LDS?????

[Basementdweller]

I am mystified by all the LDS hatin going on........There are a few units in our district they show up to roundtable and seem to be decent enough folk.......

 

When to a meeting at their church and was caught off guard by the ban on scoutmaster fuel, coffee.

 

 

they keep to themselves around here, they have their own week at summer camp, Where special under wear, learned that last presidential campaign......

 

 

so explain to me all the hatin going on?????

 

 

The way I see it they are just trying to get by just like the rest of us.

 

the only hatin I see going on in my life is the rich hatin the poor and vice verse.

[Austinole]

I haven't seen any hating in my council.

[koolaidman]

I didn't know they had special underwear. That sounds like golden trivia stuff to me. Not much different than a yarmulke though is it?

 

BD are you talking about hating within the BSA or in the general population? Hating BSA program within LDS, or just plain ole hating them Mormon folk?

 

I've only known a few Mormon. I liked them all very much. Especially the ones that took the time out to explain bits of their religion to me when I had questions.

[Kristian]

LDS as a whole has enormous power over all aspects of bsa. With this power they are able to control or at least attempt to control everyone else. As many also see lds policies as contradictory to their own and likely the oath/law as well conflict will continue to arise.

 

Locally there really arent all that many lds units and since they seem to stick mainly to themselves to avoid conflicting values with the general public. Dont particularity care what these lds units do at their own meetings as long as they arent trying to hurt anyone else.

[Tampa Turtle]

I have a few opinions on how some LDS units in my town may run the program--pencil whipping, and Eagle Milling but that is par for the course anyway. On the whole everyone I have met has been polite, pretty well behaved, and well uniformed. OK by me.

[DigitalScout]

The LDS got a ton of flack in California for backing Prop. 8 which banned same-sex marriage. LDS urged their members to give to a pro-Prop 8 and 45% of the money came from Utah. Many people were pretty pissed off at LDS for that. The backlash surprised LDS who has been reaching out to the gay community and make amends. LDS also has a reputation of not being very welcoming to African-Americans. Mormons are also very conservative. The Mormons I personally know are very decent folk.

[moosetracker]

Yeah, don't know about the bashing of their religion, except perhaps frustration when their religious views influence BSA policy with no regard for anyone else's religious views.. Otherwise, all I have heard is the complaining about them running a different program then the rest of us, which is thought to be sub-par for the most part, unless they give the SM position to someone who is really interested in the program, and doing it right.. But, that sort of talk isn't just reserved for LDS groups, it is for anyone we think is not running the program correctly.. So no special treatment there.

 

Don't know otherwise about complaint of them as people, or of their religion.. Like everyone says, person to person they are very nice people..

[DWise1_AOL]

Yeah, well, LDS is kind of a ... OK , not really a mixed bag. A lot of Mormons are personally decent folk. But the entire community/church/political/court-room thing can get rather weird. And through a gay friend or two I've been picking up on some extra Mormon weirdness with regards to homosexuality within the community, but I'm not qualified to speak on that except to say that there is something going on there.

 

For normal district-level stuff, there can be a lot of frustration felt by non-Mormons. There are district-level Camporalls planned and executed, but all the Mormon units pull out on Saturday night in order to be in church Sunday morning, thus also pulling out of the Sunday activities. Basically, the Mormons and the non-Mormons end up running their own separate and practically independent programs. Within any group/organization, you want to be able to work with everybody, but at the same time the Mormons keep themselves separate from the rest.

 

Another element is the political/judicial. The Mormon Church has selected Boy Scouts, Inc, as its male youth program. As such, every Mormon boy is required to participate in BSA Scouting. Whether a boy actually participates or not, the Mormon Church enrolls him in BSA's Scouting programs up until he reaches the age of 18. Regardless. But wait, we haven't gotten to the weird part yet. The Mormon Church programs every single boy to "Eagle out" by age 14. Every Mormon boy's actual involvement with Scouting is programmed to end at age 14, and yet the Mormon Church continues to enroll and pay for every single Mormon male until he reaches the age of 18. So what are those boys doing between 14 and 18? Mormon sports programs!

