Eagle Coach - fact and fiction

[Bando]

If reading the pamphlet included the information you need to complete the process, you would have a point, Base. But how much of the real, actual approval is left up to the local districts and councils to implement. Hell, the process here has changed two or three times SINCE the new workbook came out.

 

We have long had a couple ASMs and myself who work with the Scouts on their Eagle projects. Before the new workbook came our, ours was a council that had a two page checklist of required touch points proposal were required to contain -- one of which was a copy of the completed checklist cross referenced with the page numbers where each item could be found. One of my ASMs is a black belt Six-Sigma instructor and he thought the process was insane.

 

Now that the proposal process has been streamlined, we don't have to focus so much on paperwork and BS. One of my ASMs is a draftsman and helps the boys with the plans for their projects (typically earning Drafting MB along the way). For a number of reasons (mostly tradition) our guys tend to do projects which include some sort of construction, so there is a fair bit of ejamacation the scouts need. -- when in your Scout career are you taught to build a picnic table or lay brick for a fire ring?

Not sure why it matters, but in a troop of about 120+ very motivated and impressively high-achieving kids (we are and always have been a big troop, even when we spun off new units to try to bring numbers down), we get about 5-8 per year, I'd say. Sometimes more, but usually never less than that. Most guys finish between ages 15-17. We'll have a group of about 25-30 new scouts every year, and by the time they graduate, there will be about a dozen or so left. And it's amazing how the seniors, on their own accord, go out of their way to motivate their buddies to finish their Eagle. We're a town with a very strong scouting tradition going back to the 1920s, and there's no shortage of great opportunities for projects with local organizations and agencies that absolutely love working with our kids. It's really a great thing.

 

And RememberSchiff, that's definitely something our scouts learn from the process. But the BSA always doesn't make it easy for them to do so, especially when there are district and council egos that can get in the way, or project agency contacts that drop the ball or do something screwy along the way. The Eagle Coordinator isn't a crutch, but a last line of defense (and occasional advocate) to make sure the scout's efforts towards fulfilling the process are successful. He hands the scout the all-important BSA packet, gives him some pointers on the basics of how it works and the right order of doing things in terms of what needs approval and what doesn't, and it's the scout's job to follow up periodically with his progress. The kids usually find a project that interests them, though if they need some guidance or a good contact or two to pursue, they'll ask, and they'll get it. Especially if the troop has been contacted by an agency with a specific need (for instance, when the local food bank we often work with was in crisis mode and desperately needed a food drive so they wouldn't have to close their doors to needy families). If scouts need help along the way, they'll ask, and they'll get it. If a kid gets a packet and disappears for six months (which sometimes happens with kids who are playing sports, doing other activities, etc.), he might get a phone call asking if everything is OK. And if there's a problem, it often gets caught early enough to not waste both the scout's and the council's time. A little vigilance on both parties' parts can go a very long way, especially with the way the Eagle process is now constituted.

 

In sum, the scout does the work, but the adults are there to help him along the way if he needs it. Emphasis on needs. Some kids are total self-starters, while some guys need a little prodding along the way. In this age group, that's normal. Not all scouts are created equal, and holding them all to the same standard of rugged individualism isn't always fair or useful. It's the Eagle Coordinator's job to know the difference, and to know how to best handle each situation. After all, we want our scouts to be successful, right?

[Eagle92]

My $.02 worth.

 

Isn't that part of the SM's job? i know that way back in the day when I was getting ready to do my project, I talked to my SM about the entire process. I admit my paperwork was a lot simpler than today's, which lead to some problems at the BOR, but the process was the same: plan it, get it approved , revise it if need it, get the revision approved, execute the plan. Any questions I had went to the SM.

[Bando]

The "when I got Eagle" thing just doesn't apply here. I finished in 2001, and the kinds of hoops the scouts are expected to jump through now are nowhere near what I had to do. Even with the newly streamlined paperwork, it's a new world out there. The SM simply isn't the point man in all cases in most troops I've encountered along the trail.

[RememberSchiff]

The "when I got Eagle" thing just doesn't apply here. I finished in 2001, and the kinds of hoops the scouts are expected to jump through now are nowhere near what I had to do. Even with the newly streamlined paperwork, it's a new world out there. The SM simply isn't the point man in all cases in most troops I've encountered along the trail.

Yes who is in charge is an issue around here. If I were to amend the Eagle Project/Application further, the first thing I would add:

 

If your District has no active Eagle Review Board in place with names and contact information clearly stated on the Council website, the troop committee will serve as the sole review board by following the guidelines stated in the Eagle Workbook and Eagle Application. It is important that there be a consistent core of reviewers who interface with the Eagle Candidate.

