New Scout is a Jehovah's Witness

[gsdad]

Once you iron out that mess have his parents teach the finer points of selling popcorn door to door

 

[frankpalazzi]

Well, the original significance of the pledge was to sell copies of "The Youth's Companion" and American flags, and promote international socialism.

 

By the way, the pledge's author's cousin's book "Looking Backward", a vision of the coming Socialist utopia published in 1887 and set in the year 2000, is oddly entertaining, if a bit dry (since it's an author tract).

Yes, even the old-timers won't mention the "Bellamy Salute" because most people are or were ashamed of it after the Nazis adopted it! I judge a Flag Etiquette event at an annual camporee, and you'd be surprised at the reaction of the scouts (and adults!) when I demonstrate the salute and ask, "True or False, this is how the Flag was saluted before WW2". Fun Fact: Hitler also got the idea for SS uniforms from pictures of the Massachusetts State Police! How un-original he was, eh?

 

OK..sorry...back to the topic: I've never heard of a prohibitiion of JWs joining from the BSA side of things. If someone's religion prohibits someone from doing something, we should respect that. In the case of Scout requirements, as long as the boy understands that he is NOT pledging, but reciting and understanding, there shouldn't be a problem. For troop meetings and any other occasions, he is free to remain silent during the Pledge or leave the room if necessary.

 

Shouldn't we let common sense be our guide here?

[Brewmeister]

Once you iron out that mess have his parents teach the finer points of selling popcorn door to door

Love it...

[moosetracker]

Wait wait wait. Before you talk to the boy or his parents and tell them the "rules" based on what a few anonymous people told you on the Internet' date=' I would call my friendly local council office and talk to one of the executives about this issue. I am SURE this is not the first time this has come up, if not in your council, then in other councils. Your question might get bumped up the chain of command somewhere, but someone has to know the "official" answer. I would do that before you tell this enthusiastic young man, or his parents, what is and is not absolutely required of him if he is to remain a Boy Scout.[/quote']

 

Thanks, NJCS -- that's a really good idea. I'll start there (and report back for the benefit of others).

I would take it to my DE.. His bonus depends on getting boys into scouting, so he shouldn't be the crusty old badger wanting to give the kid the boot.. But, he may need to ask someone more experienced.. But he/she is a little bit better then just asking the kindly lady secretary who answers the phones.

 

Still I think NJCubScouter is correct.. After all we have no one here how "KNOWS" what the right answer is, every answer was a best guess.. So seems our answers were no better then him asking other in his troop, or his wife or next door neighbor.

 

When I looked it up I saw something that they could be kicked out of their church for saying the Pledge.. Given that, I would definitely not want to handle it incorrectly and be responsible for the family being excommunicated..

[NJCubScouter]

I'd be interested to hear their take on the Oath and law as well. I don't know much about the JWs but always thought taking a pledge or swearing an oath of any sort was problematic.

I think there are some groups that prohibit an "oath" but are ok with a "promise", and that is what I have always understood to be the reason why we have the "Scout Oath OR Promise". Maybe I am thinking of the Quakers? I am not sure where the Jehovah's Witnesses stands with that. If a "pledge" is prohibited, the "Oath or Promise" probably still doesn't work since it is a "pledge" regardless of whether you call it a "promise" or anything else. And then there are some groups that prohibit the wearing of the flag, and I believe the official BSA policy is (or at least was) that if religious obligations prohibit you from wearing the flag on the uniform, it is ok to take it off. I think there was even a short period of time when the uniforms came without the flag, and you had to sew it on.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Well, the original significance of the pledge was to sell copies of "The Youth's Companion" and American flags, and promote international socialism.

 

By the way, the pledge's author's cousin's book "Looking Backward", a vision of the coming Socialist utopia published in 1887 and set in the year 2000, is oddly entertaining, if a bit dry (since it's an author tract).

Or when Scout stuff in the US and the UK circa 1920s used a common good-luck symbol:

http://wednesdaysheroes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/swastika-boyscouts4.jpg

[King Ding Dong]

Well, the original significance of the pledge was to sell copies of "The Youth's Companion" and American flags, and promote international socialism.

 

By the way, the pledge's author's cousin's book "Looking Backward", a vision of the coming Socialist utopia published in 1887 and set in the year 2000, is oddly entertaining, if a bit dry (since it's an author tract).

Was there ever any uniform insignia with a swastika on it ?

[moosetracker]

Well, the original significance of the pledge was to sell copies of "The Youth's Companion" and American flags, and promote international socialism.

 

By the way, the pledge's author's cousin's book "Looking Backward", a vision of the coming Socialist utopia published in 1887 and set in the year 2000, is oddly entertaining, if a bit dry (since it's an author tract).

Swastika was a symbol stolen by the Nazi and until then was a symbol for good things like life, sun, power, strength, and good luck. It's obvious that on this medal it was used for good luck.

[jpstodwftexas]

They do not observe Christmas, Easter, birthdays, or other holidays and customs they consider to have pagan origins incompatible with Christianity. They consider secular society to be morally corrupt and under the influence of Satan, and most limit their social interaction with non-Witnesses.The religion's position regarding conscientious objection to military service and refusal to salute national flags has brought it into conflict with some governments.They do not celebrate religious holidays such as Christmas and Easter, nor do they observe birthdays, nationalistic holidays, or other celebrations they consider to honor people other than Jesus. They feel that these and many other customs have pagan origins or reflect a nationalistic or political spirit. Their position is that these traditional holidays reflect Satan's control over the world.

