Constantly complaining mom

[scouter659]

I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on something like this. We have a really boy in the Troop who is into his third year and coming along just fine. Mom and dad are divorced and he lives with mom. Mom comes down and sits through virtually every Scout meeting and that is no problem. The problem though is that she continually criticizes our program to the leaders. She also, sometimes, is interfering in subtle ways. For example, if she happens to see some random moment she doesn't like an older boy making some off color comment to a younger Scout, she will go ahead and just speak to the Scout. I may not be explaining this well but it appears to us as though she just sits there waiting for negatives. Most recently, her son and another son asked if they could sleep in a tent when the rest of the Troop was in a cabin. To clarify, our policy is that we offer that to the boys if they have been 'cold weather trained' and if they have the right gear. The first night was just fine but on the second night, the other boy wanted to sleep inside. No problem there except that now we cannot allow one boy to sleep out there alone, BSA policy. Her son was leaving early and she came to pick him up. While there, again, criticized the program saying to the leader that we should do more tent camping. She mentioned a Troop up on a hill above where our cabin was that were in tents. We are not a high adventure type of Troop but that is our program. We camp almost every single month and, in the colder months, we are in cabins except for the offer made to the trained Scouts that I mentioned. We also have a separate older boy program with leaders who are more skilled in outdoor arts. We have about 45 boys in the Troop and a large and dedicated leadership team. This person, however, is continually critical and her presence gets us down. Last year we actually sent her a letter recommending another Troop for her son where he may enjoy a different outdoor program even more. But he is still with us and he is a terrific kid. His mother, however, is constantly negative and critical. Has anyone ever seen something like this or does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle a situation like it?

[evmori]

Tell her to sign up and get trained or shut up!

[Adrianvs]

Speaking of local troop rules, here are two which may be of assistance:

 

1. All program advice must be submitted in writing to the troop committee chairman immediately prior to or following the committee meeting.

 

or (in the popular verbal Cub Scout rule style)

 

2. NO NAGGING!!!!! (this rule must be 'hollered')

[Eamonn]

While I have never yet had to deal with anything like this.

I do feel your pain.

However I really feel for the Scout.

How does a 14 year old feel when Mom just will not let go?

This Lady clearly has some problems.

Still we are not in the Mom Fixing Business.

Her problems are hers.

I would do everything possible to nudge the plc into having as many meetings as possible away from the troop room.

Left Right Hikes - Scavenger Hunts anything so that she is left sat sitting there by her lonesome. She might get really bored and stop turning up.

All the Good people will tell you to sign her up.

Sad to say I am not that good. I happen to think that she is a pain now and if you sign her up she will still be a pain.

What you might want to do is sign up the Father of the Scout.

That way you will not be getting between the Scout and his parent.

Maybe him being there will prevent her interfering?

That is of course if Dad is allowed around his son?

You sure as heck do not want to lose a Scout.

It maybe that someone (Troop Committee Chair? Scoutmaster?) has to bite the bullet and take her aside and really explain the harm that she is doing not only to her son but to the entire troop.

This can be done in such a way that she is given no room to move, but in a nice way.

Eamonn

[ozemu]

Would have to be careful that you dont make matters worse but what about giving her an innocuous job that keeps her busy and out of your hair? A job that is regular and hands on (maybe somewhere other than the Scout Hall!). Your structure is a bit of a mystery to me so I wont suggest any particular job.

 

Any ideas people?

[packsaddle]

I spend more time dealing with the adults and running interference between them (evening phone conversations usually) than for interactions between the boys. There is no easy answer to your problem because every adult is unique and you seem already to have a good feeling for the people involved. For situations like you describe, Ed's approach is similar to what I have used effectively. I thank them for their interest and invite them to volunteer to organize a troop activity. Sometimes we get a really great troop experience as a result.

I approach each adult with the assumption that I must address their concerns from step one, every time. That's why it takes so much time. When two adults are having a problem I remind them that this is not about 'them', but rather it's about the boys. Usually that redirects their thoughts. Either they get tired of me and give up, or else it works so far, I'm not sure which.

[Bob White]

I'm going to ask you to step back and take a differnent view at this. What if mom is right?

It sounds like she is concerned about the activities during the meeting. For instance, how is it she is witnessing scouts making off color remarks and the unit leaders are not? What specific criticizms does she have, are they in fact valid. Are you doing enough tent camping? What national policy says a scout cannot tent alone? Try looking at the unit from her side. Is the real problem the troop operations or the fact that she sees the problem and voices her concern. It's not unusual to want to slay the messenger when you do not like the message.

 

Self-evaluation is sometimes painful, but often brings growth. I would sit down with her and calmly listen to all her issues. Ask yourself honestly if any are valid and then make the needed changes. If she has misjudged the troops actions, explain to her how and why things are done the way they are. Support your methods with BSA documentation.

 

I wold be willing to bet that there is some truth to be found in both points of view.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

Eamonn,

Good point. But usually, these are the kind of people who won't sign up. They just like to complain.

