Trail Life confused over who they are?????

[JoeBob]

It's not too surprising that not many want to join. TLUSA sounds like a great program if you are in the aristocracy (Southern Baptist, Pentecost, Church of Christ) but not so good if you are peasant (everyone else).

I don't know, DigitalScoot, you sound awfully judgmental of folks who just want to practice their religion in their own way.

I was raised Southern Baptist, but I've been Presbyterian, Methodist (twice), Episcopalian, and am now Catholic for the second time. Don't try that at home.

In no denomination did I encounter an aristocracy/peasant relationship or attitude.

Although Catholics are stingy with the wafer, that's because they believe it becomes the body of Christ and should be revered by believers, and they like to use it as the carrot to get you to confession.

Most Christians that I know are just happy that you've found God. They don't care what flavor your enjoying.

 

And while we're on the subject of things I don't know, I can't figure out your avatar. Is that supposed to be bat wings, or a butt hole?

[King Ding Dong]

I was wondering about that Scouter99.. If the BSA group is mainly of the boys whose families are members of the church, their parents may have enough "buy in" to this change, but if the youth are not members of the church, the parents and boys may not have the same attitude toward it, and will move to units still running the BSA program.

If the military power and abuse structure is what turns his crank then Scouting is probably not the best fit for him. If he is thinking of a military career I would at least arm him with the tools to research their system of justice. If he in any way thinks the scales are tilted against him on the civilian side, the military side is for lack of a better word Nuts.

[King Ding Dong]

It's not too surprising that not many want to join. TLUSA sounds like a great program if you are in the aristocracy (Southern Baptist, Pentecost, Church of Christ) but not so good if you are peasant (everyone else).

This past summer my son and I made a goal to hit all 9 roller coasters at Six Flags. We did it and and went for round two, after the first coaster on round two we were not feeling so well. Don't try that at home

[Eagledad]

I was wondering about that Scouter99.. If the BSA group is mainly of the boys whose families are members of the church, their parents may have enough "buy in" to this change, but if the youth are not members of the church, the parents and boys may not have the same attitude toward it, and will move to units still running the BSA program.

Why can't your SPL do both BD, a couple of my better SPLs were also in ROTC.

[moosetracker]

JoeBob - "And while we're on the subject of things I don't know, I can't figure out your avatar. Is that supposed to be bat wings, or a butt hole? "

 

That's funny JoeBob, because I did the same thing either this morning or yesterday.. I saw the butthole, then looked closer and saw the (what I thought to be flaming wings, sort of like a Phoenix".. It certainly is sort of like those inkblots where maybe you see the face or you see the vase..

 

I do think church members are relatively nice to fellow church members, and agree it is not an aristocracy/peasant thing.. You can have rich or poor in any denomination.. But, not so sure that all religions are equally civil to members of other religions.. You definitely do have many who believe their religion is the one true belief, and everyone not of their faith is going to hell. Not ALL faiths mind you.. Not saying that.. But, it is in some failths, sometime taught by the leaders of the faith and sometimes. if not preached to think that way, you just have your independent thinkers who think and act that way..

[DigitalScout]

It's not too surprising that not many want to join. TLUSA sounds like a great program if you are in the aristocracy (Southern Baptist, Pentecost, Church of Christ) but not so good if you are peasant (everyone else).

Are you making fun of my avatar? I never looked at it sexually but I would have gone with a woman's cleavage.

[DigitalScout]

Let's see: the TLUSA was started mainly by Southern Baptists and they get to make the rules and decide the leaders. They devised rules such that the CO and unit leaders must believe in the Triune God and belong to "pure" churches. Catholics, Methodists, Episcopalians, Mormons and others are not "pure" since their churches allow gay members and/or clergy; they are welcome to join but are prohibited from leadership positions and decision making. They've set up two classes of membership. Why would anyone join if they are stuck in the lower class?

 

​Also, the way I read their Statement of Faith, divorced men and women are also excluded from leadership. They sure are fishing with a small net.

[WAKWIB]

Let's see: the TLUSA was started mainly by Southern Baptists and they get to make the rules and decide the leaders. They devised rules such that the CO and unit leaders must believe in the Triune God and belong to "pure" churches. Catholics, Methodists, Episcopalians, Mormons and others are not "pure" since their churches allow gay members and/or clergy; they are welcome to join but are prohibited from leadership positions and decision making. They've set up two classes of membership. Why would anyone join if they are stuck in the lower class?

 

​Also, the way I read their Statement of Faith, divorced men and women are also excluded from leadership. They sure are fishing with a small net.

Digi. Not a thing you said is your last statement is factual.

[WAKWIB]

Let's see: the TLUSA was started mainly by Southern Baptists and they get to make the rules and decide the leaders. They devised rules such that the CO and unit leaders must believe in the Triune God and belong to "pure" churches. Catholics, Methodists, Episcopalians, Mormons and others are not "pure" since their churches allow gay members and/or clergy; they are welcome to join but are prohibited from leadership positions and decision making. They've set up two classes of membership. Why would anyone join if they are stuck in the lower class?

 

​Also, the way I read their Statement of Faith, divorced men and women are also excluded from leadership. They sure are fishing with a small net.

1. I've been following this group since May and I don't have a clue as to the denominational affiliation of the 50+ people involved in its formation. 2. Purity refers to sexual purity that all Christian churches uphold to a certain extent, even those who have a more liberal view of homosexuality. 3. There are no "classes" of membership. You are a card-carrying member or you are not a member at all. 3. There is not a mention in the Statement of Faith about divorce.

