Camping / Sleeping Arrangements / Safe Scouting

[Basementdweller]

Females can sleep in the same area as males.. Hueymungus is wrong on that, perhaps it's a policy of his pack/troop.. If you had only a mother as a legal guardian she is fine sleeping with her child, IN THE SAME AREA as the rest of the Webelos..

 

But.. unmarried couples can not sleep in the same tent during any scouting event, period.. And - only legal guardians can sleep with a youth, period.. So you have two issues that would get you in trouble.. I know these are BSA rules, but I could not tell you were the rule is in writing. This is the closest I came.. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...GSS/gss01.aspx

go down to the section titled "Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings" look at # 8... Also look at # 11..

 

#8 ,, Male and female leaders must have separate sleeping facilities. Married couples may share the same quarters if appropriate facilities are available.

 

#11,,When staying in tents, no youth will stay in the tent of an adult other than his or her parent or guardian.

 

I have never heard the G2SS stating "parent or guardian MUST sleep in the tent with the scout.. just the one in #11.. So there is no problem with 2 or 3 scouts sleeping in one tent, but then unless they are all brothers, NO parents can sleep in the same tent, because although they are guardian to one of the boys, they are not guardian to all of the boys.. But even if the scout was in another tent with other scouts.. Still boyfriend/girlfriend could not tent together.. Yes it says leaders.. But even if neither are registered scouters, any adult on the campout is an adult leader.. This rule apply to anyone on the campout.. So father/son in one tent and girlfriend in a seprate tent.. Or scout in with other youth, but father/girlfriend still in individual tents themselves.. updated this, because I forgot to mention that if someone other then a parent/guardian comes on the trip to be a scouts adult representation.. That is fine, but they would not be able to sleep in the same tent.. So if an uncle came camping in place of the parents, he maybe is the temporary guardian for the weekend, but he is not legally the permanent guardian, so they tent separately.

 

But the women can be in the same campsite, seriously their cooties will wash off.

 

Thems the rules...

Wow KDD your council is screwed up....

 

I lovely wife wanted to camp with me I most certainly share a tent with her.......

[Basementdweller]

Ya know folks.......While it is a rule........We have to admit it is a pretty stupid one at this point...... While I don't condone live in arrangements.......

 

Lets look at this differently.

 

Johnny has two live in dads.....They are not legally married.....The men can tent together, johnny and dad can tent together, but the family unit can't tent together but yet live in a household together..

 

 

Better yet what if two men are married or the two moms are married.

 

Make it mom and live in male friend or two moms or biomom and biodad who are not married...... Lots of combinations here.

 

My rule is if they are a family unit....They live together under the same roof, cohabitant or share a house they can tent together......

 

But you get my point.......

 

So you're going to tell a boy who wants to bring his family he can't because his living situation isn't moral or wrong in you opinion......

 

think about it....

 

 

I don't have to like they way other folks live, I don't have to condone it. but what is best for the boy.

[perdidochas]

Ya know folks.......While it is a rule........We have to admit it is a pretty stupid one at this point...... While I don't condone live in arrangements.......

 

Lets look at this differently.

 

Johnny has two live in dads.....They are not legally married.....The men can tent together, johnny and dad can tent together, but the family unit can't tent together but yet live in a household together..

 

 

Better yet what if two men are married or the two moms are married.

 

Make it mom and live in male friend or two moms or biomom and biodad who are not married...... Lots of combinations here.

 

My rule is if they are a family unit....They live together under the same roof, cohabitant or share a house they can tent together......

 

But you get my point.......

 

So you're going to tell a boy who wants to bring his family he can't because his living situation isn't moral or wrong in you opinion......

 

think about it....

 

 

I don't have to like they way other folks live, I don't have to condone it. but what is best for the boy.

I pretty much agree. When I was a cub leader, I had a scout who lived with his grandma. His uncle, a gay man, I later met his partner, would carry him on the campouts and tent with him. I figured that if the grandma trusted him, that was good enough for me. I feel family can make that kind of choice. It wasn't my business to interfere.

[King Ding Dong]

Females can sleep in the same area as males.. Hueymungus is wrong on that, perhaps it's a policy of his pack/troop.. If you had only a mother as a legal guardian she is fine sleeping with her child, IN THE SAME AREA as the rest of the Webelos..

 

But.. unmarried couples can not sleep in the same tent during any scouting event, period.. And - only legal guardians can sleep with a youth, period.. So you have two issues that would get you in trouble.. I know these are BSA rules, but I could not tell you were the rule is in writing. This is the closest I came.. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...GSS/gss01.aspx

go down to the section titled "Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings" look at # 8... Also look at # 11..

 

#8 ,, Male and female leaders must have separate sleeping facilities. Married couples may share the same quarters if appropriate facilities are available.

 

#11,,When staying in tents, no youth will stay in the tent of an adult other than his or her parent or guardian.

