evillama Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I pretty much know the answer already here, but wanted to see if others saw the confusion as well. It clearly states in multiple locations on the scouting.org site, as well as the Safety Afloat training course, that any activities involving Webelos and Canoeing must only be at District or Council run events. However, within the Aquanaut badge section of the handbook, one of the optional requirements is "6. With an adult on board, show that you know how to handle a rowboat" and also further on pages 98-100 there is a section on "Aquanauts Are Safe Boaters" and talks about what a scout should know while on a vessel. There are absolutely no references to the BSA rules for Safety Afloat or District/Council events. There may be Webelos dens out there planning activities like canoeing, under the assumption that it is OK for the sole purpose of completing the Aquanaut Badge. I think the handbook needs to be amended and clarified. Who's attention should this be brought to? ENV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christineka Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 A Row boat is different from a canoe. Row boats are less tippy. The aquanaut badge specifically says to use a rowboat for the achievement. I don't know how that could be interpreted as "canoe". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueymungus Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 The wording says "And do three of these:" The rowboat is an option, so I suspect it's skipped a lot. If a pool at a swim center has a rescue boat or a boat that they use for this type of activity, then I would suspect under supervision of a trained lifeguard, it could be used. If you want to have this amended email program.content @scouting.org. The Cubscout Books and Program are being updated for 2014-2015 due to Task Force 411. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 A Row boat is different from a canoe. Row boats are less tippy. The aquanaut badge specifically says to use a rowboat for the achievement. I don't know how that could be interpreted as "canoe".Clearly the next GTSS must contain a new section detailing the specs for a rowboat and a canoe. Length, width, length to width ratio and so forth. Illustrations included. The boats used in Crew or whatever its called are more like a canoe than a typical pond rowboat. While they are amending the Webelos Handbook they can add a 21st Activity Badge called "GTSS Law" and make it required for AOL. Once Webelos understand how concerned the adults are for their safety all the crossover problems will be solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evillama Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 The aquanaut badge specifically says to use a rowboat for the achievement. Herein lies the true problem, not that there is misinterpretation with "canoe". Where is a Webelos scout supposed to use a rowboat, if not with a District/Council run event? This is what is not clear in the handbook. @Hueymungus Thanks, I will write to that e-mail address. I suspect it is skipped a lot too. ENV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 The aquanaut badge specifically says to use a rowboat for the achievement. Herein lies the true problem, not that there is misinterpretation with "canoe". Where is a Webelos scout supposed to use a rowboat, if not with a District/Council run event? This is what is not clear in the handbook. @Hueymungus Thanks, I will write to that e-mail address. I suspect it is skipped a lot too. ENV Well, when I was a Webelos, there was the Sportsman's club pond near our den leader's house, although most of the time our dads would drop us off to fish, after which we'd go to our DL's house and practice shooting his 38 special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 A Row boat is different from a canoe. Row boats are less tippy. The aquanaut badge specifically says to use a rowboat for the achievement. I don't know how that could be interpreted as "canoe".You forgot the companion books BSA Dummies guide to Safe scouting BSA Dummies guide to common sense BSA Dummies guide to GTA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewmeister Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Yeah, we sorta ignored that whole no-canoeing guideline thing when my son was a cub... Remember that the "G" in G2SS stands for Guide... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evillama Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 Thanks all. Alongside safe scouting, I just want to be sure we're always covered under that huge multi-million $ BSA insurance policy. Have heard some horror stories about not following "the Guidelines" when incidents happen. Don't want anyone to lose their house over a canoe! ENV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Thanks all. Alongside safe scouting, I just want to be sure we're always covered under that huge multi-million $ BSA insurance policy. Have heard some horror stories about not following "the Guidelines" when incidents happen. Don't want anyone to lose their house over a canoe! ENV We have all heard stories, Do you have any first hand or directly know of a unit or leader that violated teh G2SS and got hung out to dry by council or national. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardB Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss02.aspx#i is the current version of safety afloat which covers this situation as well as other aquatics activities. Please note that finishing this during a council / district run event on flat not flowing water is the way to do this as an offiical scouting activity. There are not den or unit aquatics in cub scouts. I'd like to point out to those on the list that are taking a less than conservative approach to this that the thought of loosing a house is notthing to the thought of loosing a kid or participant. Please contact your councils aquatics committee for local guideance and assistance in having this young man achieve the Aquanaut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Thanks all. Alongside safe scouting, I just want to be sure we're always covered under that huge multi-million $ BSA insurance policy. Have heard some horror stories about not following "the Guidelines" when incidents happen. Don't want anyone to lose their house over a canoe! ENV Have you ever wondered why none of those "horror stories" of denied claims came with a name, unit #, or council? Personally I have seen the coverage in action, and details about G2SS were never brought into question. Having the requisite paperwork in place did speed processing of claims, but lacking would not have impeded them. The 1st concern was to make sure our people were taken care of and if possible, made whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Yeah, we sorta ignored that whole no-canoeing guideline thing when my son was a cub... Remember that the "G" in G2SS stands for Guide... Not sure about your council... But every unit that schedules a float trip is required to file a tour plan or permit. They are required to have a unit leader who has completed Safety afloat and Safe swim defense. I doubt that the pack leadership has the required training and I doubt that your council would have issued a tour plan for the float trip for a Cub Pack. So you gotta ask, are the rumors true if things go bad, am I or the Pack leadership liable... Of course you could do the old family outing and it isn't really a pack event thing. But then that enters the entire when is it a pack event and when isnt it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss02.aspx#i is the current version of safety afloat which covers this situation as well as other aquatics activities. Please note that finishing this during a council / district run event on flat not flowing water is the way to do this as an offiical scouting activity. There are not den or unit aquatics in cub scouts. I'd like to point out to those on the list that are taking a less than conservative approach to this that the thought of loosing a house is notthing to the thought of loosing a kid or participant. Please contact your councils aquatics committee for local guideance and assistance in having this young man achieve the Aquanaut.Thanks Richard. No intent to be cavalier here. Agreed that a boy's safety trumps concerns over liability (or even the economic benefits of a nation of boys behaving safely). With that in mind, teaching boating safety at an early age is important. Minimum boating skill may be essential for everyone in your family if they live near a body of water. The linchpin to successful training, however, is qualified supervision. So it's not just any boat, with any adult, on any body of water, in any condition. For some boys, that could be a trained parent or guardian, but for most boys that means a council / district event which would only go forward with qualified supervision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evillama Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 Thanks Richard. Hence why I originally posted the question in the first place - to be sure there was clarity in the Webelos Handbook in case there are leaders out there "only" following the handbook and not knowing the broader rules around safe scouting. ENV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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