New Scout is a Jehovah's Witness

[moosetracker]

While OP is off checking with pros, I propose a challenge/question: Can someone show me where, in the 2013 Requirements, or the 2013 Guide to Advancement that a Scout must perform the Joining Requirements (Scout Badge) in order to earn any rank? I've read and don't see it. In the spirit of "no more no less", does it really need to be earned?

Perhaps if the scout is joining for the activities and camaraderie he is not interested in rank advancement at all.. In which case, doesn't matter if he got scout rank or any of the other ranks.. He can still be a member.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Merlyn_LeRoy commented

#11.2

 

Yesterday, 04:53 PM

 

Which of these are actual requirements for membership, as opposed to things you think ought to be imposed?

Okay how would you explain how little Johnny Jahova Doesn't have to salute the Flag and say the Pledge, He never attends Court of Honors, He Doesn't attend any Events and Above all does not Have to say the Oath and Law because It is against his Religion but he is a Scout. Would you kick out the Other Scouts who did the same thing who were Not JW who followed his examples

 

Initial Boy Scout Requirements a JW can not Adhere to

1. Repeat the Pledge of Allegiance.
   
2. Understand and agree to live by the Scout Oath or Promise, Scout Law, motto, and slogan, and the Outdoor Code
   

#2 is the Most Difficult because He can not promise to Live By the BSA Rules

 

Okay how would you explain how little Johnny Jahova Doesn't have to salute the Flag and say the Pledge,

 

Is it an absolute requirement to do either to remain a member? I explained the pledge earlier.

If neither is an absolute requirement, I'd tell little Johnny Jahova that neither is a requirement.

 

By the way, you seem to have not answered my earlier question:

Which of these are actual requirements for membership, as opposed to things you think ought to be imposed?

 

Instead, you're tossing up red herrings, which suggests to me that none of your examples are actual requirements to remain a member.

 

He never attends Court of Honors, He Doesn't attend any Events and Above all does not Have to say the Oath and Law because It is against his Religion but he is a Scout.

 

When is saying the promise/oath (I'll assume he is young enough to take the cub scout promise instead of the oath) and law an absolute requirement to remain a member?

Are you adding requirements that are not actual requirements? I don't think you're allowed to do that.

 

Also, your wacky capitalization doesn't make your arguments look rational.

 

Would you kick out the Other Scouts who did the same thing who were Not JW who followed his examples

 

No. You seem to be making up requirements to remain a member.

 

Repeat the Pledge of Allegiance.

 

I already addressed that; he can state what it is without taking the pledge.

 

Understand and agree to live by the Scout Oath or Promise, Scout Law, motto, and slogan, and the Outdoor Code

 

Specifically, what can't a JW do? Assume he takes the promise and not the oath.

[dfscott]

Reporting in: DE response was "Hmmm.... that's a tricky one. Let me check and I'll get back to you." Still waiting...

 

In other news, he joined us for our hike this weekend and had a great time -- fit in with the boys immediately.

[moosetracker]

Merlyn_LeRoy commented

#11.2

 

Yesterday, 04:53 PM

 

Which of these are actual requirements for membership, as opposed to things you think ought to be imposed?

Okay how would you explain how little Johnny Jahova Doesn't have to salute the Flag and say the Pledge, He never attends Court of Honors, He Doesn't attend any Events and Above all does not Have to say the Oath and Law because It is against his Religion but he is a Scout. Would you kick out the Other Scouts who did the same thing who were Not JW who followed his examples

 

Initial Boy Scout Requirements a JW can not Adhere to

1. Repeat the Pledge of Allegiance.
   
2. Understand and agree to live by the Scout Oath or Promise, Scout Law, motto, and slogan, and the Outdoor Code
   

#2 is the Most Difficult because He can not promise to Live By the BSA Rules

 

"Okay how would you explain how little Johnny Jahova Doesn't have to salute the Flag and say the Pledge, He never attends Court of Honors, He Doesn't attend any Events and Above all does not Have to say the Oath and Law because It is against his Religion but he is a Scout. Would you kick out the Other Scouts who did the same thing who were Not JW who followed his examples"

 

You answered it yourself.. "Because it is against his religious views".. A scout is respectful of everyone's religious views.. If others stop doing things to follow his example, they would need to have similar religious views.

