FAITH has two meanings

[arcochief1978]

Just went through the wood Badge course and my ticket is "to help our Scouts recognize the role that faith takes in Scouting". I am a Webelos den II leader this year. Last year I told the parents to go ahead and check off two items under 8e and sign for them (they are AKELA) . I have six Scouts now with their Webelos Badge and they are up to ten activates done, everyone will bridge over this next March. The troop I am with is chartered through a public school so as far as religion goes the diversity is HIGH. I wanted to open our first meeting with an invocation; if you have been to Wood Badge course you have seen that every morning after the flag ceremony there is an invocation and before lunch and dinner. During the second three days our Patrol (BOB WHITES) did an invocation before every meal.

 

Well my committee says "NO" no invocation it could destroy our very diverse troop!! So, I have set up with my Catholic church to visit with the Catholic Boy Scouts and they will be able to take on ParvuLi Dei through them. Next I am hopefully going to set up my other scouts through there own religious org. and they can do "GOD AND FAMILY" now all my Webelos will be able to wear the Emblem of faith over their left pocket. This should satisfy my ticket; hopefully! I do not know of any Boy Scout troops in my area that are not chartered through a religious org. and my Webelos will need to experience this change now.

 

What I am also thinking is those Scouts that are atheist, how would they earn the Badge of Faith. How does this sound... FAITH has two meanings a noun for being of an religious organization or believing in a higher power. Also a noun of having a high trust In someone, your child or your parent; so would not this mean they have a FAITH. I think this needs to be a round table discussion

[perdidochas]

Use Scoutlike invocations. There are some very neutral ones out there. 1. A SCOUT'S PRAYER

 

Lord, we thank you for this day.

Help us to do our best every day,

And forgive us when we slip.

 

Teach us to be kind to other people

and to help them at all times

Bless our parents and teachers and leaders

and all the members of Scouting

 

Bless us, Lord in your love for us

Help us to be a better Scouts

and let us do our best for you

 

Amen

 

5. A SCOUTER'S PRAYER

 

"Build me a Scout, O Lord, who will be strong enough to know when he is weak and brave enough to face himself when he is afraid; one who will be proud and unbending in honest defeat, and humble and gentle in victory...

 

Build me a Scout whose wishes will not take the place of deeds; a Scout who himself is the

foundation stone of knowledge...

 

Lead him, I pray, not in the path of ease and comfort, but under the stress and spur of difficulties and challenge. Here let him learn to stand up in the storm; here let him learn compassion for those who fail...

 

Build me a Scout whose heart will be clear, whose goals will be high. A Scout who will master himself before he seeks to master others, one who will march into the future, yet never forget the past...

 

And after all these things are his, add, I pray, enough of a sense of humor so that he may always be serious, yet never take himself too seriously. Give him humility, so that he may always remember the simplicity of true wisdom, and the meekness of true strength...

 

Then I, a Scouter who knew him, will dare to whisper, `I have not lived in vain.'"

 

[qwazse]

I would think you would want each boy to lead an invocation that would be acceptable to his own faith. That way, they can learn a little about the others culture. You should give the boys the right to opt out because their belief might be opposed to public expression of religion. Or, the boys are just plain shy. But, if your committee said "no", respect that. You've done that part of your ticket as far as you could.

 

You are on the right track in terms of trying to hash this out at your roundtable. And in terms of helping boys of a particular religious persuasion earn their particular award. Also, regarding this, some folks have a thing against earning medals for their religious life, so even among religious families you should tread carefully. Your goal should be that the boy understands a little bit better what he believes, not that he acquires more bling for his uniform.

 

Public schools are not supposed to charter BSA units specifically because of BSA's discrimination against atheists. Read the BSA declaration of religious principle an you can get a feel for why there'd be a conflict of interest. Again, this is a problem beyond the scope of your WB ticket, but it certainly impacts the boundaries your committee is setting.