 

Bob,

If she is concerned then she should be talking to the SM in private & not directly to the Scouts.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

I think she might be wondering why the Scoutmaster is not talking to the scouts before she does. I have no way of knowing. We have only one side of the story. I'm not saying she's right, but it is possible that she is not completely wrong in her criticisms. I'm asking that they all sit down and hear each other out. What is the harm in that?

 

Question for scouter659 and the SM. Before we insist that she go get trained.. what training have you and the SM had? Just curious.

 

One more point, Scouter659 says this boy lives with mom and is a single parent family. We have all seen this situation mess a kid up pretty badly. But scouter stresses what a good kid this is. Let's give mom some credit here. She obviously has some idea about leadership. I think you need to hear her out.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

Bob,

You might want to re-edit or repost your last post. It is almost unreadable.

 

No harm at all. I just think it should be with the SM as a one on one. She shouldn't be dealing with the Scouts directly.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Sorry I was on the run, it's fixed now.

 

I agree, but where was the troop leadership at the time these incidents were happening. How is it that she is seeing these things and they are not?

 

Your demand that she sign-up and get trained or get out is unusual to say the least. As a leader you are entrusted with her child. As a Parent she has every right to expect as good job from you as she is doing herself, and has a right to voice her concerns.

 

Funny that you demanded she get trained before you asked if the troop leadership was.

 

Bob

[evmori]

Based on what I read in the original post it sound like this person just likes to complain. And usually if you tell them to sign up & get trained they shut up.

 

How so we know she is doing a good job? You are assuming that. I have no idea what she expects from the Troop and neither do you.

 

The incidents she sees may be nothing at all. She might just be making a mountain out of a mole mound.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[scouter659]

I got quite caught up in the responses from evmori and bob whiteTo be fair, I should offer a little more information. Regarding your question of training; there are 12 Wood Badge trained leaders in our Unit. I, myself, have taken Wood Badge and just finished being a Troop Guide on Staff for the last course in our Council. The rest of our leaders have all had Basic Leader Essentials, Leader Specific Training and Outdoor Skills.

The lady's husband was 'formally' asked to leave our Troop a few months ago after running around to other significant volunteers with stories that eventually reached us and damage control was no problem because of our stellar reputation in our District and Council. He was an active Scouter and Trainer but there are several side-issues for him that caused many other problems.

So now, we have the boy and, yes, a terrific kid. Mom's presence, however, keeps us in a constant state of defensive posture whenever she is around.

Regarding our program involving tent and cabin camping; boys who are 'cold weather trained' and have the right gear can tent camp whenever they want. I do believe though, according to the guide to safe Scouting, a boy can't be left alone out in a tent when the rest of the Troop is camping indoors.

Further, we have a Troop of 45 or so and 35 to 40 are very active. Our leaders are a 'Dream Team' with no in-fighting, cliques or backstabbing of any kind.

I have been with the Troop for over 13 years and one month ago took over as Scoutmaster. That is why I posted the original message. I was just looking for someone with, possibly, a similar experience and, perhaps, some suggestions as what to do next.

Although I do have some ideas.

scouter659

...and a good old bob white too

 

[Bob White]

Always good to talk to another Bobwhite. Please do not misunderstand my questions I am not assuming guilt on anyones part, but out of fairness, there is only one point of view being represented and I feel the entire situation cannot be understood unless someone tries to understand or at least represent what could be concerns of the other party.

 

I have been involved in several such squabbles as a unit commissioner and as a district commissioner. Rarely is the unit completely without responsibiliy.

 

A few more clarifications.

With all that Wood Badge talent on hand, what has been done to counsel mom other than a letter suggesting she leave?

If you put yourself in moms shoes, why do you suppose she is dissatisfied with the troop?

If this is such a great kid, how bad could mom really be?

What specifically are some of moms complaints.

 

While I agree that in cold whether having a buddy is a good safety practice, I am pretty sure you will find nothing in the policies of the BSA regarding that issue.

 

Bob White

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

A long time ago, in a galaxy far far far away I was a new parent with the troop my son joined. On the very first campout I was tasked with looking over the boys as they gathred firewood. Well, one of the older scouts walked by me and hurled an "F-Bomb" unaware of my prescence. I stopped the scout in his tracks and asked him if that was scout like talk and what would he parents say if he talked like that at home and he had better not ever repeat that word in my prescence. And I didnt whisper this either, I got a little passionate in my tone and volume.

 

The scout shrank back and never uttered another objectionable syllable, as far as I can tell.

 

I was not a trained leader at the time, however, I would never have considered going to the Scoutmaster to say Bobby just said "F", I handled it the way I thought best. Even after training, I think I would do the same thing, except maybe control the volume.

 

In the long ago Galaxy I was the manager in a Hospital Radiology Department. I had a chronic complaining employee. I just could never do anything to please her. Even when I complied with her wishes, she would complain that it took me too long to make it happen.

The problem was, every once in awhile she made a good point, but it was tiresome to separate her good points from her chaff. But usually her good ideas were on target. I learned I had to listen to her and decide what was good and what wasnt, I couldnt just summarily dismiss her.

 

I think Bob makes a good point, maybe what she has to say is 90-95% non-sense, but can you risk if she is right 10% of the time?