 

It will be interesting if he could ever advance in rank.. I tend to doubt it.. But, there is nothing preventing him from joining and being a member and partaking in what he can do..

[qwazse]

Reporting in: DE response was "Hmmm.... that's a tricky one. Let me check and I'll get back to you." Still waiting...

 

In other news, he joined us for our hike this weekend and had a great time -- fit in with the boys immediately.

My council folks are pretty good about making the phone calls. They might be able to put you in touch with someone in your district who has had the same situation, and you can compare notes. If you don't hear back in a couple of days, make another call. This time point out how much fun the kid was having!

 

Still, my knots are on working with the scout and his parents.

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

Developing citizenship is one of BSA's objectives. But US Citizenship isn't required for youth or adult members (http://www.scouting.org). There is no mention of a requirement for non-US citizens to be citizens of some other country or to be loyal to that country if they are. What do we suppose is the pledge requirement for non-US citizens? And if their country has no analogous pledge? Or if they are not loyal to their country of citizenship or are not legally citizens of any country?

 

Would a non-citizen pledge exemption apply based on religion? Not everyone thinks of religion and citizenship as two very distinct categories. This isn't just a JW issue. The Assembly of Muslim Jurists of America made an extensively researched ruling into the matter, concluding that there is irreconcilable conflict between the Islamic testament of faith and the pledge of allegiance to the USA. And yet some Muslims recite the pledge and insist their religion does not forbid it, encourages it even. Plenty of people do plenty of things that someone else knows or believes is against the rules of their religion.

 

Some religion has doctrine allowing believers to (insincerely) take whatever oaths and publicly express whatever beliefs are necessary for them to get along and gain advantageous position in the social environment in which they find themselves. This helps put a more easily accepted face on their religion while they spread it to places where it does not currently dominate. One would have to consult JW's religious texts for insight as to whether or not JW has such a doctrine.

 

If he'll follow BSA and CO rules, why not let him join? IF BSA or CO rules require the pledge, tell him and his parents. Whether or not the pledge or joining BSA conflicts with their beliefs is for them to decide. We're not obliged to help authorities of the boy's professed religion enforce his family's conformity to that religion's rules.

 

Even if the religion forbids joining Boy Scouts at all, the boy and his parents may not know or care. They may prefer to follow their own conscience on this matter. They may even want to leave the religion but be hesitant to do it. Joining associations that don't require them to pretend to believe what they don't actually believe might help them leave a community that does.

 

Many people profess a religion but act and believe contrary to it, sometimes carelessly, sometimes with rationalizations and different "interpretation." People are taught that their religion is good, true, and integral to their identity. Leaving it could cause alienation from community or family. So if a religion's requirements are inconvenient or even objectionable to the conscience, rather than openly leaving it, people may rationalize or claim to "interpret" their religion differently.

 

When we believe a religion to be particularly demanding, we often refer to such followers as "moderates" and to those who do take the religion more seriously as "extremists," "fundamentalists," or "radicals." If the teachings of their religion are good, one might suppose the extremists are extremely good, the fundamentalists fundamentally good, and the radicals radically good (whereas the moderates are just moderately good).

 

This issue is less clear than "For your son to join a Boy Scout troop, he must complete the exercises included in Section II of this pamphlet." Still, what if a family of Abecedarians told us, regarding that requirement, that their religion forbade them from turning to such a manmade source for knowledge?

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

Developing citizenship is one of BSA's objectives. But US Citizenship isn't required for youth or adult members (http://www.scouting.org). There is no mention of a requirement for non-US citizens to be citizens of some other country or to be loyal to that country if they are. What do we suppose is the pledge requirement for non-US citizens? And if their country has no analogous pledge? Or if they are not loyal to their country of citizenship or are not legally citizens of any country?

 

Would a non-citizen pledge exemption apply based on religion? Not everyone thinks of religion and citizenship as two very distinct categories. This isn't just a JW issue. The Assembly of Muslim Jurists of America made an extensively researched ruling into the matter, concluding that there is irreconcilable conflict between the Islamic testament of faith and the pledge of allegiance to the USA. And yet some Muslims recite the pledge and insist their religion does not forbid it, encourages it even. Plenty of people do plenty of things that someone else knows or believes is against the rules of their religion.

