Ad hoc patrols

[Eagledad]

Ok, so in reviewing the roster, some things became clear. When you discount boys who will probably fall off the roster this year because they have not been around, we have 24 active boys. So thinking back, our typical campout attendance is usually between 15-18. So we are actually pushing 75% which seems pretty typical--the problem is that we have 6 patrols as follows:

 

6 6th grade

6 7th grade

5 8th grade

3 9th grade

4 11th grade

 

Therefore, the reason we usually end up with 3 ad hoc patrols is that it reflects the natural breakdown of what the troop should be; i.e., 3 patrols.

 

I had a discussion with the SM and he agreed that having 3 patrols would be optimal and that we should let the boys self-organize into those patrols. Now this is a huge step for us--normally the troop plunks boys into a NSP and they stay together until the end.

 

Ideally we'd see 3 patrols of 8, but...who knows what will happen.

 

Reading the threads here, there seems to be as many ways of having boys organize their patrols as there are troops. I can't remember how we did it when I was a scout and if it was covered in leader training I either missed it or have forgotten it. I do believe that giving the scouts a parameter for the number of patrols desired (3) is the way to go. Yes, I've read the discussions in other threads about letting boys make as many as they want and learn from their mistakes but that's not what we're going to do.

 

So with that backdrop, what are the ideas for having the boys reorganize into 3 patrols?

Good for you guys, a step in any direction is step in learning. May I say though, if you and the SM don't have a plan, idea, vision, anything to hold the program in a fixed direction of growth, you will end up exactly the same way you have been going. Its easy for many of us to say let the boys decide, but the reality is every successful boy run program has some kind of process from the adults that keeps the program pointed to a vision. There are as many processes as their are units because to some degree, processes are a function of the troop personalities. Does your adults have a vision that helps them focus their efforts? What do you want your scouts to take with them when they leave the troop? Barry

[Brewmeister]

Ok, so in reviewing the roster, some things became clear. When you discount boys who will probably fall off the roster this year because they have not been around, we have 24 active boys. So thinking back, our typical campout attendance is usually between 15-18. So we are actually pushing 75% which seems pretty typical--the problem is that we have 6 patrols as follows:

 

6 6th grade

6 7th grade

5 8th grade

3 9th grade

4 11th grade

 

Therefore, the reason we usually end up with 3 ad hoc patrols is that it reflects the natural breakdown of what the troop should be; i.e., 3 patrols.

 

I had a discussion with the SM and he agreed that having 3 patrols would be optimal and that we should let the boys self-organize into those patrols. Now this is a huge step for us--normally the troop plunks boys into a NSP and they stay together until the end.

 

Ideally we'd see 3 patrols of 8, but...who knows what will happen.

 

Reading the threads here, there seems to be as many ways of having boys organize their patrols as there are troops. I can't remember how we did it when I was a scout and if it was covered in leader training I either missed it or have forgotten it. I do believe that giving the scouts a parameter for the number of patrols desired (3) is the way to go. Yes, I've read the discussions in other threads about letting boys make as many as they want and learn from their mistakes but that's not what we're going to do.

 

So with that backdrop, what are the ideas for having the boys reorganize into 3 patrols?

For the purposes of this particular question, the vision is getting the boys to function as proper patrols, the benefits of which are obvious and fundamental to scouting and which have been lacking because of being constantly stuck in the "forming" stage as pointed out.

 

This is one more step in the direction of moving toward a boy led model. What we hope the boys leave the troop with is the stronger ability to take care of themselves and others in a variety of life situations, while living by the principles of the Oath and Law.

 

As you point out, we need a process to point them toward that vision which, in this case, is represented by the need to form regular patrols. So, rather than simply say, "Go ye into the wilderness, formeth three patrols of thy own design, and returneth when thou knowest thy patrol name and yell," we'd like to provide said guidance....

