is the law of the land, for now, does not at all imply that it can't be debated, defunded, revoked, etc. It wasn't that long ago (1974-1995) that a 55 mph speed limit was "the law of the land."

[King Ding Dong]

I'm baffled how our constitution allows a minority in Congress to shut down the entire government. These minority Tea Party Republicans are holding our entire country hostage and the mainstream Republicans are going along and allowing them.

 

If mainstream Republicans are going along with them, then by definition they are not a minority, at least in the House of Representatives.

 

They are extremist ideologues who, by definition, have promised not to compromise and have vowed to dismantle, not modify or fix, the ACA.

 

There are probably very few Democrats who are completely unwilling to compromise on ACA - are they, too, "extremist ideologues"?

 

The fact is that the ACA is the law of the land, passed by the House and Senate, signed by the president and upheld by the Supreme Court: all three branches of government working as our constitution intended. And now the very constitution-obsessed Tea Party Republican folks are trying to usurp the constitution by blackmailing the country into revoking the ACA. If the Republicans get their way, then they will be handed a very powerful tool to do get whatever they want outside the legal process of making laws.

 

But it's not outside the legal process. All spending bills originate in the House. That is not merely a Congressional rule -- it is a Constitutional one.

 

Again, that the ACA is the law of the land, for now, does not at all imply that it can't be debated, defunded, revoked, etc. It wasn't that long ago (1974-1995) that a 55 mph speed limit was "the law of the land."

But Sammy didn't shut down the government over it.

[Brewmeister]

1- How or when is the US gonna stop borrowing money to spend on non-essential services? Maybe this shutdown will highlight just how much we can live without. Eventually our money is gonna be worthless, so the sooner we face that we're spending too much; the better chance we have that our republic will survive. Our grandchildren already have a big enough bill to pay.

 

2- The Dems had two years, 08-10, when they controlled the government. The electorate became so alarmed at their free spending ways that they elected Repubs to the house in 10 and again in 12. The house is the division that spends money. So, yes, elections have consequences. For the Dems to now refuse to negotiate with the body that is constitutionally in charge of the purse strings is a facetious tantrum, devoid of logic, enabled by a biased media.

People like Moose believe we can just keep harvesting the Magical Money Tree.

[Brewmeister]

I'm baffled how our constitution allows a minority in Congress to shut down the entire government. These minority Tea Party Republicans are holding our entire country hostage and the mainstream Republicans are going along and allowing them. They are extremist ideologues who, by definition, have promised not to compromise and have vowed to dismantle, not modify or fix, the ACA.

 

The fact is that the ACA is the law of the land, passed by the House and Senate, signed by the president and upheld by the Supreme Court: all three branches of government working as our constitution intended. And now the very constitution-obsessed Tea Party Republican folks are trying to usurp the constitution by blackmailing the country into revoking the ACA. If the Republicans get their way, then they will be handed a very powerful tool to do get whatever they want outside the legal process of making laws.

In 2007, Democrats held up the budget process in an attempt to de-fund the war in Iraq. Pelosi, Reid, and Obama insisted that their House and Senate were not bound to fund a law passed four years earlier by a different Congress. Senator Russ Feingold wrote convincingly that it was the duty of Congress to defund bad policy.

 

I take it you disagreed with the Democrats then?

[moosetracker]

I'm baffled how our constitution allows a minority in Congress to shut down the entire government. These minority Tea Party Republicans are holding our entire country hostage and the mainstream Republicans are going along and allowing them. They are extremist ideologues who, by definition, have promised not to compromise and have vowed to dismantle, not modify or fix, the ACA.

 

The fact is that the ACA is the law of the land, passed by the House and Senate, signed by the president and upheld by the Supreme Court: all three branches of government working as our constitution intended. And now the very constitution-obsessed Tea Party Republican folks are trying to usurp the constitution by blackmailing the country into revoking the ACA. If the Republicans get their way, then they will be handed a very powerful tool to do get whatever they want outside the legal process of making laws.

Held up the budget process.. Not shut down the government and took the USA hostage.. There is a difference..

[moosetracker]

I'm baffled how our constitution allows a minority in Congress to shut down the entire government. These minority Tea Party Republicans are holding our entire country hostage and the mainstream Republicans are going along and allowing them.

 

If mainstream Republicans are going along with them, then by definition they are not a minority, at least in the House of Representatives.

 

They are extremist ideologues who, by definition, have promised not to compromise and have vowed to dismantle, not modify or fix, the ACA.

 

There are probably very few Democrats who are completely unwilling to compromise on ACA - are they, too, "extremist ideologues"?

 

The fact is that the ACA is the law of the land, passed by the House and Senate, signed by the president and upheld by the Supreme Court: all three branches of government working as our constitution intended. And now the very constitution-obsessed Tea Party Republican folks are trying to usurp the constitution by blackmailing the country into revoking the ACA. If the Republicans get their way, then they will be handed a very powerful tool to do get whatever they want outside the legal process of making laws.

 

But it's not outside the legal process. All spending bills originate in the House. That is not merely a Congressional rule -- it is a Constitutional one.

 

Again, that the ACA is the law of the land, for now, does not at all imply that it can't be debated, defunded, revoked, etc. It wasn't that long ago (1974-1995) that a 55 mph speed limit was "the law of the land."

Yes they are, they are blackmailing the other Republicans with threats of setting them up to be primaried. They are equally being held hostage in this case, although they do go along on other things, they are uncomfortable holding the USA hostage.

[Papadaddy]

Sad how this makes the US Goverment look outside the states, on the news in other countries.

Super Power Shutdown - maybe not the best thing.

All because of a handfull of extremist nutbags it seems.

But the german news picked up on the fact that one of the screwballs responsible was also one to open a memorial in front of cameras - schizo much?

Berliner, Grusse! It's because of "extremist nutbags" that our country gained independence from British tyranny in 1781. And a lot of us are willing to do it again, if necessary.