 

Some religion has doctrine allowing believers to (insincerely) take whatever oaths and publicly express whatever beliefs are necessary for them to get along and gain advantageous position in the social environment in which they find themselves. This helps put a more easily accepted face on their religion while they spread it to places where it does not currently dominate. One would have to consult JW's religious texts for insight as to whether or not JW has such a doctrine.

 

If he'll follow BSA and CO rules, why not let him join? IF BSA or CO rules require the pledge, tell him and his parents. Whether or not the pledge or joining BSA conflicts with their beliefs is for them to decide. We're not obliged to help authorities of the boy's professed religion enforce his family's conformity to that religion's rules.

 

Even if the religion forbids joining Boy Scouts at all, the boy and his parents may not know or care. They may prefer to follow their own conscience on this matter. They may even want to leave the religion but be hesitant to do it. Joining associations that don't require them to pretend to believe what they don't actually believe might help them leave a community that does.

 

Many people profess a religion but act and believe contrary to it, sometimes carelessly, sometimes with rationalizations and different "interpretation." People are taught that their religion is good, true, and integral to their identity. Leaving it could cause alienation from community or family. So if a religion's requirements are inconvenient or even objectionable to the conscience, rather than openly leaving it, people may rationalize or claim to "interpret" their religion differently.

 

When we believe a religion to be particularly demanding, we often refer to such followers as "moderates" and to those who do take the religion more seriously as "extremists," "fundamentalists," or "radicals." If the teachings of their religion are good, one might suppose the extremists are extremely good, the fundamentalists fundamentally good, and the radicals radically good (whereas the moderates are just moderately good).

 

This issue is less clear than "For your son to join a Boy Scout troop, he must complete the exercises included in Section II of this pamphlet." Still, what if a family of Abecedarians told us, regarding that requirement, that their religion forbade them from turning to such a manmade source for knowledge?

oops... posted in wrong spot

[NJCubScouter]

dfsccott,

 

 

 

Sorry to hear you got the "I'll get back to you" line from your DE, but it isn't too surprising. Hopefully he understands that there is a young man hanging in limbo (note intentional use of lower-case "l", no religious reference intended) and really will get back to you. The fact that he went on your troop hike with you sounds like a good sign generally, even apart from this particular issue. I don't think I have ever once seen a DE when he/she was not "on the clock".

 

 

 

In reading the various posts on here, one thing that stands out that it is up to the Scout and his parents, not the troop, to make sure the Scout abides by his family's religious beliefs. That means the family's actual beliefs, not necessarily the "orthodox" beliefs of his religion. So if my parents thought it was ok for me (as a youth) to eat bacon on camping trips, it was - and my father was right there eating it too. But in this particular case, we know that the Scout is aware that he cannot recite the Pledge of Allegiance and intends to abide by that restriction - he said so himself, and he was the one who brought it up. So it's not a question of the Scout/parents not following the rules of their religion, they seem to be following them - at least as far as the Pledge goes. Now, as some others have brought up, there may be other issues - what about the Scout Oath (or Promise, if that helps). What about the requirements regarding flag etiquette, folding, etc. (We do still have those somewhere, right? I'm the advancement chair but I admit I don't know all the requirements by heart). Maybe there are some requirements for Cit in the Nation, for example, that might be a problem. I think I am coming around to partial agreement with qwazse that AFTER you get the "official line", you sit down with the parents and the Scout together, and go over them what the Scout will be expected to do throughout the advancement program, including any information about "accommodations" you might get from your professionals. Then they can decide whether the program is for them.

[jpstodwftexas]

I don't have a Problem with a JW Youth or anyone willing to abide by the BSA Rules. I simply said follow the Rules or don't join. If the JW wishes and agrees to follow the Rules then they can be a Boy Scout. I have simply pointed out where problems with a Devote JW would arise, Like it or not. I never said Disallow the Scout simply because he was a JW.

 

I simply stated many reasons why a True Jw would not be able to participate in Scout. These Events include Flag Ceremonies, Christmas Parades, Veteran's Day Parades. Such as I pointed out many events a JW would not Participate in due to religious Beliefs. According to BSA Rules they would be require to attend events outside of regularly scheduled meetings.