[Eagledad]

Ok, so in reviewing the roster, some things became clear. When you discount boys who will probably fall off the roster this year because they have not been around, we have 24 active boys. So thinking back, our typical campout attendance is usually between 15-18. So we are actually pushing 75% which seems pretty typical--the problem is that we have 6 patrols as follows:

 

6 6th grade

6 7th grade

5 8th grade

3 9th grade

4 11th grade

 

Therefore, the reason we usually end up with 3 ad hoc patrols is that it reflects the natural breakdown of what the troop should be; i.e., 3 patrols.

 

I had a discussion with the SM and he agreed that having 3 patrols would be optimal and that we should let the boys self-organize into those patrols. Now this is a huge step for us--normally the troop plunks boys into a NSP and they stay together until the end.

 

Ideally we'd see 3 patrols of 8, but...who knows what will happen.

 

Reading the threads here, there seems to be as many ways of having boys organize their patrols as there are troops. I can't remember how we did it when I was a scout and if it was covered in leader training I either missed it or have forgotten it. I do believe that giving the scouts a parameter for the number of patrols desired (3) is the way to go. Yes, I've read the discussions in other threads about letting boys make as many as they want and learn from their mistakes but that's not what we're going to do.

 

So with that backdrop, what are the ideas for having the boys reorganize into 3 patrols?

Sounds good, while a vision is typically a ultimate unreachable goal, you have a good grasp of your situation. We have all been where you are at and the only other advise I can add that we learned through our humilty is for the adults to learn from the performance and not be afraid to change. Typically change is usually going to a more simple (less complicated) direction. I like to tell leaders of new troops that we tried 6 different First Year Scout program models before we found one that fit (worked) in our boy run model. I look forward to hearing how your program progresses, please keep us informed so we can learn along with you. Barry

[Stosh]

Ok, so in reviewing the roster, some things became clear. When you discount boys who will probably fall off the roster this year because they have not been around, we have 24 active boys. So thinking back, our typical campout attendance is usually between 15-18. So we are actually pushing 75% which seems pretty typical--the problem is that we have 6 patrols as follows:

 

6 6th grade

6 7th grade

5 8th grade

3 9th grade

4 11th grade

 

Therefore, the reason we usually end up with 3 ad hoc patrols is that it reflects the natural breakdown of what the troop should be; i.e., 3 patrols.

 

I had a discussion with the SM and he agreed that having 3 patrols would be optimal and that we should let the boys self-organize into those patrols. Now this is a huge step for us--normally the troop plunks boys into a NSP and they stay together until the end.

 

Ideally we'd see 3 patrols of 8, but...who knows what will happen.

 

Reading the threads here, there seems to be as many ways of having boys organize their patrols as there are troops. I can't remember how we did it when I was a scout and if it was covered in leader training I either missed it or have forgotten it. I do believe that giving the scouts a parameter for the number of patrols desired (3) is the way to go. Yes, I've read the discussions in other threads about letting boys make as many as they want and learn from their mistakes but that's not what we're going to do.

 

So with that backdrop, what are the ideas for having the boys reorganize into 3 patrols?

With 24 boys, they have two options to consider. My rule is 6-8 boys in a patrol. Now, with that being said, if they want 4 patrols of 6 or 3 patrols of 8, I don't care. 4 patrols of 6 allows for more POR opportunity and a bit of room for new boys coming into the troop to slip into a patrol. If 2 buddies join, they can still fit into a patrol together. If 6-8 new Webelos boys join up, they can form their own patrol of 6-8, or a couple of boys may wish to opt out and go with an existing patrol of 6.

 

The one option that would cause a problem is 8 new Webelos and 3 patrols of 8. Now they have to form a new patrol, they will bond and want to stay together keeping it an age based patrol. If this is not something the troop decides is good, then it's going to be a total reorganization into 4-5 patrols come end of their first year. That way everyone gets disrupted, maybe not such a good idea. The longer patrols hang together, the stronger the bonds holding them together.

 

I don't do well with math so I just say 6-8 members (I can handle those numbers) and let me know what you decide.