 

We have Districts about without Eagle Review Boards or even a District Advancement Chairman. These districts tend to use ad hoc review boards, e.g. "Tell you what, just bring your workbook to Round Table and we will round up some folk." Just awful.

 

My $0.01

[DuctTape]

If reading the pamphlet included the information you need to complete the process, you would have a point, Base. But how much of the real, actual approval is left up to the local districts and councils to implement. Hell, the process here has changed two or three times SINCE the new workbook came out.

 

We have long had a couple ASMs and myself who work with the Scouts on their Eagle projects. Before the new workbook came our, ours was a council that had a two page checklist of required touch points proposal were required to contain -- one of which was a copy of the completed checklist cross referenced with the page numbers where each item could be found. One of my ASMs is a black belt Six-Sigma instructor and he thought the process was insane.

 

Now that the proposal process has been streamlined, we don't have to focus so much on paperwork and BS. One of my ASMs is a draftsman and helps the boys with the plans for their projects (typically earning Drafting MB along the way). For a number of reasons (mostly tradition) our guys tend to do projects which include some sort of construction, so there is a fair bit of ejamacation the scouts need. -- when in your Scout career are you taught to build a picnic table or lay brick for a fire ring?

I hate the workbook. I hate the standardization. Too many professional BS'ers attempting to improve something which needed no improvement. No coaches should be needed to hold the scouts hand. There should be no hoops to jump through, no standard forms to fill out for the project. The only form that should exist is one filled out and signed by the SM when the Scout has completed all requirements and needs his Eagle BOR. /rant

[Basementdweller]

The "when I got Eagle" thing just doesn't apply here. I finished in 2001, and the kinds of hoops the scouts are expected to jump through now are nowhere near what I had to do. Even with the newly streamlined paperwork, it's a new world out there. The SM simply isn't the point man in all cases in most troops I've encountered along the trail.

That's funny bando......with your arrogant attitude and riding me about stuff.....I had you pegged at being at least 70 and not 30......

 

You should get out more.

[Eagle92]

Bando,

 

The hoops were there back then too. I also had the added hoop of a DAC asking me what I would do if I wasn't approved for Eagle. When I asked why and was told because HE didn't approve my Eagle project, I had to emphasize that A) the then DAC, who was sitting on my EBOR, reviewed it, approved it and it was executed as such and if that is the only reason for my denial, then how do I go about appealing the decision becasue it is NOT correct.

 

RS,

 

Agree completely. I prefer how my council growing up did it with a district/council rep on the committee's EBOR. BUT the challenge with that is that you have to rely on when the individual can meet. We had 1 Eagle who could not get his EBOR before going to boot camp with delayed entry, and when he did get back, the rep couldn't be there until after the deadline. So he appealed to council/national for the post 90 day extension and got it.

[Bando]

The "when I got Eagle" thing just doesn't apply here. I finished in 2001, and the kinds of hoops the scouts are expected to jump through now are nowhere near what I had to do. Even with the newly streamlined paperwork, it's a new world out there. The SM simply isn't the point man in all cases in most troops I've encountered along the trail.

If clearly articulating a point using a proper amount of punctuation, clear grammar, and a viewpoint that isn't constantly trying to find fault with everything is arrogant, well, I don't know what to tell you.

[Bando]

Bando,

 

The hoops were there back then too. I also had the added hoop of a DAC asking me what I would do if I wasn't approved for Eagle. When I asked why and was told because HE didn't approve my Eagle project, I had to emphasize that A) the then DAC, who was sitting on my EBOR, reviewed it, approved it and it was executed as such and if that is the only reason for my denial, then how do I go about appealing the decision becasue it is NOT correct.

 

RS,

 

Agree completely. I prefer how my council growing up did it with a district/council rep on the committee's EBOR. BUT the challenge with that is that you have to rely on when the individual can meet. We had 1 Eagle who could not get his EBOR before going to boot camp with delayed entry, and when he did get back, the rep couldn't be there until after the deadline. So he appealed to council/national for the post 90 day extension and got it.

E92, well of course we all had individual experiences in our trails to Eagle that weren't conventional. That's the nature of the beast.

