Policy changes due to the membership vote

[click23]

Well, actually there won't be any changes, just a few, vague guidelines.

 

NJCubScouter stated in another thread

 

There have been some comments in this thread on the idea that the YP guidelines may be modified as a result of the change being made to the youth membership policy. It appears that the guidelines will not be modified. There is a document on the BSA web site (dated August 2013) that contains guidance for units on implementing the policy change. (I am not sure what the BSA has done to make sure people are aware of this information, other than putting it on their own web site. I have not seen any discussion of it in this forum.) I tried to cut and paste parts of this document but it is formatted in a way that makes that very difficult - for me, at least. Maybe someone else can figure it out.

 

Suffice it to say that this document contains some statements that are going to be viewed differently by different people in this forum. On the "tenting" issue, for example, it basically says that the local units can figure out the tenting arrangements for themselves, which is what I have been saying for years. The whole theme of the document is that very little will change. There is a question in the "FAQ" about to do if a Scout tells you he is attracted to persons of his own gender, and I am pleased to see that the answer makes fairly clear that such a statement does NOT amount to "flaunting" of a Scout's orientation. In other words, a Scout can be openly gay as long as all that's involved is talking. That is my interpretation, anyway.

 

A discussion of this document probably should be in its own thread, but here is the document: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/tr...tation_FAQ.pdf

 

​This document states:

"This change in membership standards is not a youth protection issue. To consider it a youth protection issue would lead one to believe that sexual abuse and victimization is considered inherent to same-sex attraction. This is not the case.

 

Based on this should all of the references to coed actives(latrines, showering, tenting, etc.) in the G2SS should be removed because that could lead one to believe that sexual abuse and victimization is considered inherent to opposite-sex attraction. While the document gives leeway to leaders on how they address these issues, it does not give firm rules.

 

This is just nonsense, but it is exactly what I thought we were going to get from national.

[koolaidman]

-----yup-----

[walk in the woods]

Well, at least we know now.

[fred johnson]

It took me a minute to understand the comment direction of the author. This is really a mess but it's a mess that society is in now, not just scouts. All the rules are up in the air.

 

Heck, if you have someone who has declared a homosexual attraction, then the kid that has the gym locker next to the other kid is both stressed by the situation (not just a false perception or a fault of the kid) but also faces some very personal jokes and comments by others in his gym class even if he is not involved in any way other than having a near by locker. But then again, most schools are now removing the grading requirement that you showering after gym is a required part of the class.

 

Same for scouts. If you have an openly gay scout, I could never direct a scout to share a tent with them. That would be wrong same as directing a female scout to share a tent with a male scout. And it is all the exact same issues. Awkward situations. Mean jokes. Misunderstandings. And also real chance that a mis-balance of power could cause one to be pressured by the other.

 

Perhaps the only real choice now is that everyone uses one-person tents or larger group tents like other nations use. That seems like the most reasonable situation now.

[Nike]

Bullying and teasing, no matter why, should not be tolerated. Therefore, teasing a kid who has a gym locker next to another kid known to be gay should simply not be tolerated by adults or other youth, especially the older youth in a group. The guidelines clearly state that preferences in sleeping arrangements should be respected, youth with greater than 3 years age difference should not tent together, and that sexual conduct of any kind is absolutely not permitted within the context of Scouting.

 

We get the behaviour we expect, for the most part.

 

I know that as a mom, this doesn't look very difficult, but that many of you have had different experiences as both youth and adults.

[moosetracker]

Why do you need a one-person tent NOW because there may be a gay scout in your troop you don't know about.. That possibility has been around for forever !.. Because now we are allowing opening gay scouts you are NOW worried about the homosexuals that are in the closet?

 

If it is teasing and harassment you are worried about, then ask your scouts what policy they would like to employ.. I suggested a separate tent for the openly gay scout due basically to the fact we have two man tents and basically due to teasing.. But, others said they have had this discussion with their scouts are much less concerned about it, and the kids in there troop are way more mature on the subject then I personally would give them credit for. So, if that is the case, that is great.. if that is not the case give a separate tent to the openly gay kid.. But don't now start boxing shadows and thinking every scout in your troop is a homosexual in the closet..

[qwazse]

It took me a minute to understand the comment direction of the author. This is really a mess but it's a mess that society is in now, not just scouts. All the rules are up in the air.