 

I have never heard the G2SS stating "parent or guardian MUST sleep in the tent with the scout.. just the one in #11.. So there is no problem with 2 or 3 scouts sleeping in one tent, but then unless they are all brothers, NO parents can sleep in the same tent, because although they are guardian to one of the boys, they are not guardian to all of the boys.. But even if the scout was in another tent with other scouts.. Still boyfriend/girlfriend could not tent together.. Yes it says leaders.. But even if neither are registered scouters, any adult on the campout is an adult leader.. This rule apply to anyone on the campout.. So father/son in one tent and girlfriend in a seprate tent.. Or scout in with other youth, but father/girlfriend still in individual tents themselves.. updated this, because I forgot to mention that if someone other then a parent/guardian comes on the trip to be a scouts adult representation.. That is fine, but they would not be able to sleep in the same tent.. So if an uncle came camping in place of the parents, he maybe is the temporary guardian for the weekend, but he is not legally the permanent guardian, so they tent separately.

 

But the women can be in the same campsite, seriously their cooties will wash off.

 

Thems the rules...

I have mentioned it on here before. I honestly laughed at Scouter who first told me about it. I like to call it the BSA No Marriage Rule. We can't have these kids seeing married people sleep in the same room together can we ?

[NJCubScouter]

Comchair, are either of the adults in question leaders in the Webelos den or Cub Scout pack? Are there going to be other "families" there, with tenting by family rather than the Webelos sharing tents among themselves, so that this becomes more of a "family camping trip"? I am not saying the answers to these necessarily answer the question, though they do suggest some possibilities depending on how the rules are interpreted. Nevertheless, I think the INTENT of rule #8 (quoted by Moosetracker) is not to have unmarried adults of opposite gender tenting together under any circumstances, even though that is not exactly what it says. (It says "leader" but I think it means "adult", whether a "leader" or not.) And let me ask you this, can't someone just lend "girlfriend" a small tent she can use by herself? It could be put up right next to Dad-and-son's tent. Isn't that a reasonable compromise?

[fred johnson]

It is a hard dance to dance today. In this situation I'm all for the what's best for the scout and the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy. BUT ... you also need to respect that scouting unit is "owned" by the charter organization and is a branch of that organization and reflects the values of that organization. Some charter organizations want to keep things at arms length. Others may want it differently. IMHO, it is hard to show an example that contradicts what your charter org teaches.

 

As for the original posters comment ... live-in girl friend? Ya know ... Is it two month live-in girl friend or ten year live-in girl friend? Do people pretty much accept them as married?

 

We had a pack leader who brought his two month girl friend on the camp out. She came and camped. No one made an issue of it. But in our troop it would have been different as many kids are home schooled and / or from evangelical churches. It would have been an issue with their parents. No pun but Holy Hell would have been raised from the example set.

 

****************************

 

Be creative. If you think it won't be an issue, fine. But if it will be an issue, then re-design the event or find a work around or talk to them nicely.

[Vince's Arrows]

Playing it safe and just saying no seems to be the prudent thing to do here.

[moosetracker]

Wow.. Lot's of advice on "Why I would break the rules.." All sound and reasonable, and if your group is basically all liberal thinking just fine and dandy.. I understand also where you are coming from with the changing times, and you not wanting to seem like some old fuddy-duddy..

 

But the OP stated that people in his group have come to him with concerns.. It's fine to ask you CO their preference, but basically your CO can add more rules to the BSA rules, but can't decide to not follow BSA rules.. So, this is like the homosexual your group makes a scout leader.. It is fine, until someone who is not OK with the situation turns you with a complaint about it to council.. Before you do it, you should be sure everyone in the group is in agreement, and there is no one "voicing concerns"..

 

Also could become an unwanted slippery slope when you say fine to this unmarried couple for the reason that they kind of seem married by all living together anyway.. Then a year later have a father who is going through a mid-life crisis and changing sex-partners on a weekly basis wanting to bring their girlfriend of the week along with him..

 

Do what you want, follow the rules, don't follow the rules.. But, make sure you think things through when you decide not to follow the rules.

[Basementdweller]

Wow.. Lot's of advice on "Why I would break the rules.." All sound and reasonable, and if your group is basically all liberal thinking just fine and dandy.. I understand also where you are coming from with the changing times, and you not wanting to seem like some old fuddy-duddy..

 

But the OP stated that people in his group have come to him with concerns.. It's fine to ask you CO their preference, but basically your CO can add more rules to the BSA rules, but can't decide to not follow BSA rules.. So, this is like the homosexual your group makes a scout leader.. It is fine, until someone who is not OK with the situation turns you with a complaint about it to council.. Before you do it, you should be sure everyone in the group is in agreement, and there is no one "voicing concerns"..

 

Also could become an unwanted slippery slope when you say fine to this unmarried couple for the reason that they kind of seem married by all living together anyway.. Then a year later have a father who is going through a mid-life crisis and changing sex-partners on a weekly basis wanting to bring their girlfriend of the week along with him..

 

Do what you want, follow the rules, don't follow the rules.. But, make sure you think things through when you decide not to follow the rules.

Just another reason I hate cub camping....

 

Seriously..... I have yet to met a single dad going thru a mid life crisis that has anything to do with his kids let a lone scouting.....Cutting into his womanizing time.