Second Class: Since joining, have participated in five separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), two of which included camping overnight.Participate in a flag ceremony for your school, religious institution, chartered organization, community, or troop activity. Explain to your leader what respect is due the flag of the United States.

First Class: Since joining, have participated in 10 separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight. Demonstrate the principles of Leave No Trace on these outings.

 

Sit Down and List the Last 12 Months of Your troops Activities besides Troop and Patrol Meetings. List what your Troop has Done.

​Interestingly I find it kinda funny that after 1st Class attendance at Troop/Patrol activities seem no longer required beyond regular Meetings or Camp outs.

Star :Be active in your unit (and patrol if you are in one) for at least four months as a First Class Scout.. A Scout Could Attend only 4 Camp out in that Time Frame, No troop Or Patrol Meetings

Life: Be active in your unit (and patrol if you are in one) for at least six months as a Star Scout. Could just attend a Troop Meeting 1 time 6 Months

Eagle: Be active in your troop, team, crew, or ship for a period of at least six months after you have achieved the rank of Life Scout. Scout attended 6 meetings in 18 Months

Using the Logic Around here..You could say after 1st Class a Scout does not have to attend anything except Troop/patrol Meetings to be considered Active to advance since there is not a specific Number or defined number of events. Nor do they have to do it in Consecutive Months because it does not say it. Up until first Class it states activities other Than Troop/patrol Meetings and Limited the Number of Events allowed on Camping toward advancement. Camping Requirements are by Event not Days..So a 14 Day Trek at Philmont would be 1 Event not 14

 

AGAIN FOLLOW THE RULES OR NOT JOIN

[moosetracker]

I don't have a Problem with a JW Youth or anyone willing to abide by the BSA Rules. I simply said follow the Rules or don't join. If the JW wishes and agrees to follow the Rules then they can be a Boy Scout. I have simply pointed out where problems with a Devote JW would arise, Like it or not. I never said Disallow the Scout simply because he was a JW.

 

I simply stated many reasons why a True Jw would not be able to participate in Scout. These Events include Flag Ceremonies, Christmas Parades, Veteran's Day Parades. Such as I pointed out many events a JW would not Participate in due to religious Beliefs. According to BSA Rules they would be require to attend events outside of regularly scheduled meetings.

Second Class: Since joining, have participated in five separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), two of which included camping overnight.Participate in a flag ceremony for your school, religious institution, chartered organization, community, or troop activity. Explain to your leader what respect is due the flag of the United States.

First Class: Since joining, have participated in 10 separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight. Demonstrate the principles of Leave No Trace on these outings.

 

Sit Down and List the Last 12 Months of Your troops Activities besides Troop and Patrol Meetings. List what your Troop has Done.

​Interestingly I find it kinda funny that after 1st Class attendance at Troop/Patrol activities seem no longer required beyond regular Meetings or Camp outs.

Star :Be active in your unit (and patrol if you are in one) for at least four months as a First Class Scout.. A Scout Could Attend only 4 Camp out in that Time Frame, No troop Or Patrol Meetings

Life: Be active in your unit (and patrol if you are in one) for at least six months as a Star Scout. Could just attend a Troop Meeting 1 time 6 Months

Eagle: Be active in your troop, team, crew, or ship for a period of at least six months after you have achieved the rank of Life Scout. Scout attended 6 meetings in 18 Months

Using the Logic Around here..You could say after 1st Class a Scout does not have to attend anything except Troop/patrol Meetings to be considered Active to advance since there is not a specific Number or defined number of events. Nor do they have to do it in Consecutive Months because it does not say it. Up until first Class it states activities other Than Troop/patrol Meetings and Limited the Number of Events allowed on Camping toward advancement. Camping Requirements are by Event not Days..So a 14 Day Trek at Philmont would be 1 Event not 14

 

AGAIN FOLLOW THE RULES OR NOT JOIN

Again, those rules allow you to ADVANCE.. The only rules for youth that I know of that say you can not join at all is the (soon to be defunct) outwardly gay, and the atheists rules (adults have more like not having any serious convictions and not being an undocumented immigrant).. There is no time limit that you MUST make the rank of Scout by blah.. blah.. month of joining or you are kicked out..