[moosetracker]

Let's see: the TLUSA was started mainly by Southern Baptists and they get to make the rules and decide the leaders. They devised rules such that the CO and unit leaders must believe in the Triune God and belong to "pure" churches. Catholics, Methodists, Episcopalians, Mormons and others are not "pure" since their churches allow gay members and/or clergy; they are welcome to join but are prohibited from leadership positions and decision making. They've set up two classes of membership. Why would anyone join if they are stuck in the lower class?

 

​Also, the way I read their Statement of Faith, divorced men and women are also excluded from leadership. They sure are fishing with a small net.

I was born and raised Protestant.. I can tell you, purity was not all about sexual action, in fact that was never even brought up or hinted at. It had to do with being pure in heart, thought, deed and action.. Being more altruistic, then self-centered..

 

Hmm.. thought I wrote something yesterday, but I don't see it.. Perhaps I didn't hit the "Post" button.. I am learning something new with DS's, post.. He listed Methodists in this conservative group.. I thought he had to be wrong. Our troop is sponsored by the United Methodists.. I remember about 10 years or so ago them going through having a different attitude toward homosexuals, and some of the civil war that went on at that time.. They are now very liberal minded and hang our rainbow colored banner with (I forget the exact saying, but something stating they welcome all..) I had to look it up.. So I guess the United Methodist are very welcoming, where the Episcopal Methodist are a little more selective.. Didn't know their were two (actually 3 as their is a free Methodist which is smallest, and I never heard of..) Since United Methodist shorten their title to "Methodist" and the Episcopal Methodist shorten their name to "Episcopal", I never saw the connection.. Both groups have differing views on this topic.. Guess, I need to start clarify "United Methodist" when I make statements about their liberal views on the subject.. Learn something new everyday..

[packsaddle]

When there is more revealed about TLUSA's actual program and organizational structure , it might be interesting to have a topic where there is some comparisons made between their operation and the ours in BSA. There may be some good ideas floating around in a new and forming group that we could borrow and modify to make our program better.

Hopefully if that more positive and constructive topic is introduced it will not get deleted by a moderator or the site owner. Yeah, I know this topic that survived the purge about TL being "confused" about who they are makes it easy to take shots at them and makes us real Scouters feel so much better about ourselves. I do think a more objective study of the nuts and bolts of a potential competitor could be more constructive and helpful to us as we do our jobs of serving youth.

The OTHER reason that I think NJ is correct is that from what I understand of those original disappeared posts, they didn't actually contain anything that warranted deletion, at least in comparison to some of the much more incendiary topics that have been 'floated' in these forums in the past. I'd bet the ranch on the 'coincidence' option.

[packsaddle]

It's not too surprising that not many want to join. TLUSA sounds like a great program if you are in the aristocracy (Southern Baptist, Pentecost, Church of Christ) but not so good if you are peasant (everyone else).

comment about the previous comment: HUH?

[packsaddle]

JoeBob - "And while we're on the subject of things I don't know, I can't figure out your avatar. Is that supposed to be bat wings, or a butt hole? "

 

That's funny JoeBob, because I did the same thing either this morning or yesterday.. I saw the butthole, then looked closer and saw the (what I thought to be flaming wings, sort of like a Phoenix".. It certainly is sort of like those inkblots where maybe you see the face or you see the vase..

 

I do think church members are relatively nice to fellow church members, and agree it is not an aristocracy/peasant thing.. You can have rich or poor in any denomination.. But, not so sure that all religions are equally civil to members of other religions.. You definitely do have many who believe their religion is the one true belief, and everyone not of their faith is going to hell. Not ALL faiths mind you.. Not saying that.. But, it is in some failths, sometime taught by the leaders of the faith and sometimes. if not preached to think that way, you just have your independent thinkers who think and act that way..

OK, I'm beginning to get the 'picture'. Fact is, from the very beginning, that avatar has always brought the words "Sturm Ruger" to my mind...yeah, I know it's not even close but that's what pops into this tortured mind.

[DigitalScout]

Let's see: the TLUSA was started mainly by Southern Baptists and they get to make the rules and decide the leaders. They devised rules such that the CO and unit leaders must believe in the Triune God and belong to "pure" churches. Catholics, Methodists, Episcopalians, Mormons and others are not "pure" since their churches allow gay members and/or clergy; they are welcome to join but are prohibited from leadership positions and decision making. They've set up two classes of membership. Why would anyone join if they are stuck in the lower class?

 

​Also, the way I read their Statement of Faith, divorced men and women are also excluded from leadership. They sure are fishing with a small net.

The TLUSA Statement of Faith, which must be commited to by chartered orgs and all leaders, includes the following:

 

We believe God calls us to lives of purity, service, stewardship and integrity:

 

Purity – God calls us to lives of holiness, being pure of heart, mind, word and deed. We are to reserve sexual activity for the sanctity of marriage, a

lifelong commitment

before God between a man and a woman.

(emphasis added)

[moosetracker]

Well the Pure of heart, mind, word and deed, sounds familure, put the addition part is definitely just people making their own rules.

 

The highlighted statement is funny though.. So, that means no one who has divorced (even if not remarried), nor a widower starts a new relationship (regardless of if they marry or not.), nor anyone whose relationship turns physical before they wed (even if it is their one and only).. That rules out pretty much everyone on the planet, except maybe those whose looks or personality causes them never to find love.