Are there too many Training Courses?

[Basementdweller]

I guess I don't ever think there can be too much training. Some of it's good, some's redundant, others have poor trainers, but when all is said and done, something always rubs off.

 

I have had all the training from Cubbing through Venturing and Woodbadge. I'm also a trained commissioner. But although I don't use all the training in my current position, all of it has been helpful. I guess If I'm hiring someone to do a job for me, if one candidate has an 8th grade education, and another a doctorate, it may make a bit of difference somewhere along the way as to the quality and type of job being done for me. It's a judgment call, but I would tend to be a bit biased with having too much education than not enough.

 

Stosh

Oh know KDD are you talking about kudu's bain....EDGE.

 

Your friend is correct the best way to learn, and master the skill is to teach it. IOLS staff was a lot of fun, but demanding and a big commitment.

[Eamonn]

For my sins I have served as a District Training Chair. Council Training Chair. Been on a lot of Wood Badge courses -Boy Scout, Cub Scout and the 21st Century course serving as CD before I was put out to pasture.

My feeling is that the problem isn't the number of courses.

It's the quality of the trainers.

As Training Chair. I really didn't see my job as organizing and putting on courses.

Like many roles in Scouting my role was more about training trainers.

So far all the "Train The Trainer" courses that the BSA has come up with fail to do the job.

 

The best train the trainer course was the old Cub Scout Woodbadge Course.

Which was all about adult leader training. - I never really thought about as being what at that time I seen as a WB course.

 

We need to do everything we can to try and ensure that training course are all about the participants.

Not about the course staff or them earning beads, knots or dingle dangles.

The aim of the District and Council should be all about ensuring that the adult leaders are trained. Not about putting on courses.

I'd much sooner wait till I had a trained staff before staging a course rather than having a course just because it was on a calendar.

A good mantra for all trainers should be "I know what I'm talking about and I'm not going to waste your time.".

That doesn't mean that there isn't time for fun or one on one instruction.

 

District and Council Training Chairs can get by doing very little.

But, they should be on the look out for people who can join the "Training Team."

Where possible these people should not be active unit leaders. - These poor guys have more then enough on their plates to start with.

 

The District Training Chair. Should work hand in hand with the District Commissioner, helping identify units that need a hand and might benefit from training and identify people who might be an asset to the District Training Team.

 

I'll bet if training wasn't seen as a waste of time and was fun.

More people would be willing to attend and those who do will come away wanting more.

Eamonn.

[blw2]

I guess I might agree re. the quality of trainers.... but a lot might be driven by inconsistencies in course content.

I was just reading this thread where I left off at my last post.....

 

"perdidochas commented - BALOO was basically just about the rules for family camping."

 

It's clear that the agenda outlined for the class I took was very different than perdidochas' class.

See, my BALOO that I just attended was very little about the rules. It was more about basic camping tips and tricks....... and frankly a lot of noise about how to plan a trip, etc...

I would argue that just about the only thing that this BALOO course should have been about is about the rules.

......How to fill out a tour permit, what can and can't be done by this age or that age.....etc.... that's the one common thing that a new scouter likely doesn't know

 

[blw2]

Now..... I'm asking myself, "should I attend the Leader Specific training slated for next weekend?"

I just found out that they aren't requiring any sort of RSVP or registration, so they really have no idea if it'll just be me as the only student, or all new Tiger Leaders, or one Cubmaster and the rest Den Leaders. Can't really be too "specific" in my estimation.

Still, it might be a good networking opportunity, and a chance to knock ideas around a bit.

[King Ding Dong]

Now..... I'm asking myself, "should I attend the Leader Specific training slated for next weekend?"

I just found out that they aren't requiring any sort of RSVP or registration, so they really have no idea if it'll just be me as the only student, or all new Tiger Leaders, or one Cubmaster and the rest Den Leaders. Can't really be too "specific" in my estimation.

Still, it might be a good networking opportunity, and a chance to knock ideas around a bit.

The cub leader training in my district covers all positions. Most of us end up in at least a couple by the time its over. Either an all day saturday class or two enening classes. Maybe yours will have breakouts for each position.