 

A lot of options, but my only concern is 6-8 boys, select their own leadership and tell me what they have decided, and then move on.

 

Stosh.

[Venividi]

Ok, so in reviewing the roster, some things became clear. When you discount boys who will probably fall off the roster this year because they have not been around, we have 24 active boys. So thinking back, our typical campout attendance is usually between 15-18. So we are actually pushing 75% which seems pretty typical--the problem is that we have 6 patrols as follows:

 

6 6th grade

6 7th grade

5 8th grade

3 9th grade

4 11th grade

 

Therefore, the reason we usually end up with 3 ad hoc patrols is that it reflects the natural breakdown of what the troop should be; i.e., 3 patrols.

 

I had a discussion with the SM and he agreed that having 3 patrols would be optimal and that we should let the boys self-organize into those patrols. Now this is a huge step for us--normally the troop plunks boys into a NSP and they stay together until the end.

 

Ideally we'd see 3 patrols of 8, but...who knows what will happen.

 

Reading the threads here, there seems to be as many ways of having boys organize their patrols as there are troops. I can't remember how we did it when I was a scout and if it was covered in leader training I either missed it or have forgotten it. I do believe that giving the scouts a parameter for the number of patrols desired (3) is the way to go. Yes, I've read the discussions in other threads about letting boys make as many as they want and learn from their mistakes but that's not what we're going to do.

 

So with that backdrop, what are the ideas for having the boys reorganize into 3 patrols?

A thought to consider as you work through this with SM:

 

One of the issues/inconsistencies that we recognized that we had as a troop was that awards/recognitions were typically individual based (rank advancement, merit badges), yet one of the aims of scouting is citizenship. In order to move towards the vision that the adults have for properly functioning patrols, patrol based behaviour needs to be rewarded. When all incentives are individual incentives, then patrol cohesiveness isn't fostered. (In my opinion, the advancement method doesn't do much to promote patrol cohesiveness). We needed to create reasons for them to pull together as patrols and not just as collections of individuals.

 

Consider recognizing "best patrol" at courts of honor. You will need to determine what that is. Perhaps patrols earning points for any or all of the following:

winning the inter-patrol competition at troop meetings; winning inter-patrol competitions on campouts; Clean and neat patrol campsite for the weekend; patrol organized and run service project; patrol participation in troop service project; First troop to be packed up, patrol campsite policed and cleaned, and all scouts properly dressed and ready to leave at the conclusion of a campsite; best patrol meal on campout as determined by the SPL (no ties), All patrol members properly uniformed at meeting/campout/activity; any patrol that have all members packed and in vehicle ready to leave for a campout by the designated leave time; patrol with x% members in attendance at meeting/activity; has patrol flag with them at meeting/event etc. - you can pick anything that is consistent with your vision of a properly functioning patrol.

Pick a suitable reward. Traveling trophy; lunch provided by SM at next campout; popcorn for the winning patrol at the COH, winning patrol gets served refreshments first at COH, totem to add to patrol flag, etc.

You can discuss this with PLC; then give guidance as the scouts organize into patrols. I would not be surprised for the scouts to self organize into roughly age-based patrols, as that is what is familiar to them. familiar is comforting; unfamiliar is scary. Whatever they come back with, ask Socratic type questions to help them move towards your vision: i.e. "Do you think that distribution will fair to all patrols at inter-patrol competitions?" would be a great question if they come back with age based patrols.

 

Good luck; you are asking the right questions.

[Brewmeister]

Ok, so in reviewing the roster, some things became clear. When you discount boys who will probably fall off the roster this year because they have not been around, we have 24 active boys. So thinking back, our typical campout attendance is usually between 15-18. So we are actually pushing 75% which seems pretty typical--the problem is that we have 6 patrols as follows:

 

6 6th grade

6 7th grade

5 8th grade

3 9th grade

4 11th grade

 

Therefore, the reason we usually end up with 3 ad hoc patrols is that it reflects the natural breakdown of what the troop should be; i.e., 3 patrols.