 

So I don't see the "FOLLOW THE RULES OR NOT JOIN".. I think that is rather harsh and brittle and unwelcoming myself.. I know plenty of kids who do not join to advance in rank..

 

NJCubScouter - although I agree it is up to the parents.. Because it sounds more like they will be kicked out of their religion for not following the religions rules, rather then need to go to confession and say a few hal Mary's or just not follow them because they don't believe that part of their religion.. I think I would feel better that they break those rules knowingly rather then in ignorance. So would want to learn what I can and sit down to figure out where there are problems and what we as BSA can do to work around the issues, and what they would either need to accept in the inability to rank advance or what rules in their religion they feel comfortable breaking or questionably finagling to get any rank advancement. I would feel very guilty if I knew they could be ex-communicated for what they were doing, said nothing.. Then had them crying on my doorstep when they got ex-communicated.

[walk in the woods]

While OP is off checking with pros, I propose a challenge/question: Can someone show me where, in the 2013 Requirements, or the 2013 Guide to Advancement that a Scout must perform the Joining Requirements (Scout Badge) in order to earn any rank? I've read and don't see it. In the spirit of "no more no less", does it really need to be earned?

The scout rank are the joining requirements. they are the pre-req for all ranks because you have to complete them to join.

[jpstodwftexas]

moosetracker commented

#20.1

 

Today, 03:53 AM

That is the first badge.. I have known scout to take a year or more to earn it, no one from council came around and told them they had to leave the troop because they were taking too long to earn the patch.. This scout might never earn it is all. It doesn't matter if he never earns it, no one can or will kick him out because of it !!.... I am sure that at some place, at some time BSA has enrolled a child that for mental reasons and/or physical reason could not ever complete the tasks necessary to earn the scout badge.. It might say joining, but once you sign the application, and pay your membership fee your a member.. Once council gets the paperwork processed you get the insurance.. You can go to summer camp and on any outing scout related.. No one checks you over and tells you to 'get out' because you have not earned the scout badge. There is no time limit... Period..

 

On the other hand the openly homosexual and atheist is more then just under the Undefined "Morally Straight" clause.. If that was the only place it was, BSA could not win court battles against people who are kicked out of scouting because of it. It is under things you agree to when signing the membership application, and they can kick you out for lying on your application.

Last edited by moosetracker; Today, 03:56 AM.

 

You Will Notice it Says BOY SCOUT JOINING REQUIREMENT not RANK REQUIREMENTS RIGHT? If This Is a Rank and Not simply Joining Why is there No Alternatives for Scouts with Learning and Physical Disabilities like Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class?

 

 

 

You Know I went and Pulled up an Official Boy Scouts of America Application you Mentioned Both Youth and Adult..I looked There is Nothing about Religious Preference nor Sexual Preference on It...Can you post an application with those on it stating No Homosexual or Atheist?

 

Excerpt from the Declaration of Religious Principle

The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing

an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is

absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization

or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing

to subscribe to these precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of

America shall be entitled to certificates of membership.

 

Program Policies

Chartered organizations agree to use the Scouting program in accordance with their own policies as well as those

of the BSA. The program is flexible, but major departures from BSA methods and policies are not permitted. As a parent, you should be aware that

• BSA adult registration is restricted to qualified people who subscribe to the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle, the Scout Oath, the Scout Law, and the BSA Standards of Leadership.

• Citizenship activities are encouraged, but partisan political activities are prohibited.

• Military training and drills are prohibited.Marksmanship and elementary drill for ceremonies are permitted.

• While Boy Scouts of America recognizes the importance of religious faith and duty, it leaves sectarian religious instruction to the member’s religious leaders and family.

• Members who do not belong to a unit’s religious chartered organization shall not be required to participate in its religious activities.

The BSA Declaration of Religious Principles

(Reprinted from the 1987 printing, 1976 copyright, of the Charters and Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America. The "Declaration of Religious Principles" are found in Article IX, Section 1, of the BSA Bylaws.)