 

Now for the judicial angle. In the religious discrimination lawsuits of the early 1990's, a recurring and staple position of the BSA lawyers arguing in the various courts was that BSA really didn't want to discriminate against these other religious groups (eg, atheists), but they were being extorted by the Mormon Church. If BSA were to allow even a single atheist to join Scouting, then the Mormon Church would withdraw all its support, which would be economically devastating to BSA, Inc. Of course, the BSA lawyers were never known to ever be consistent as they also argued that BSA was a secret religious organization and had been from the start, BSA had never ever been a secret religious organization even from the start, etc. Basically, whatever outright lie the BSA lawyers could tell whenever it suited them.

 

So basically, the Mormon units seem to be running their own program separate from everybody else, which causes friction with non-Mormons.

 

 

A Mormon afterthought, if I may. Back circa 1986, a male co-worker had married a Mormon woman and had hence married into the church. One day he came in to work and was complaining loudly and bitterly of what had just been done to him. He had just been drafted as Cubmaster. As he loudly proclaimed to everybody at work, "I have two daughters! I have no sons!". Basically, the Church tells you what your job will be and that is it. Here is the non-Mormons' take on that. Yes, all the positions do get filled, but what kind of service is rendered? Mormon "volunteers" render as much service as they are required to render, and no more. Think of the volunteer's line, "What is the least that I can do? And I do mean the very least." Mormon "volunteers" do the absolute minimum that is required of them and not one bit more (obvious individual exceptions duly noted). Non-Mormon volunteers are not required to fill a position and so they normally will put out that 110% and more (I will digress on that later) and will do so cheerfully instead of begrudgingly. In my years at District Roundtable representing my sons' troop, that dichotomy between Church-required service and actual service came up again and again. There is a definite difference between meeting a required commitment, which would be the Mormon model, and actually volunteering our time, which would be the non-Mormon model.

 

"110%". When I was a kid, I couldn't understand that, since there could not possibly be more than 100% of anything.

 

As a retired Chief Petty Officer with 35 years of service, I understand it fully. When you give 100%, what really are you giving? You do everything that is required of you.That is what giving 100% is, doing everything that is required of you. In school, do you know what grade that would give you? A "C". So another word for "100%" would be "mediocre." How then can you excel? By giving more than is required of you. By giving more than 100% Like giving 110%.

 

That is the meaning of "giving 110%". And that is what I taught my Webelos.

 

Hu Rah!

[DWise1_AOL]

This last election, we had a Mormon running for President.

 

I very personally observed and personally experienced what happens when Mormons take over an institution, such as BSA, Inc. For backing, I refer to Penn and Teller's ZBullshit! episode which cited the Mormon take-over of BSA in the 1980's.

 

I did not vote for Romney, but it was not because he is a Mormon. Really, there were so very many problems with voting him, Mormonism was the least of my concerns. But still, having seen what an absolutely mess they have made of BSA, how could we ever trust them with the US government?

[packsaddle]

Yeah, well, LDS is kind of a ... OK , not really a mixed bag. A lot of Mormons are personally decent folk. But the entire community/church/political/court-room thing can get rather weird. And through a gay friend or two I've been picking up on some extra Mormon weirdness with regards to homosexuality within the community, but I'm not qualified to speak on that except to say that there is something going on there.

 

For normal district-level stuff, there can be a lot of frustration felt by non-Mormons. There are district-level Camporalls planned and executed, but all the Mormon units pull out on Saturday night in order to be in church Sunday morning, thus also pulling out of the Sunday activities. Basically, the Mormons and the non-Mormons end up running their own separate and practically independent programs. Within any group/organization, you want to be able to work with everybody, but at the same time the Mormons keep themselves separate from the rest.

 

Another element is the political/judicial. The Mormon Church has selected Boy Scouts, Inc, as its male youth program. As such, every Mormon boy is required to participate in BSA Scouting. Whether a boy actually participates or not, the Mormon Church enrolls him in BSA's Scouting programs up until he reaches the age of 18. Regardless. But wait, we haven't gotten to the weird part yet. The Mormon Church programs every single boy to "Eagle out" by age 14. Every Mormon boy's actual involvement with Scouting is programmed to end at age 14, and yet the Mormon Church continues to enroll and pay for every single Mormon male until he reaches the age of 18. So what are those boys doing between 14 and 18? Mormon sports programs!