 

Heck, if you have someone who has declared a homosexual attraction, then the kid that has the gym locker next to the other kid is both stressed by the situation (not just a false perception or a fault of the kid) but also faces some very personal jokes and comments by others in his gym class even if he is not involved in any way other than having a near by locker. But then again, most schools are now removing the grading requirement that you showering after gym is a required part of the class.

 

Same for scouts. If you have an openly gay scout, I could never direct a scout to share a tent with them. That would be wrong same as directing a female scout to share a tent with a male scout. And it is all the exact same issues. Awkward situations. Mean jokes. Misunderstandings. And also real chance that a mis-balance of power could cause one to be pressured by the other.

 

Perhaps the only real choice now is that everyone uses one-person tents or larger group tents like other nations use. That seems like the most reasonable situation now.

You mean like the personal offenses I endured because I wouldn't back down from befriending the grubby, potentially gay, or gender-confused kids in class?

I finally applied Mamma's advice. "Stop cryin. Get big." And kept my friends. Maybe that offended the Klansmen among them. But it was clear that I was not about to be bothered. (Not flinching when punched helped a little too.)

 

I don't direct scouts to share tents. If a guy or girl's bothered about ANYONE whom they tent with, we got plenty of open sky.

[NJCubScouter]

Click, I do not understand why you would WANT "firm rules" from National. National is basically saying, "figure it out for yourselves based on the situation in your own unit." I think that is the way it should be.

 

 

 

And I have to ask, how many openly gay Scouts do you think you are going to have in your troop after this policy takes effect on Jan. 1? In other words, is this an issue you are actually going to have?

[walk in the woods]

Click, I do not understand why you would WANT "firm rules" from National. National is basically saying, "figure it out for yourselves based on the situation in your own unit." I think that is the way it should be.

 

 

 

And I have to ask, how many openly gay Scouts do you think you are going to have in your troop after this policy takes effect on Jan. 1? In other words, is this an issue you are actually going to have?

If I turn your question around, why do we need firm rules on male/female tenting and facilities in Venturing? Why not let the individual units sort it out for themselves? We have a prohibition against sexual activity of any sort so why the additional rules?

[ForTheBoys]

I agree that National will probably not provide any rules or guidelines for implementing the policy change. So I ask all of you, what do you plan to do come Jan 1st? Will it be "business as usual"? Will you hold a meeting for all parents to inform them of the change? Will you use a Scoutmaster Minute to inform the boys?

 

For me personally I wasn't actually aware of the membership policy when my son and I first joined Cub Scouting 5 years ago. I learned about it after the 2 year project that maintained the previous decisions, but that was only due to my involvement at the Roundtables. I think most parents who are not leaders didn't know the full story then and may not come Jan 1st. save for what they hear in the news media.

 

When a boy joins a Troop, Pack or Crew do you read the membership policy to them?

 

So, are we unit leaders obligated to tell parents or boys how the membership change will be implemented in our unit? If we are, do we allow a discussion on sexual orientation with the boys?

 

Oh, the joys of leadership.

FTB

[King Ding Dong]

I agree that National will probably not provide any rules or guidelines for implementing the policy change. So I ask all of you, what do you plan to do come Jan 1st? Will it be "business as usual"? Will you hold a meeting for all parents to inform them of the change? Will you use a Scoutmaster Minute to inform the boys?

 

For me personally I wasn't actually aware of the membership policy when my son and I first joined Cub Scouting 5 years ago. I learned about it after the 2 year project that maintained the previous decisions, but that was only due to my involvement at the Roundtables. I think most parents who are not leaders didn't know the full story then and may not come Jan 1st. save for what they hear in the news media.

 

When a boy joins a Troop, Pack or Crew do you read the membership policy to them?

 

So, are we unit leaders obligated to tell parents or boys how the membership change will be implemented in our unit? If we are, do we allow a discussion on sexual orientation with the boys?

 

Oh, the joys of leadership.

FTB

My unit is in Todd Akins district to give you an idea of the mentality around here. Business as usual. If someone wants to talk about it, we can talk about it. It is one of those things the adults loose sleep over not the Scouts.

 

We had a few parents huffing and puffing in the Pack last spring, interestingly they are still around.

[fred johnson]

It took me a minute to understand the comment direction of the author. This is really a mess but it's a mess that society is in now, not just scouts. All the rules are up in the air.