[King Ding Dong]

I get confused reading your post because you are talking about Webelos and you keep using the word Troop. Webelos are not in a troop they are in a Pack. Secondly, all of your scouts may not be able to earn the Religous Emblem because their religion may not have one recognized by the BSA. Be very careful bringing up the word atheist in the BSA, some councils are very understanding and will work with a family to find some common ground, others will not. If questioned on the subject, and the response is not satisfactory membership in the BSA can be denied in some circumstances. Pastafarianism is a fun option for many, although there is no recognized Emblem. I am not an official member of The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster but have friends that are. It seems to satisfy both the BSA and many atheists and non-atheists.

[Basementdweller]

So poor old SM will get blindsided by the atheist cub scout.........He will join the troop and at some point between 12-14 he will decide to speak up at a really bad moment. Such as Summer camp during grace.....

 

See the thread regarding the supreme being........Not that I am a religious fanatic, but this might be the deal breaker for me........

 

So far, not experienced that one yet.....But I have had a 12 year old tell me he is gay, during the ban period.......

[5yearscouter]

Yeah, technically your Athiest Webelos cannot be members of the BSA. there is certainly no Emblem of Faith they can earn since they don't have any faith in God, eh?

 

At Webelos level, we take it to mean that the youth is exploring his faith and whether he believes or not, but that his parents are declaring themselves Athiest. so our pack doesn't kick them out for that. We do encourage them to explore other faiths, and an excellent way to do it locally is thru the 10 commandment hike that Grand Canyon Council puts on, where we visit the house of worship for many denominations, hike to each one, covering maybe 5 miles in the process. We will usually have the standard christian groups catholics, protestant, methodists,etc and LDS but also Jewish, Muslim and sometimes we get Hindu (they usually talk in a park setting along the way). Each group talks about one of the Commandments, how it applies in their religion if it does, and then talks a little bit about their church and opens it up to the youth to ask questions, where you get the questions of why the pastor wears those robes or why the church windows are stained glass or why there are all these symbols on the wall. You could do similar by visiting a few religious organizations/churches in your area to expose them to options, with their parents approval of course.

 

However, by the time they are Boy Scouts, they'll need to determine if they have a faith in a higher power or not. They do not have to belong to a religious organization, so they don't have to be a member of a church, and don't have to earn the emblem of faith in their religion, but they have to have a faith in a higher power.

 

 

It is best to have this discussion soon, rather than put it off for the scoutmaster to be caught unaware later on, and it to become an issue of someone getting kicked out.

[5yearscouter]

Oh and it's your ticket, you can change it if you need to. just talk to your troop guide. it's not written in stone.

[Rick_in_CA]

Yeah, technically your Athiest Webelos cannot be members of the BSA. there is certainly no Emblem of Faith they can earn since they don't have any faith in God, eh?

 

At Webelos level, we take it to mean that the youth is exploring his faith and whether he believes or not, but that his parents are declaring themselves Athiest. so our pack doesn't kick them out for that. We do encourage them to explore other faiths, and an excellent way to do it locally is thru the 10 commandment hike that Grand Canyon Council puts on, where we visit the house of worship for many denominations, hike to each one, covering maybe 5 miles in the process. We will usually have the standard christian groups catholics, protestant, methodists,etc and LDS but also Jewish, Muslim and sometimes we get Hindu (they usually talk in a park setting along the way). Each group talks about one of the Commandments, how it applies in their religion if it does, and then talks a little bit about their church and opens it up to the youth to ask questions, where you get the questions of why the pastor wears those robes or why the church windows are stained glass or why there are all these symbols on the wall. You could do similar by visiting a few religious organizations/churches in your area to expose them to options, with their parents approval of course.

 

However, by the time they are Boy Scouts, they'll need to determine if they have a faith in a higher power or not. They do not have to belong to a religious organization, so they don't have to be a member of a church, and don't have to earn the emblem of faith in their religion, but they have to have a faith in a higher power.

 

 

It is best to have this discussion soon, rather than put it off for the scoutmaster to be caught unaware later on, and it to become an issue of someone getting kicked out.

"However, by the time they are Boy Scouts, they'll need to determine if they have a faith in a higher power or not." Really? This is what the BSA actually says about this (from Guide to Advancement, pg. 33):

 

"The Boy Scouts of America does not define what constitutes belief in God or practice of religion. Neither does the BSA require membership in a religious organization or association for membership in the movement. If a Scout does not belong to a religious organization or association, then his parent(s) or guardian(s) will be considered responsible for his religious training. All that is required is the acknowledgment of belief in God as stated in the Scout Oath, and the ability to be reverent as stated in the Scout Law."