 

Now for the judicial angle. In the religious discrimination lawsuits of the early 1990's, a recurring and staple position of the BSA lawyers arguing in the various courts was that BSA really didn't want to discriminate against these other religious groups (eg, atheists), but they were being extorted by the Mormon Church. If BSA were to allow even a single atheist to join Scouting, then the Mormon Church would withdraw all its support, which would be economically devastating to BSA, Inc. Of course, the BSA lawyers were never known to ever be consistent as they also argued that BSA was a secret religious organization and had been from the start, BSA had never ever been a secret religious organization even from the start, etc. Basically, whatever outright lie the BSA lawyers could tell whenever it suited them.

 

So basically, the Mormon units seem to be running their own program separate from everybody else, which causes friction with non-Mormons.

 

 

A Mormon afterthought, if I may. Back circa 1986, a male co-worker had married a Mormon woman and had hence married into the church. One day he came in to work and was complaining loudly and bitterly of what had just been done to him. He had just been drafted as Cubmaster. As he loudly proclaimed to everybody at work, "I have two daughters! I have no sons!". Basically, the Church tells you what your job will be and that is it. Here is the non-Mormons' take on that. Yes, all the positions do get filled, but what kind of service is rendered? Mormon "volunteers" render as much service as they are required to render, and no more. Think of the volunteer's line, "What is the least that I can do? And I do mean the very least." Mormon "volunteers" do the absolute minimum that is required of them and not one bit more (obvious individual exceptions duly noted). Non-Mormon volunteers are not required to fill a position and so they normally will put out that 110% and more (I will digress on that later) and will do so cheerfully instead of begrudgingly. In my years at District Roundtable representing my sons' troop, that dichotomy between Church-required service and actual service came up again and again. There is a definite difference between meeting a required commitment, which would be the Mormon model, and actually volunteering our time, which would be the non-Mormon model.

 

"110%". When I was a kid, I couldn't understand that, since there could not possibly be more than 100% of anything.

 

As a retired Chief Petty Officer with 35 years of service, I understand it fully. When you give 100%, what really are you giving? You do everything that is required of you.That is what giving 100% is, doing everything that is required of you. In school, do you know what grade that would give you? A "C". So another word for "100%" would be "mediocre." How then can you excel? By giving more than is required of you. By giving more than 100% Like giving 110%.

 

That is the meaning of "giving 110%". And that is what I taught my Webelos.

 

Hu Rah!

In every school I have ever been a student in or a teacher in...if a student made 100% they would get an 'A', not a 'C'. Alternatively, if they only did what was necessary to pass and nothing more, they get a 'D'. A 'C' is often the required average grade in order to graduate. Just ask George Bush.

[walk in the woods]

You all make me laugh. "I have Mormon friends..." Now, where have I heard that before........

[Scouter99]

The LDS units' information is always absent from the contact info when I send a list of packs to the DE so I can send open house info. The first time I figured it was an oversight, the second time I knew better, ever since it's just been an inside joke with me, myself, and I to request it every year knowing it won't come.

[King Ding Dong]

Over 24 hours have passed BD and you have not answered any of the questions posed to you on your thread. What gives ? What hate are you referring to ? Can you give examples ? Is it in general or specific to this board ? Is the hate you see in regards to their religious beliefs or their BSA units ? Trailer Life locking them out ? Their power within the BSA ? I have my issues with you but I don't hate you. You are like Oscar on Sesame Steet. A lovable grouch.

[AKdenldr]

In the two districts around here a bunch of LDS lady scouters have taken over the Cub Leader Training and Baloo and OWL and are doing a bang up job. (It was a hot mess before.) I don't know everyone's church affiliation, but I suspect a number of the volunteers on the district and council committees are LDS. In the neighboring district a LDS troop puts on a huge MB university every year that is widely attended.

 

From some of my LDS friends I have heard that members campaign with their bishop to get the scouting assignments. And that members who don't get the scouting assignment often still continue to volunteer in Scouting.

 

That said, it does interrupt the action when ANY troops leave events early. LDS boys themselves might be bothered by their troops rules.....

[DWise1_AOL]

Yeah, well, LDS is kind of a ... OK , not really a mixed bag. A lot of Mormons are personally decent folk. But the entire community/church/political/court-room thing can get rather weird. And through a gay friend or two I've been picking up on some extra Mormon weirdness with regards to homosexuality within the community, but I'm not qualified to speak on that except to say that there is something going on there.