 

What I'm saying is beyond local circumstance and personal experience, the paperwork, regulations, and restrictions the BSA continues to build into the Eagle advancement process is far and away more complicated now than it was even ten years ago. We all had snafus and problems along the way, but the complexity now considered the basic expectation from Nationals (and their increasingly confusing, mixed messages about how changes are to be implemented) only amplifies these kinds of things. Having worked with a lot of scouts who were trying to get from Life to Eagle, sat on a few dozen EBORs in the last five or so years, and seen firsthand the kinds of changes being made, it's a testament to the kinds of well-trained and patient leaders we have in our neck of the woods (at the troop, district, and council levels alike) that things still find a way to go smoothly most of the time. The BSA isn't making it any easier, as usual.

[Basementdweller]

The "when I got Eagle" thing just doesn't apply here. I finished in 2001, and the kinds of hoops the scouts are expected to jump through now are nowhere near what I had to do. Even with the newly streamlined paperwork, it's a new world out there. The SM simply isn't the point man in all cases in most troops I've encountered along the trail.

I find fault with

 

ADULT LED Program and all that entails,

 

Huge Expensive trips that clearly the boys didn't plan or show leadership in,

 

Adult's who want a high speed low drag program

 

Adult's mincing words regarding advancement

 

Overbearing parents

 

Merit badge clinics, Fair or universities.

 

Woodbadge, Jim Jones used Flavor aid for a reason. Hides the taste of the poison.

 

National Over billing events and failing to deliver on the hype,

 

 

 

Seeing a trend here.......ADULTS.

[NeverAnEagle]

My son did not have an eagle coach or eagle advisor. We saw them mentioned in the stack of paperwork he had to fill out, but it was a PIA just to track down the person who is supposed to sing off so he can start, let alone try to find anyone else. The man who signed the OK for my son's project didn't even read the proposal.

 

I've always wondered how a boy could earn his eagle by completing a project that the city didn't want, didn't approve, and ultimately removed; now I understand exactly how that happens; there isn't anyone to actually help the lads!

[Bando]

My son did not have an eagle coach or eagle advisor. We saw them mentioned in the stack of paperwork he had to fill out, but it was a PIA just to track down the person who is supposed to sing off so he can start, let alone try to find anyone else. The man who signed the OK for my son's project didn't even read the proposal.

 

I've always wondered how a boy could earn his eagle by completing a project that the city didn't want, didn't approve, and ultimately removed; now I understand exactly how that happens; there isn't anyone to actually help the lads!

Beneficiaries don't always say no to a project they know they don't want or need. Had a buddy in my troop whose project was building a little park with benches and permanent barbecues next to a local school. They said yes to the project, thanked him up and down, it looked great, and they enjoyed the park for the less-than-a-year they knew they would have it before it was bulldozed for a long-planned building addition. Never told him a thing. All that time we spent pouring concrete for nothing...

[NeverAnEagle]

My son did not have an eagle coach or eagle advisor. We saw them mentioned in the stack of paperwork he had to fill out, but it was a PIA just to track down the person who is supposed to sing off so he can start, let alone try to find anyone else. The man who signed the OK for my son's project didn't even read the proposal.

 

I've always wondered how a boy could earn his eagle by completing a project that the city didn't want, didn't approve, and ultimately removed; now I understand exactly how that happens; there isn't anyone to actually help the lads!

The Eagle Project in question was in the right of way along a city street. The local Catholic School tore out the sidewalk when putting in a new parking lot and fence around the playground. The City told them that the sidewalk had to be replaced. The Catholic School refused to replace the sidewalk because they didn't want public school kids (public school two blocks away) walking on the same side of the street as the Catholic School kids. While the city and the school were engaged in a legal battle a kid from the Catholic troop planted rose bushes where the sidewalk was supposed to be. When the city ultimately won, the roses were pulled out and the sidewalk put back in.

 

This was not the first time an Eagle project was used to deliberately go against city and county ordinances.

[Eagle92]

I know some beneficiaries do not realize exactly what the Scouts are capable of. I've seen some extremely shocked faces of beneficiaries because they didn't realize what the scouts were going to do and how well they actually did it.

[Basementdweller]

My son did not have an eagle coach or eagle advisor. We saw them mentioned in the stack of paperwork he had to fill out, but it was a PIA just to track down the person who is supposed to sing off so he can start, let alone try to find anyone else. The man who signed the OK for my son's project didn't even read the proposal.

 

I've always wondered how a boy could earn his eagle by completing a project that the city didn't want, didn't approve, and ultimately removed; now I understand exactly how that happens; there isn't anyone to actually help the lads!

Seriously that is a really stupid comment.

 

How in the world is an eagle coach going to know that the Church is fighting with the city.......

 

He will look at the project and see if it is something that will have enough hours, leadership and able to be done by the boy. thats it....

 

You understand that the project isn't really the goal.......It is nice and fluffy PR.....But is about the boy demonstrating leadership...