 

So the BSA requires a belief in God, but refuses to define what it is. So not even a "belief in a higher power" is required. The only thing required is for a scout to define what a belief in god is for himself, and then to have that belief. Even if that belief is that God is fictional. So atheists are welcome as long as they don't call themselves an "atheist" (according to the people from BSA National I have spoken with it's the label that matters).

[Basementdweller]

Oh and it's your ticket, you can change it if you need to. just talk to your troop guide. it's not written in stone.

And the far left is off

 

cue william tell overture

[Basementdweller]

Yeah, technically your Athiest Webelos cannot be members of the BSA. there is certainly no Emblem of Faith they can earn since they don't have any faith in God, eh?

 

At Webelos level, we take it to mean that the youth is exploring his faith and whether he believes or not, but that his parents are declaring themselves Athiest. so our pack doesn't kick them out for that. We do encourage them to explore other faiths, and an excellent way to do it locally is thru the 10 commandment hike that Grand Canyon Council puts on, where we visit the house of worship for many denominations, hike to each one, covering maybe 5 miles in the process. We will usually have the standard christian groups catholics, protestant, methodists,etc and LDS but also Jewish, Muslim and sometimes we get Hindu (they usually talk in a park setting along the way). Each group talks about one of the Commandments, how it applies in their religion if it does, and then talks a little bit about their church and opens it up to the youth to ask questions, where you get the questions of why the pastor wears those robes or why the church windows are stained glass or why there are all these symbols on the wall. You could do similar by visiting a few religious organizations/churches in your area to expose them to options, with their parents approval of course.

 

However, by the time they are Boy Scouts, they'll need to determine if they have a faith in a higher power or not. They do not have to belong to a religious organization, so they don't have to be a member of a church, and don't have to earn the emblem of faith in their religion, but they have to have a faith in a higher power.

 

 

It is best to have this discussion soon, rather than put it off for the scoutmaster to be caught unaware later on, and it to become an issue of someone getting kicked out.

Well pretty sure a lad comes up to me and tells me " Oh mr. b I am an atheist"......I will do a few probing questions and ask if he is sure......Ask my committee of 70 year old eagle scouts what they think....Then he will be out on his smart ass. I know the committee god guts and the old USA not in that particular order.

[NeverAnEagle]

Use Scoutlike invocations. There are some very neutral ones out there. 1. A SCOUT'S PRAYER

 

Lord, we thank you for this day.

Help us to do our best every day,

And forgive us when we slip.

 

Teach us to be kind to other people

and to help them at all times

Bless our parents and teachers and leaders

and all the members of Scouting

 

Bless us, Lord in your love for us

Help us to be a better Scouts

and let us do our best for you

 

Amen

 

5. A SCOUTER'S PRAYER

 

"Build me a Scout, O Lord, who will be strong enough to know when he is weak and brave enough to face himself when he is afraid; one who will be proud and unbending in honest defeat, and humble and gentle in victory...

 

Build me a Scout whose wishes will not take the place of deeds; a Scout who himself is the

foundation stone of knowledge...

 

Lead him, I pray, not in the path of ease and comfort, but under the stress and spur of difficulties and challenge. Here let him learn to stand up in the storm; here let him learn compassion for those who fail...

 

Build me a Scout whose heart will be clear, whose goals will be high. A Scout who will master himself before he seeks to master others, one who will march into the future, yet never forget the past...

 

And after all these things are his, add, I pray, enough of a sense of humor so that he may always be serious, yet never take himself too seriously. Give him humility, so that he may always remember the simplicity of true wisdom, and the meekness of true strength...

 

Then I, a Scouter who knew him, will dare to whisper, `I have not lived in vain.'"

Both these sound very Christian to me.