The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizenship without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law." The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members. No matter what the religious faith of the members may be, this fundamental need of the members should be kept before them. The Boy Scouts of America, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and the organization with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.

ACTIVITIES. The activities of the members of the Boy Scouts of America shall be carried on under conditions which show respect to the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion, as required by the twelfth point of the Scout Law, reading, "Reverent. A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others."

FREEDOM. In no case where a unit is connected with a church or other distinctively religious organization shall members of other denomination or faith be required, because of their membership in the unit, to take part in or observe a religious ceremony distinctly unique to that organization or church.

LEADERS. Only persons willing to subscribe to these declarations of principles shall be entitle to certificates of leadership in carrying out the Scouting program.

The Boy Scouts of America has a definite position on religious principles. The following interpretative statement may help clarify this position. The Boy Scouts of America:

BSA Religious Principles

(Reprinted from the 1992 edition of BSA's Advancement Guidelines: Council and District Functions.)

1. Does not define what constitutes belief in God or the practice of religion.
   
2. Does not require membership in a religious organization or association for enrollment in the movement but does prefer, and strongly encourages, membership and participation in the religious programs and activities of a church, synagogue, or other religious association.
   
3. Respects the convictions of those who exercise their constitutional freedom to practice religion as individuals without formal membership in organized religious organizations. In a few cases, there are those who, by conviction, do not feel it necessary to formally belong to an organized form of religion and seek to practice religion in accordance with their own personal convictions. Every effort should be made to counsel with the boy and his parents to determine the true story of the religious convictions and practices as related to advancement in Scouting. Religious organizations have commended the Boy Scouts of America for encouraging youth to participate in organized religious activities. However, these same organizations reject any form of compulsion to enforce conformity to establish religious practices.
   
4. If a boy says he is a member of a religious body, the standards by which he should be evaluated are those of that group. This is why an advancement committee usually requests a reference from his religious leader to indicate whether he has lived up to their expectations.
   

Throughout life, Scouts are associated with people of different faiths. Scouts believe in religious freedom, respecting others whose religion may differ from theirs. Scouting believes in the right of all to worship God in their own way.

 

 

Still Nothing Clearly Define about Atheist or Homosexuals... Got another Source you want to Quote as a Reference?

 

Again we are Not Talking about Advancing..We are Talking about a Scouter agreeing to abide by the Boy Scouts of America Oath(Promise), Scout Law, Outdoor Code etc..

 

BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA ...have always left it up to Individual Leadership to decide if a Youth Lives up to The Boy Scouts of America Standards...Boy Scouts of America does Not Clearly Define because they want and Need Charter Organizations to Pay Money to them. Without Charter Organization Boy Scouts of America is Nothing except a Name.

What would Happen If Units kicked out every scouter for Failure to Live up to their "Perceived Interpretation" of Boy Scouts Of America Rules...Scouters would leave and find a Unit they Liked..Simply Pay $1 to Transfer to Another Unit.

[Jeffrey H]

Respectfully ask the the new recruit if his religion will conflict with staying in the Boy Scouts. Then, when the opportunity presents itself, you can have a respectful conversation with his parents. It's possible that his family's JW convictions may be weak and they are thinking about leaving the religious group. I would accept him in the Troop if he is willing to follow the joining requirements. How far he will go with the Troop is up to him and his family.

[Peregrinator]

Wouldn't the Boy Scouts encourage a tepid JW to become more devoted to his religion?

[packsaddle]

I could try to come up with a better example but it would be difficult to beat this one....to demonstrate the mess we get into when people and organizations try to poke their noses into the private beliefs (or worse, try to control the beliefs) of others.

 

If the CO for the unit I serve wants to exercise some kind of control over the beliefs of the scouts in this unit, they are free to knock themselves out trying. But it's not in my job description. If BSA wants to continue to wallow in this quagmire, they are free to do that as well but there's nothing that says I have to do the wallowing for them. It's THEIR mess of THEIR making and they can lie in it. If a boy or a leader fills out an application and signs it and if the CO has no objection, I'm sending it up the line. And if the council and BSA want to create controversy and strife by enforcing their 'rules', I'll be glad to step aside and let them take the heat. It's not part of my job to question the beliefs of others and act as an 'enforcer' for BSA.