Trail Life confused over who they are?????

[NeverAnEagle]

I honestly think at this point the gay issue was an excuse for some people to get out of the BSA and start their own organization. I only know of one Scout who is going to be joining this new organization, and that Scout isn't from my unit.

My Aunt's favorite prayer is: "May God bless all my enemies with a limp; that way they will be easily identified and avoided. And if necessary I'll be able to out-run them. AMEN."

 

I hope Trail Life becomes a private christian club that no one has ever heard of. There is one Royal Ranger group here and another that I know of 2 counties north. I have met a Royal Ranger, and like the kids from AWANA, he wanted to be a boy scout, but his parents religious views prevented it. I think that like Royal Rangers, Trail Life may become a holding tank for the wing-nuts; which gives us the opportunity to identify and avoid them.

[Basementdweller]

As I wrote in the now missing thread, my belief is that their reason for leaving and creating their own group was not really about gays, but about non-sectarianism. The vote was the signal that their 20 year quest to turn the BSA into a conservative Christians first club (anyone can join, as long as they recognize that non-conservative Christians are second class members) had failed. I've been reading the forums on OnMyHonor.org and now the new web site, and the gay question is definitely secondary to the religion question. At least for most of the forum posters. Given what some of those posters had wrote (why we need to keep the dirty Muslims out, or why we shouldn't allow Jews), I'm glad those particular posters are leaving. And the lack of "I disagree" posts in response was disturbing (there were a few). But these were just forum posters, not arguments from the founders. I just hope it doesn't reflect the attitudes of the general membership. I personally think it was discussions like this, that became one of the reasons they deleted the old forums when they launched.

 

As for the new organization as a whole, I wish them well. There is plenty of room in this world for good youth groups!

I feel sad for you guys....

 

I understand why my unit is discriminated against.....We are mostly mud races........

 

Never seen catholics and protestant and methodist get into it.....Guess in my area we are all poor and that is the great equalizer.

[Basementdweller]

Concerning the program of Trail Life, one press release points to this gentleman:

 

"John Burkitt Considered by many to be one of the greatest Boy Scout historians alive today having compared, studied and analyzed every Boy Scout, Cub Scout and Scoutmaster handbook ever published from the original Baden Powell’s “Scouting for Boys†to the present. John has served as the primary editor and author of the first edition of the Adventuring handbook that will be used in the Trail Life USA program." (my note: Adventuring is the program for grades 9-12)

 

His name rings absolutely no bells for me. I was curious if any of you folks have heard of him.

might be this fellow

 

http://www.danbearddistrict.org/forums/member.php?u=165

[moosetracker]

Concerning the program of Trail Life, one press release points to this gentleman:

 

"John Burkitt Considered by many to be one of the greatest Boy Scout historians alive today having compared, studied and analyzed every Boy Scout, Cub Scout and Scoutmaster handbook ever published from the original Baden Powell’s “Scouting for Boys†to the present. John has served as the primary editor and author of the first edition of the Adventuring handbook that will be used in the Trail Life USA program." (my note: Adventuring is the program for grades 9-12)

 

His name rings absolutely no bells for me. I was curious if any of you folks have heard of him.

If that's all that's on him, it is pretty unimpressive. *yawn*

[WAKWIB]

Since it said he was something of a historian there had to be something on the internet by or about him.

Finally found his history site here.

 

http://www.internetscoutmuseum.com/about.html

 

[Basementdweller]

Since it said he was something of a historian there had to be something on the internet by or about him.

Finally found his history site here.

 

http://www.internetscoutmuseum.com/about.html

Nice find.......

 

Other than a bein a collector doesn't tell much about him.

[moosetracker]

As I wrote in the now missing thread, my belief is that their reason for leaving and creating their own group was not really about gays, but about non-sectarianism. The vote was the signal that their 20 year quest to turn the BSA into a conservative Christians first club (anyone can join, as long as they recognize that non-conservative Christians are second class members) had failed. I've been reading the forums on OnMyHonor.org and now the new web site, and the gay question is definitely secondary to the religion question. At least for most of the forum posters. Given what some of those posters had wrote (why we need to keep the dirty Muslims out, or why we shouldn't allow Jews), I'm glad those particular posters are leaving. And the lack of "I disagree" posts in response was disturbing (there were a few). But these were just forum posters, not arguments from the founders. I just hope it doesn't reflect the attitudes of the general membership. I personally think it was discussions like this, that became one of the reasons they deleted the old forums when they launched.

 

As for the new organization as a whole, I wish them well. There is plenty of room in this world for good youth groups!

Basement, same here.. That must be a bible belt thing. We do have the LDS not mingling.. But, if you mingle with them one on one, very nice people.. And at least in our district, I know that their is attempts to include them, invite them and let them know they are welcome.

[Eagledad]

As I wrote in the now missing thread, my belief is that their reason for leaving and creating their own group was not really about gays, but about non-sectarianism. The vote was the signal that their 20 year quest to turn the BSA into a conservative Christians first club (anyone can join, as long as they recognize that non-conservative Christians are second class members) had failed. I've been reading the forums on OnMyHonor.org and now the new web site, and the gay question is definitely secondary to the religion question. At least for most of the forum posters. Given what some of those posters had wrote (why we need to keep the dirty Muslims out, or why we shouldn't allow Jews), I'm glad those particular posters are leaving. And the lack of "I disagree" posts in response was disturbing (there were a few). But these were just forum posters, not arguments from the founders. I just hope it doesn't reflect the attitudes of the general membership. I personally think it was discussions like this, that became one of the reasons they deleted the old forums when they launched.