[NeverAnEagle]

I get confused reading your post because you are talking about Webelos and you keep using the word Troop. Webelos are not in a troop they are in a Pack. Secondly, all of your scouts may not be able to earn the Religous Emblem because their religion may not have one recognized by the BSA. Be very careful bringing up the word atheist in the BSA, some councils are very understanding and will work with a family to find some common ground, others will not. If questioned on the subject, and the response is not satisfactory membership in the BSA can be denied in some circumstances. Pastafarianism is a fun option for many, although there is no recognized Emblem. I am not an official member of The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster but have friends that are. It seems to satisfy both the BSA and many atheists and non-atheists.

True. I have friends that can't earn a religious emblem because BSA has not approved one yet.

At least the "rest of us" can still celebrate Festivus!

[Sentinel947]

Use Scoutlike invocations. There are some very neutral ones out there. 1. A SCOUT'S PRAYER

 

Lord, we thank you for this day.

Help us to do our best every day,

And forgive us when we slip.

 

Teach us to be kind to other people

and to help them at all times

Bless our parents and teachers and leaders

and all the members of Scouting

 

Bless us, Lord in your love for us

Help us to be a better Scouts

and let us do our best for you

 

Amen

 

5. A SCOUTER'S PRAYER

 

"Build me a Scout, O Lord, who will be strong enough to know when he is weak and brave enough to face himself when he is afraid; one who will be proud and unbending in honest defeat, and humble and gentle in victory...

 

Build me a Scout whose wishes will not take the place of deeds; a Scout who himself is the

foundation stone of knowledge...

 

Lead him, I pray, not in the path of ease and comfort, but under the stress and spur of difficulties and challenge. Here let him learn to stand up in the storm; here let him learn compassion for those who fail...

 

Build me a Scout whose heart will be clear, whose goals will be high. A Scout who will master himself before he seeks to master others, one who will march into the future, yet never forget the past...

 

And after all these things are his, add, I pray, enough of a sense of humor so that he may always be serious, yet never take himself too seriously. Give him humility, so that he may always remember the simplicity of true wisdom, and the meekness of true strength...

 

Then I, a Scouter who knew him, will dare to whisper, `I have not lived in vain.'"

Never an Eagle, what makes those sound Christian?

[King Ding Dong]

Use Scoutlike invocations. There are some very neutral ones out there. 1. A SCOUT'S PRAYER

 

Lord, we thank you for this day.

Help us to do our best every day,

And forgive us when we slip.

 

Teach us to be kind to other people

and to help them at all times

Bless our parents and teachers and leaders

and all the members of Scouting

 

Bless us, Lord in your love for us

Help us to be a better Scouts

and let us do our best for you

 

Amen

 

5. A SCOUTER'S PRAYER

 

"Build me a Scout, O Lord, who will be strong enough to know when he is weak and brave enough to face himself when he is afraid; one who will be proud and unbending in honest defeat, and humble and gentle in victory...

 

Build me a Scout whose wishes will not take the place of deeds; a Scout who himself is the

foundation stone of knowledge...

 

Lead him, I pray, not in the path of ease and comfort, but under the stress and spur of difficulties and challenge. Here let him learn to stand up in the storm; here let him learn compassion for those who fail...

 

Build me a Scout whose heart will be clear, whose goals will be high. A Scout who will master himself before he seeks to master others, one who will march into the future, yet never forget the past...

 

And after all these things are his, add, I pray, enough of a sense of humor so that he may always be serious, yet never take himself too seriously. Give him humility, so that he may always remember the simplicity of true wisdom, and the meekness of true strength...

 

Then I, a Scouter who knew him, will dare to whisper, `I have not lived in vain.'"

Lord, O'Lord, Amen

[King Ding Dong]

I get confused reading your post because you are talking about Webelos and you keep using the word Troop. Webelos are not in a troop they are in a Pack. Secondly, all of your scouts may not be able to earn the Religous Emblem because their religion may not have one recognized by the BSA. Be very careful bringing up the word atheist in the BSA, some councils are very understanding and will work with a family to find some common ground, others will not. If questioned on the subject, and the response is not satisfactory membership in the BSA can be denied in some circumstances. Pastafarianism is a fun option for many, although there is no recognized Emblem. I am not an official member of The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster but have friends that are. It seems to satisfy both the BSA and many atheists and non-atheists.

The Airing of Greivances is my favorite part.

 

The most holy day of the year is next week for my friends. International Talk Like a Pirate Day on the 19th.