 

I would go and ask all the fuzzy questions we banter about on this board and report back. Should provide some fun. (Summertime pack award, family camping, wolves and knives, DRP, complete uniform or none at all, hat indoors, den chiefs, how long past June 1 to earn rank and electives)

[jpstodwftexas]

Training is a Cash Cow for Councils...WoodBadge almost $500. For What? I don't see what you get out of it. I rather go to a Powder Horn Training or National Camp School or Philmont. I can understand Training people who have never been in scouting before..But Really..Might as well say that I didn't Earn Eagle..I didn't earn all the Merit Badges..hiking, Camping, Cooking, Wilderness Survival, Rowing, Sailboating, Nature, First Aide, and all those Wilderness Campouts. I rather get certified in Climbing, or Aquatics, or Shooting Sports so I can run events not so I can wear a Patrol Patch as an Adult and special Beads. But if your not a BSA Training Lemmin then You don't fit in

[JoeBob]

Training is a Cash Cow for Councils...WoodBadge almost $500. For What? I don't see what you get out of it. I rather go to a Powder Horn Training or National Camp School or Philmont. I can understand Training people who have never been in scouting before..But Really..Might as well say that I didn't Earn Eagle..I didn't earn all the Merit Badges..hiking, Camping, Cooking, Wilderness Survival, Rowing, Sailboating, Nature, First Aide, and all those Wilderness Campouts. I rather get certified in Climbing, or Aquatics, or Shooting Sports so I can run events not so I can wear a Patrol Patch as an Adult and special Beads. But if your not a BSA Training Lemmin then You don't fit in

I'm not so sure that councils make money on training. There are enough costs in food, staff, and facilities to offset the $500 ($250).

 

What the BSA does gain in having you buy into their training is more lemmings. If you accept 'servant leadership', you're a free BSA worker forever. It's your duty to serve the boys. And your free labor helps keep Pro salaries high.

***

 

Confession: I don't wear the knots that I could have earned as an adult. No Cubmaster, Den Leader, etc knots. I like to gauge people by their reaction to my almost nekkid uniform shirt, just Eagle.

Some folks at bigger scouting events stick their noses in the air, and sniff about how WouldBadge is their Eagle. Uh huh. Then I know what to expect from them.

Some folks work with you as a person, and it's always a pleasure to help them achieve good things for the boys.

I like surprising people, and I hate wasting my time on ID ten Ts.

[King Ding Dong]

Training is a Cash Cow for Councils...WoodBadge almost $500. For What? I don't see what you get out of it. I rather go to a Powder Horn Training or National Camp School or Philmont. I can understand Training people who have never been in scouting before..But Really..Might as well say that I didn't Earn Eagle..I didn't earn all the Merit Badges..hiking, Camping, Cooking, Wilderness Survival, Rowing, Sailboating, Nature, First Aide, and all those Wilderness Campouts. I rather get certified in Climbing, or Aquatics, or Shooting Sports so I can run events not so I can wear a Patrol Patch as an Adult and special Beads. But if your not a BSA Training Lemmin then You don't fit in

Cash cow ? Not in my council $25 for IOLS ? They give us a binder with the Scoutmaster handbook and a bunch of PowerPoint notes. Um, that kind of profit isn't going to pay my sewer bill.

 

I can't speak to Wood badge, but if the feed me for 6 days, you might cover my water bill for a couple of weeks in July.

[Kudu]

do we really need to have "Angler Training" before folks can teach fishing skills?

Yes.

 

Where else are you going to learn EDGE theory?

 

Wood Badge replaced Boy Scout skills with office management theory because, as Wood Badge Staffers like to remind each other, some of us spend our entire lives avoiding offices and the people who manage offices.

 

The problem is that word gets around, and outdoorsmen avoid Wood Badge now, so office theory must be introduced in the "specific" training courses.

 

 

In Scoutmaster-Specific training (the course that replaced the "Scoutmaster Fundamentals" course your dad took), the BSA's EDGE experts removed the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol from the Patrol Method presentation, and replaced them with EDGE.

 

So, to better serve the outdoorsmen who avoid Wood Badge, Angler Training must likewise remove fishermen and any description of catching a fish, and replace them with EDGE.

 

 

[blw2]

agreed, NOT a cash cow.

 

I think I paid $15 or $20 for the BALOO..... included a binder with notes and info, and lunch.

Seemed about break even to me.

 

As far as I know the leader specific next weekend is a freebee

[jpstodwftexas]

Just add up the Nit Pick Cources..Before Woodbadge and it is a Cash Cow. No thanks..If they Never let me Chair an Event because I ain't woodbadge..so Be it..

I renew YP every Years..I did every online free Training..and I have all my Scouting Experience to Guide me not a Notebook.. My Arrow of Light and My Eagle are my Training certificates. Only Knots I wear. Never bothered to get a Tiger or Den Leader Knot..I know I served my Boys well. Several parents keep asking me back, that speaks for itself. Fighting Back problems and Prostate Cancer prevents me from doing more right now.