 

As for the new organization as a whole, I wish them well. There is plenty of room in this world for good youth groups!

Hey, hey, hey, don't let the ramblings of hypocritical discontents taint reality. Anyone can become a hater if they get obsessed with their anger. Despite the many false accusations that have been said on this forum the past few years about scouters, the program and especially it's members are very welcoming all over the country. I have never seen anything close in reality to anger and hate I've seen here. Barry

[Basementdweller]

A good part of the success of the BSA is that historically any boy in America was able to join. But for the last several decades, as America has become more ethnically and culturally diverse and open, some very fundamentalist Christian groups have been trying to exclude more and more people from the BSA. Basically these groups want the BSA to be the same as it was in the 1950s.

 

I don't see Trail Life USA becoming much more than another fringe scouting group. The BSA casts too large of a shadow.

Digital....first you need to get your facts straight...Yes the website I am linking too is bias.....but dates and such don't lie.

 

http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/html/bsa_-_race.html

 

 

So ED what your saying is that in the 70's when the last councils who practiced racial discrimination and forced to change by national....that was a bad thing????

 

My guys will love to hear that.....I am pretty sure we lost members out of that as well

 

From my experiences at resident camp, I can see a group of folks who would love this sort of a group...... While they say they will not openly discriminate against youth who are not christian, I doubt they will accolmadate other belief systems..

 

Of course isn't that why they left.

 

 

I am glad that the Community I live in is tolerant and supports each other.......We are many religions and colors, So we are not a monochromatic community....

 

I see another mighty whitey club.

[WAKWIB]

A good part of the success of the BSA is that historically any boy in America was able to join. But for the last several decades, as America has become more ethnically and culturally diverse and open, some very fundamentalist Christian groups have been trying to exclude more and more people from the BSA. Basically these groups want the BSA to be the same as it was in the 1950s.

 

I don't see Trail Life USA becoming much more than another fringe scouting group. The BSA casts too large of a shadow.

Gee, I don't know, Basement. The way you go on sometimes, I was under the impression you lived in the most racially charged and divided city in the world.

Just sayin'....

[Basementdweller]

A good part of the success of the BSA is that historically any boy in America was able to join. But for the last several decades, as America has become more ethnically and culturally diverse and open, some very fundamentalist Christian groups have been trying to exclude more and more people from the BSA. Basically these groups want the BSA to be the same as it was in the 1950s.

 

I don't see Trail Life USA becoming much more than another fringe scouting group. The BSA casts too large of a shadow.

wak..

 

When I speak of my community, I speak of those on my side of the beltway.....

 

The folks on the other side of the beltway belong to their own community. They do a great job making sure we are not welcome and do their best to keep us out. From the city ordinance introduced by the CC from one Pack who is also a Village council member to require permits for door to door sales.

 

Inside the beltway, we get along pretty well......Like most poor community's we have a high crime rate and violence. We fight over things like pride and women.....Not to mention gangs which is the biggest competitor to the BSA in my area.

[WAKWIB]

A good part of the success of the BSA is that historically any boy in America was able to join. But for the last several decades, as America has become more ethnically and culturally diverse and open, some very fundamentalist Christian groups have been trying to exclude more and more people from the BSA. Basically these groups want the BSA to be the same as it was in the 1950s.

 

I don't see Trail Life USA becoming much more than another fringe scouting group. The BSA casts too large of a shadow.

I appreciate where you are coming from, BD. I live in an ethnically diverse community myself. 50 years ago it was not so, but it has made an interesting transformation since the 90's.

But let's set that aside. There is nothing to suggest that Trail Life will automatically become a "mighty whitey club." Well, unless you make the logical fallacy that Christian equals white-only. This new organization want the Chartered Orgs to own this project completely...not some board of corporate suits. Surely you understand that there is an abundance of churches in the black, Hispanic, etc. communities that could easily sign-off on TLUSA's statement of faith and values. There is no "white only" stamp across the charter agreement. There is absolutely NO barrier! What BSA did in the past, in terms of color segregation is done and over. Trail Life does not intend to revisit or repackage that unfortunate practice.

[NeverAnEagle]

A good part of the success of the BSA is that historically any boy in America was able to join. But for the last several decades, as America has become more ethnically and culturally diverse and open, some very fundamentalist Christian groups have been trying to exclude more and more people from the BSA. Basically these groups want the BSA to be the same as it was in the 1950s.

 

I don't see Trail Life USA becoming much more than another fringe scouting group. The BSA casts too large of a shadow.

Basementdweller & WAKWIB

 

There still are councils who practice racial discrimination; now they just do it under the guise of "allowing units to choose their membership." Most of the units are sponsored by churches and a lot of churches do not allow non-whites to join their congregations, hence they are prohibited from joining the unit as well.

[Basementdweller]

A good part of the success of the BSA is that historically any boy in America was able to join. But for the last several decades, as America has become more ethnically and culturally diverse and open, some very fundamentalist Christian groups have been trying to exclude more and more people from the BSA. Basically these groups want the BSA to be the same as it was in the 1950s.

 

I don't see Trail Life USA becoming much more than another fringe scouting group. The BSA casts too large of a shadow.

How sad for you...

 

I am glad I live in a different United States than you.

[DigitalScout]

Trail Life USA is just playing a big joke on societal "political correctness." They say that anyone can join including Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs, etc. as long as they accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. And gay people can even join as long as nobody ever finds out that they are gay (i.e., stay in the closet).

 

TL is actually being very clever. They would take a lot of heat and media backlash if they were blunt and said "Christians-only" and "no gays." So by saying "anyone can join" keeps the heat off.