 

Heck, if you have someone who has declared a homosexual attraction, then the kid that has the gym locker next to the other kid is both stressed by the situation (not just a false perception or a fault of the kid) but also faces some very personal jokes and comments by others in his gym class even if he is not involved in any way other than having a near by locker. But then again, most schools are now removing the grading requirement that you showering after gym is a required part of the class.

 

Same for scouts. If you have an openly gay scout, I could never direct a scout to share a tent with them. That would be wrong same as directing a female scout to share a tent with a male scout. And it is all the exact same issues. Awkward situations. Mean jokes. Misunderstandings. And also real chance that a mis-balance of power could cause one to be pressured by the other.

 

Perhaps the only real choice now is that everyone uses one-person tents or larger group tents like other nations use. That seems like the most reasonable situation now.

Qwazse ... well you were a better teenager than most. Most teenagers are just trying to get by and not yet ready to stand up to hard situations.

[fred johnson]

I agree that National will probably not provide any rules or guidelines for implementing the policy change. So I ask all of you, what do you plan to do come Jan 1st? Will it be "business as usual"? Will you hold a meeting for all parents to inform them of the change? Will you use a Scoutmaster Minute to inform the boys?

 

For me personally I wasn't actually aware of the membership policy when my son and I first joined Cub Scouting 5 years ago. I learned about it after the 2 year project that maintained the previous decisions, but that was only due to my involvement at the Roundtables. I think most parents who are not leaders didn't know the full story then and may not come Jan 1st. save for what they hear in the news media.

 

When a boy joins a Troop, Pack or Crew do you read the membership policy to them?

 

So, are we unit leaders obligated to tell parents or boys how the membership change will be implemented in our unit? If we are, do we allow a discussion on sexual orientation with the boys?

 

Oh, the joys of leadership.

FTB

Business as usual. No announcements. Doesn't affect the scouts. Only becomes an issue when someone wants to make it an issue from either political side. At that point, we'll ask them to knock it off or leave.

[walk in the woods]

Click, I do not understand why you would WANT "firm rules" from National. National is basically saying, "figure it out for yourselves based on the situation in your own unit." I think that is the way it should be.

 

 

 

And I have to ask, how many openly gay Scouts do you think you are going to have in your troop after this policy takes effect on Jan. 1? In other words, is this an issue you are actually going to have?

Another reason to have some guidelines is I'd rather not be the unit that ends up on the NBC5Chicago News while the unit is trying to figure it out...

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/elgin-gay-boy-scout-steven-palewski-213239131.html.

 

FWIW, this type of situation is why I believe some charters are walking away.

[NJCubScouter]

I agree that National will probably not provide any rules or guidelines for implementing the policy change. So I ask all of you, what do you plan to do come Jan 1st? Will it be "business as usual"? Will you hold a meeting for all parents to inform them of the change? Will you use a Scoutmaster Minute to inform the boys?

 

For me personally I wasn't actually aware of the membership policy when my son and I first joined Cub Scouting 5 years ago. I learned about it after the 2 year project that maintained the previous decisions, but that was only due to my involvement at the Roundtables. I think most parents who are not leaders didn't know the full story then and may not come Jan 1st. save for what they hear in the news media.

 

When a boy joins a Troop, Pack or Crew do you read the membership policy to them?

 

So, are we unit leaders obligated to tell parents or boys how the membership change will be implemented in our unit? If we are, do we allow a discussion on sexual orientation with the boys?

 

Oh, the joys of leadership.

FTB

As the advancement coordinator for my troop, this is "somebody else's problem." I could bring it up in my capacity as a committee member, but I don't see any reason to. No other leader, committee member or parent has mentioned that they have any concern about it, as far as I am aware. None of the Scouts in our troop are "openly gay" (to my knowledge) and I have no reason to believe that any of them are non-openly gay, either. (There was one who once made a statement that made me wonder, but he has not been in the troop for four or five years. Although I briefly considered telling his parents what he had said, I decided it wasn't necessary. The only person other than me who heard the statement was my son (age 13 or 14 at the time), who did understand the possible implications of what the other Scout had said but did not seem concerned about it, so the matter ended there.)

 

 

 

I suspect that my troop will follow its usual route of dealing with the problems we actually have (which are enough to deal with) and not going out and looking for new problems, until a "situation" actually presents itself.