 

I had a discussion with the SM and he agreed that having 3 patrols would be optimal and that we should let the boys self-organize into those patrols. Now this is a huge step for us--normally the troop plunks boys into a NSP and they stay together until the end.

 

Ideally we'd see 3 patrols of 8, but...who knows what will happen.

 

Reading the threads here, there seems to be as many ways of having boys organize their patrols as there are troops. I can't remember how we did it when I was a scout and if it was covered in leader training I either missed it or have forgotten it. I do believe that giving the scouts a parameter for the number of patrols desired (3) is the way to go. Yes, I've read the discussions in other threads about letting boys make as many as they want and learn from their mistakes but that's not what we're going to do.

 

So with that backdrop, what are the ideas for having the boys reorganize into 3 patrols?

Good advice all and some good thoughts to ponder.

 

Can we drill down one more level to the pragmatic? So, you are at the next troop meeting and it is time to reorganize the patrols. You do...what? This is where I am stuck.

[qwazse]

Ok, so in reviewing the roster, some things became clear. When you discount boys who will probably fall off the roster this year because they have not been around, we have 24 active boys. So thinking back, our typical campout attendance is usually between 15-18. So we are actually pushing 75% which seems pretty typical--the problem is that we have 6 patrols as follows:

 

6 6th grade

6 7th grade

5 8th grade

3 9th grade

4 11th grade

 

Therefore, the reason we usually end up with 3 ad hoc patrols is that it reflects the natural breakdown of what the troop should be; i.e., 3 patrols.

 

I had a discussion with the SM and he agreed that having 3 patrols would be optimal and that we should let the boys self-organize into those patrols. Now this is a huge step for us--normally the troop plunks boys into a NSP and they stay together until the end.

 

Ideally we'd see 3 patrols of 8, but...who knows what will happen.

 

Reading the threads here, there seems to be as many ways of having boys organize their patrols as there are troops. I can't remember how we did it when I was a scout and if it was covered in leader training I either missed it or have forgotten it. I do believe that giving the scouts a parameter for the number of patrols desired (3) is the way to go. Yes, I've read the discussions in other threads about letting boys make as many as they want and learn from their mistakes but that's not what we're going to do.

 

So with that backdrop, what are the ideas for having the boys reorganize into 3 patrols?

When I was thinking of recognition, I was thinking of things less formal ... things like:

"I really liked how your Foxes handled formations Saturday, would you provide the color guard for tonight's opening?"

"Bears, since you nailed the knot requirements for everyone in your patrol (including the Turtles you adopted) last weekend, how about picking what our next challenge will be?"

"Crows, that was a side-splitting skit! Will you be our program patrol for the month?"

 

Sure you could have little totems for success in this, that, or the other thing. And the boys can hang them on their patrol flag with pride. But, I think the best recognition is appropriate responsibilities. And yes, it might be "Apes, you turned in a messy cook kit, so tonight I need you to report to the QM and help him polish a few pans!" But, I'm pretty sure most of the time the SM will have nothing but good words for his boys!

[Venividi]

Ok, so in reviewing the roster, some things became clear. When you discount boys who will probably fall off the roster this year because they have not been around, we have 24 active boys. So thinking back, our typical campout attendance is usually between 15-18. So we are actually pushing 75% which seems pretty typical--the problem is that we have 6 patrols as follows:

 

6 6th grade

6 7th grade

5 8th grade

3 9th grade

4 11th grade

 

Therefore, the reason we usually end up with 3 ad hoc patrols is that it reflects the natural breakdown of what the troop should be; i.e., 3 patrols.

 

I had a discussion with the SM and he agreed that having 3 patrols would be optimal and that we should let the boys self-organize into those patrols. Now this is a huge step for us--normally the troop plunks boys into a NSP and they stay together until the end.

 

Ideally we'd see 3 patrols of 8, but...who knows what will happen.