 

There goes there participation in the Christmas Parade, The Veteran's Day Parade, The Independence Day Parade, They will be the Only Scout Not Saluting the Flag. How can they attend a Court of Honor, after all it is a celebration to honor people besides JESUS. And Lord Forbid Boy Scouts of America's NATIONALISTIC SPIRIT

 

Can't Follow the Rules get out

[King Ding Dong]

They do not observe Christmas, Easter, birthdays, or other holidays and customs they consider to have pagan origins incompatible with Christianity. They consider secular society to be morally corrupt and under the influence of Satan, and most limit their social interaction with non-Witnesses.The religion's position regarding conscientious objection to military service and refusal to salute national flags has brought it into conflict with some governments.They do not celebrate religious holidays such as Christmas and Easter, nor do they observe birthdays, nationalistic holidays, or other celebrations they consider to honor people other than Jesus. They feel that these and many other customs have pagan origins or reflect a nationalistic or political spirit. Their position is that these traditional holidays reflect Satan's control over the world.

 

There goes there participation in the Christmas Parade, The Veteran's Day Parade, The Independence Day Parade, They will be the Only Scout Not Saluting the Flag. How can they attend a Court of Honor, after all it is a celebration to honor people besides JESUS. And Lord Forbid Boy Scouts of America's NATIONALISTIC SPIRIT

 

Can't Follow the Rules get out

Back in college late one night during exams week I was driving home in 10 below breezy weather. I had rotated my tires and not snugged them down tight enough and the lug nuts fell off and the tire slipped off lodging itself in the wheel well. The car was sitting to low to get the jack underneath.

 

Two young men stopped and lifted my car up enough for me to get the jack under it. They were Jehovah Witnesses.

 

The list of stuff they can't do is really long and scouts is one of them. I suspect this family is not very observant. Make sure they understand what scouts do and what is expected of a scout. Maybe there are less strict congregations. It seems most denominations come in many different flavors.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

They do not observe Christmas, Easter, birthdays, or other holidays and customs they consider to have pagan origins incompatible with Christianity. They consider secular society to be morally corrupt and under the influence of Satan, and most limit their social interaction with non-Witnesses.The religion's position regarding conscientious objection to military service and refusal to salute national flags has brought it into conflict with some governments.They do not celebrate religious holidays such as Christmas and Easter, nor do they observe birthdays, nationalistic holidays, or other celebrations they consider to honor people other than Jesus. They feel that these and many other customs have pagan origins or reflect a nationalistic or political spirit. Their position is that these traditional holidays reflect Satan's control over the world.

 

There goes there participation in the Christmas Parade, The Veteran's Day Parade, The Independence Day Parade, They will be the Only Scout Not Saluting the Flag. How can they attend a Court of Honor, after all it is a celebration to honor people besides JESUS. And Lord Forbid Boy Scouts of America's NATIONALISTIC SPIRIT

 

Can't Follow the Rules get out

There goes there participation in the Christmas Parade, The Veteran's Day Parade, The Independence Day Parade, They will be the Only Scout Not Saluting the Flag. How can they attend a Court of Honor, after all it is a celebration to honor people besides JESUS. And Lord Forbid Boy Scouts of America's NATIONALISTIC SPIRIT

 

Which of these are actual requirements for membership, as opposed to things you think ought to be imposed?

 

Can't Follow the Rules get out

 

That includes not making up new, non-existent rules.

[koolaidman]

While OP is off checking with pros, I propose a challenge/question: Can someone show me where, in the 2013 Requirements, or the 2013 Guide to Advancement that a Scout must perform the Joining Requirements (Scout Badge) in order to earn any rank? I've read and don't see it. In the spirit of "no more no less", does it really need to be earned?

[christineka]

While OP is off checking with pros, I propose a challenge/question: Can someone show me where, in the 2013 Requirements, or the 2013 Guide to Advancement that a Scout must perform the Joining Requirements (Scout Badge) in order to earn any rank? I've read and don't see it. In the spirit of "no more no less", does it really need to be earned?

In Cub Scouts you have to tell the oath, law, motto, etc and what they mean in order to earn bobcat and bobcat must be earned prior to any other rank. From what I've read of the doctrines of the Jehovah's Witnesses, I do not believe scouting to be compatible, unless the family doesn't mind breaking a few religious rules.

[jpstodwftexas]

Merlyn_LeRoy commented

#11.2

 

Yesterday, 04:53 PM

 

Which of these are actual requirements for membership, as opposed to things you think ought to be imposed?

Okay how would you explain how little Johnny Jahova Doesn't have to salute the Flag and say the Pledge, He never attends Court of Honors, He Doesn't attend any Events and Above all does not Have to say the Oath and Law because It is against his Religion but he is a Scout. Would you kick out the Other Scouts who did the same thing who were Not JW who followed his examples

 

Initial Boy Scout Requirements a JW can not Adhere to

1. Repeat the Pledge of Allegiance.
   
2. Understand and agree to live by the Scout Oath or Promise, Scout Law, motto, and slogan, and the Outdoor Code
   

#2 is the Most Difficult because He can not promise to Live By the BSA Rules

 

 

[koolaidman]

While OP is off checking with pros, I propose a challenge/question: Can someone show me where, in the 2013 Requirements, or the 2013 Guide to Advancement that a Scout must perform the Joining Requirements (Scout Badge) in order to earn any rank? I've read and don't see it. In the spirit of "no more no less", does it really need to be earned?

Not speaking of Cubs here. I'm talking about Boy Scouts. Some may drop their jaws when I say this, but I propose, one can earn Tenderfoot without going through the requirements of "earning" the scout badge award. It would make the JW issue a moot point.