 

For normal district-level stuff, there can be a lot of frustration felt by non-Mormons. There are district-level Camporalls planned and executed, but all the Mormon units pull out on Saturday night in order to be in church Sunday morning, thus also pulling out of the Sunday activities. Basically, the Mormons and the non-Mormons end up running their own separate and practically independent programs. Within any group/organization, you want to be able to work with everybody, but at the same time the Mormons keep themselves separate from the rest.

 

Another element is the political/judicial. The Mormon Church has selected Boy Scouts, Inc, as its male youth program. As such, every Mormon boy is required to participate in BSA Scouting. Whether a boy actually participates or not, the Mormon Church enrolls him in BSA's Scouting programs up until he reaches the age of 18. Regardless. But wait, we haven't gotten to the weird part yet. The Mormon Church programs every single boy to "Eagle out" by age 14. Every Mormon boy's actual involvement with Scouting is programmed to end at age 14, and yet the Mormon Church continues to enroll and pay for every single Mormon male until he reaches the age of 18. So what are those boys doing between 14 and 18? Mormon sports programs!

 

Now for the judicial angle. In the religious discrimination lawsuits of the early 1990's, a recurring and staple position of the BSA lawyers arguing in the various courts was that BSA really didn't want to discriminate against these other religious groups (eg, atheists), but they were being extorted by the Mormon Church. If BSA were to allow even a single atheist to join Scouting, then the Mormon Church would withdraw all its support, which would be economically devastating to BSA, Inc. Of course, the BSA lawyers were never known to ever be consistent as they also argued that BSA was a secret religious organization and had been from the start, BSA had never ever been a secret religious organization even from the start, etc. Basically, whatever outright lie the BSA lawyers could tell whenever it suited them.

 

So basically, the Mormon units seem to be running their own program separate from everybody else, which causes friction with non-Mormons.

 

 

A Mormon afterthought, if I may. Back circa 1986, a male co-worker had married a Mormon woman and had hence married into the church. One day he came in to work and was complaining loudly and bitterly of what had just been done to him. He had just been drafted as Cubmaster. As he loudly proclaimed to everybody at work, "I have two daughters! I have no sons!". Basically, the Church tells you what your job will be and that is it. Here is the non-Mormons' take on that. Yes, all the positions do get filled, but what kind of service is rendered? Mormon "volunteers" render as much service as they are required to render, and no more. Think of the volunteer's line, "What is the least that I can do? And I do mean the very least." Mormon "volunteers" do the absolute minimum that is required of them and not one bit more (obvious individual exceptions duly noted). Non-Mormon volunteers are not required to fill a position and so they normally will put out that 110% and more (I will digress on that later) and will do so cheerfully instead of begrudgingly. In my years at District Roundtable representing my sons' troop, that dichotomy between Church-required service and actual service came up again and again. There is a definite difference between meeting a required commitment, which would be the Mormon model, and actually volunteering our time, which would be the non-Mormon model.

 

"110%". When I was a kid, I couldn't understand that, since there could not possibly be more than 100% of anything.

 

As a retired Chief Petty Officer with 35 years of service, I understand it fully. When you give 100%, what really are you giving? You do everything that is required of you.That is what giving 100% is, doing everything that is required of you. In school, do you know what grade that would give you? A "C". So another word for "100%" would be "mediocre." How then can you excel? By giving more than is required of you. By giving more than 100% Like giving 110%.

 

That is the meaning of "giving 110%". And that is what I taught my Webelos.

 

Hu Rah!

Yes, packsaddle, I agree with you that that is what we teach students in school. And it is the first in the list of "The Wrong Lessons: Things NOT to Learn in School":

1. YOU ONLY NEED TO GET A 70

70% is NOT OK. 70% stinks. Name on occupation in which it is OK to be right only 70% of the time. What job lets you be totally wrong three times out of every ten -- and keeep your job more than a week or two? How many mistakes can a surgeon make? Can a grocery checker give out correct change only 70% of the time? Can a teacher be wrong about 30% of what she teaches? Would you pay a guy who contracted to paint your house and then quit after only painting three sides? That's 74% -- in school that was OK!

 

Face it: even a farmworker will be fired the first day if he leaves behind 30% of the oranges he is being paid to pick. In real life, jobs require you to know all the answers, and do 100% of the work, all the time. How many mistakes can an airline pilot make?

 

And if you want to present George W. Bush as an example, then I'm right with you on that one!