 

Reading the threads here, there seems to be as many ways of having boys organize their patrols as there are troops. I can't remember how we did it when I was a scout and if it was covered in leader training I either missed it or have forgotten it. I do believe that giving the scouts a parameter for the number of patrols desired (3) is the way to go. Yes, I've read the discussions in other threads about letting boys make as many as they want and learn from their mistakes but that's not what we're going to do.

 

So with that backdrop, what are the ideas for having the boys reorganize into 3 patrols?

If it was me, I wouldn't reorganize patrols at the next patrol meeting, because the groundwork hasn't yet been laid.

One possible way:

Have meeting with SM, CC, AC, key ASM's to dicsuss what you are trying to do. Discuss their ideas and concerns so that all are on same page.

Talk to SPL about observations that the troop really isnt using the patrol method, there are no inter-patrol competitions, etc. and that you would like to add this to the agenda at his next PLC meeting.

At next PLC meeting, pose the problem to the boys. I would use the inter-patrol competition as the hook, because boys love games and love to compete. Point out that the BSA program includes interpatrol competitions. That the agenda planner that they use to plan meetings has a spot for inter-patrol competition, that the council's Jr Leader Training taught interpatrol competition, and that you want their ideas on how to implement it. Give some guidelines: patrols need to be structured so that teams (i.e. patrols) are fair. That each person should have one or two buddies in the patrol that he is in. Let the PLC sell it to the rest of the troop. boys work it out with the guidelines provided. If things look lopsided, ask if they really think it is fair.

 

You may need to write off the high-school age folks. They may not be willing to change, though they may surprise you.

 

I agree with qwazse's suggestion for informal recognitions; as an addition to rather than a substitute for a) bragging rights after winning that night's inter-patrol competition and b) keeping score between COH's and recognizing the patrol with something that the boys value. I think that competitions are one of the most effective, yet least used ways to engage the boys; for motivation to continue to practice skills that were signed off long ago, for working together as a team, etc.

[Thelopais]

I don't have aged based patrols. I require either the PL or APL at every patrol activity (camping is one of them). For non leadership positions I require scouts to go on half the campouts and half the service projects if they want to be in a patrol. Exceptions are only made for acts of God. Homework is not an act of God. Band practice is not. Divorced parents are. Scouts have time to be in sports and other activities, they just need to think ahead a bit. We've had these expectations for about a year now and attendance is up and attrition is no different. More kids are having fun. Teamwork is much better. The problem scouts left or are no longer a problem. I will only allow combined patrols if there is only one in a patrol going.

I have contemplated requiring the PL or APL to be present or the whole patrol doesn't go. At the same time I want to see how the Boys respond to their leaders when they don't show up. During our last election one of the Scouts who was running was asked if he was going to start showing up more on outings if he was elected.

 

In some ways I can see that rule having more of an impact on the parents not adjusting their son's priority elsewhere. As well as helping them understand the importance of the PL/APL

[King Ding Dong]

I don't have aged based patrols. I require either the PL or APL at every patrol activity (camping is one of them). For non leadership positions I require scouts to go on half the campouts and half the service projects if they want to be in a patrol. Exceptions are only made for acts of God. Homework is not an act of God. Band practice is not. Divorced parents are. Scouts have time to be in sports and other activities, they just need to think ahead a bit. We've had these expectations for about a year now and attendance is up and attrition is no different. More kids are having fun. Teamwork is much better. The problem scouts left or are no longer a problem. I will only allow combined patrols if there is only one in a patrol going.

I appreciate the goal, but as a parent if my son was forced to stay behind I would be out of that troop immediately.

[Stosh]

I don't have aged based patrols. I require either the PL or APL at every patrol activity (camping is one of them). For non leadership positions I require scouts to go on half the campouts and half the service projects if they want to be in a patrol. Exceptions are only made for acts of God. Homework is not an act of God. Band practice is not. Divorced parents are. Scouts have time to be in sports and other activities, they just need to think ahead a bit. We've had these expectations for about a year now and attendance is up and attrition is no different. More kids are having fun. Teamwork is much better. The problem scouts left or are no longer a problem. I will only allow combined patrols if there is only one in a patrol going.