[Basementdweller]

We had one family....aunts uncles cousins and sibs camp I. one tent ...kinda reminded me of a clown car with everyone piling out in the morning. They had 10 in a 12 man tent.

[Horizon]

All of my Webelos end up in the same tent (I have an old 10x15 barracks room tent from REI). That reduces any discussions of who is sharing a tent, and puts them all in one place.

 

How and where parents sleep or attend - I don't care. I don't check their legal status, I just tell them that the boys should be sharing tents, and the parents should be on the other side of the campsite (might not be Kudu's 300', but at least gives us a little distance).

[kari_cardi]

Wow.. Lot's of advice on "Why I would break the rules.." All sound and reasonable, and if your group is basically all liberal thinking just fine and dandy.. I understand also where you are coming from with the changing times, and you not wanting to seem like some old fuddy-duddy..

 

But the OP stated that people in his group have come to him with concerns.. It's fine to ask you CO their preference, but basically your CO can add more rules to the BSA rules, but can't decide to not follow BSA rules.. So, this is like the homosexual your group makes a scout leader.. It is fine, until someone who is not OK with the situation turns you with a complaint about it to council.. Before you do it, you should be sure everyone in the group is in agreement, and there is no one "voicing concerns"..

 

Also could become an unwanted slippery slope when you say fine to this unmarried couple for the reason that they kind of seem married by all living together anyway.. Then a year later have a father who is going through a mid-life crisis and changing sex-partners on a weekly basis wanting to bring their girlfriend of the week along with him..

 

Do what you want, follow the rules, don't follow the rules.. But, make sure you think things through when you decide not to follow the rules.

moosetracker, please share how to enforce these rules. Given that proof of marriage isn't required on any BSA forms nor is any training given other than the guidelines, I'm not sure how to identify the issue. Or is it okay for unmarried couples of any persuasion to share a tent with a scout as long as no one says anything or knows differently?

 

It's a poorly written rule at best.

[moosetracker]

Wow.. Lot's of advice on "Why I would break the rules.." All sound and reasonable, and if your group is basically all liberal thinking just fine and dandy.. I understand also where you are coming from with the changing times, and you not wanting to seem like some old fuddy-duddy..

 

But the OP stated that people in his group have come to him with concerns.. It's fine to ask you CO their preference, but basically your CO can add more rules to the BSA rules, but can't decide to not follow BSA rules.. So, this is like the homosexual your group makes a scout leader.. It is fine, until someone who is not OK with the situation turns you with a complaint about it to council.. Before you do it, you should be sure everyone in the group is in agreement, and there is no one "voicing concerns"..

 

Also could become an unwanted slippery slope when you say fine to this unmarried couple for the reason that they kind of seem married by all living together anyway.. Then a year later have a father who is going through a mid-life crisis and changing sex-partners on a weekly basis wanting to bring their girlfriend of the week along with him..

 

Do what you want, follow the rules, don't follow the rules.. But, make sure you think things through when you decide not to follow the rules.

Don't be condescending.. Of course you don't require all parents to produce their papers as proof.. You take a group that looks and acts as a family unit as just that.. But, if you KNOW they are not married due to them just talking to you in normal conversation, and you know that many in your unit know the situation.. Or if you assume they are married, then are informed by others in your unit they are not.. You act accordingly.

[Hueymungus]

Hueymungus is wrong on that, perhaps it's a policy of his pack/troop..

 

#8 ,, Male and female leaders must have separate sleeping facilities. Married couples may share the same quarters if appropriate facilities are available.

 

Thems the rules...

 

I said this: "Besides, females sleep elsewhere in seperate campsites/areas"

 

Um....what is the difference? It's seperate. A campsite can be on the other site of a trail or 15 feet away. And that's how you split hairs....

[moosetracker]

Hueymungus is wrong on that, perhaps it's a policy of his pack/troop..

 

#8 ,, Male and female leaders must have separate sleeping facilities. Married couples may share the same quarters if appropriate facilities are available.

 

Thems the rules...

 

I said this: "Besides, females sleep elsewhere in seperate campsites/areas"

 

Um....what is the difference? It's seperate. A campsite can be on the other site of a trail or 15 feet away. And that's how you split hairs....

It is not a rule anywhere that females need to sleep elsewhere in separate campsites/areas, because Webloes camping is for BOYS.. And mom DOES NOT have to sleep in a separate tent from her son if she is the legal guardian.. But, if sleeping separate from other leaders, or sleeping separate because not a legal guardian she could pitch a tent inches away from any boy or male leaders.. Or be sandwiched between two tents where men reside in each one.. Doesn't matter.. You don't have to send them 15 feet away, or to a different campsite or anything else..

 

Thems not the rules.. That's what you got wrong.. Perhaps though your co has rules to that effect, and you thought it was a BSA rule.. (I think some religion has that rule.. I remember something a year or two back where someone on this forum stated their religion required that it not only be with campsites but if they were sleeping in hotels women needed to be in different hotels or something really strange.. Like separate floor wasn't far enough away..)