You can't punish one kid because of the actions of another. I'm with BDD on this one.

 

Stosh

[MattR]

I don't have aged based patrols. I require either the PL or APL at every patrol activity (camping is one of them). For non leadership positions I require scouts to go on half the campouts and half the service projects if they want to be in a patrol. Exceptions are only made for acts of God. Homework is not an act of God. Band practice is not. Divorced parents are. Scouts have time to be in sports and other activities, they just need to think ahead a bit. We've had these expectations for about a year now and attendance is up and attrition is no different. More kids are having fun. Teamwork is much better. The problem scouts left or are no longer a problem. I will only allow combined patrols if there is only one in a patrol going.

I'd still let the scouts camp, and one of them just might be a new patrol leader.

[5yearscouter]

I've see patrols organized a lot of time, since our old SM used to have the boys try to reorg patrols every 6 mos talk about no patrol unity....

 

 

The boys actually got together and outvoted the adults that they wanted patrols to stay together for at least a year, and then only fix patrols that were broken. So that's been better, lots and lots better. retention is up, but not so sure about attendance on outings, as they still tend toward ad hoc patrols.

 

What we recommended the last couple times was for each scout to go sit by someone he wants to tent with, someone who goes camping on the same kinds of activities they usually do. and often they ended up in clumps of 4. Then to have those 4 make sure they were with people they'd want to hang out at mtgs with and then grabbed a few others. some of the social butterflies had difficulties deciding which group to go with. some of hte struggling non-social scouts grabbed onto to their best buddy for life and then the two of them went looking for kindred spirits. Most of the patrols are primarily aged based, where the scouts are the same age, enjoy the same sports, movies, games, songs, and are at the same maturity level. some scouts are up a year or two and some scouts are down a year or two based on who they've made friends with. that is one advantage of ad hoc patrols occassionally, the scouts get out of their comfort zone, meet someone new that's older or younger and may find a lifelong friend.

 

I'd say if you were going to always do ad hoc patrols, to try to make the best of it, have the scouts combine the same two patrols on each campout. so the eagles are always with the mountain men to be the mountain eagles, and the dragons are always with the badgers to be the badger riders. As a matter of fact those patrols were ad hoc recombined patrols on several outings last year, and they are now recombined patrols due to loss/moving scouts/aging out, and the scouts are doing well in those 2 patrols that used to be 4 weak patrols.

 

[DuctTape]

A patrol is a gang of boys who do scouting things together. Too often we focus on numbers or ages instead of who the boys want to be with and what they want to do. If a troop has many instances of little participation, perhaps it is the activities being planned that is the problem? I have no problem with a patrol in which 2 boys show up for the campout. However, I would start with encouraging the patrols to plan activities, camping trips etc... that they want to do instead of what the adults have planned as a troop. I am not suggesting that ones troop isn't boy led, but it may not be patrol based if all the activities are done at the troop level.

[5yearscouter]

A patrol is a gang of boys who do scouting things together. Too often we focus on numbers or ages instead of who the boys want to be with and what they want to do. If a troop has many instances of little participation' date=' perhaps it is the activities being planned that is the problem? I have no problem with a patrol in which 2 boys show up for the campout. However, I would start with encouraging the patrols to plan activities, camping trips etc... that they want to do instead of what the adults have planned as a troop. I am not suggesting that ones troop isn't boy led, but it may not be patrol based if all the activities are done at the troop level.[/quote']

 

So if only some boys are going on campouts,

and a patrol is a gang of boys who do scouting/outings together.

That means the boys that go on campouts the most should be in patrols together, doesn't it?

so maybe that's the problem, the patrols are based on who likes to hang together in the regular meetings, but the meat and potatoes of scouting occurs on the outings, so the patrols should really be formed on a campout, with those boys.

The ones who ONLY go to meetinngs, well maybe they should be in a patrol together, or reevaluate why they are actually in scouting if they don't like outings.