NeverAnEagle Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 This made the news recently and no one is talking about it. I caught the tale end of the segment on the news while on vacation and searched for more information online in order to get a better picture of the whole story. http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2021715907_boyscoutlawsuitxml.html While I was searching I came across this from my own council; nobody in my council is talking about it, and even the news seems to be keeping it hush-hush. In fact, many claim that this never happened, even though you can read about online. http://www.kxly.com/news/spokane-news/lawsuit-filed-against-lds-church-boy-scouts-over-molestation-claims/-/101214/20716022/-/n8q1voz/-/index.html This comes on the heals of a 2007/2008 lawsuit where 5 other boys were molested at one of our councils camps. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2026&dat=20080430&id=ndsyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=RPAFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6775,143215 Then in 2008, two women were raped on the same property, but that was hushed up because they were over 18, so there wasn't the sensational media appeal that comes with a case involving minors. All this makes me wonder if people who hold paid BSA positions shouldn't be required to undergo psychological evaluations and testing before being offered a job. I have a government position that requires me to meet people in there homes, often times in a one-on-one situation; I under-went a huge amount of psychological testing and evaluations before they would turn me loose in public. It would be interesting to know how many council executives would be able to make ethical decisions when faced with unpleasant situations, such as those listed above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Nice rant but what's your point.... Pervs will be pervs all we can do is follow YP guidelines and train our boys recognize it and report it. I can control and report what I see......I will make sure my little slice of pie runs as it should. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 First link is no longer valid.. 2nd doesn't really say when the abuse happens, but I get a slight indication that it was not current, rather someone pulled the names out of the recently opened files and talked the boys (now men) into doing a lawsuit now. The 3rd link I didn't see any article on the boy scouts, closest story was phasing out a forestry program at Washington State college. As basementdweller stated.. Make sure your program follows the youth protection rules.. If you have a son in the program, the best thing as a parent is to volunteer in the program which allows you the ability to make sure the program is following safety procedures, and you know and trust those in direct contact leadership roles, or are at the event yourself to keep an eye on things if you have doubt about one of your leaders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 All this makes me wonder if people who hold paid BSA positions shouldn't be required to undergo psychological evaluations and testing before being offered a job. Two things you have to ask yourself: 1. Who pays for the testing? 2. Will it be reliable? It's one thing to screen folks for routine 1-on-1 contact. But there should be no 1-on-1 contact in the BSA! Is there a test that will find the guy/gal who will violate the 1-on-1 principle? Can you identify the person who will assault their colleague before the do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSS_Chris Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Suing the BSA is a growth industry, most probably because the BSA has a history of taking legal positions that make juries want to see them suffer. The 2010 Portland judgement against the BSA showed this. There were people within the organization who had knowledge of what was going on, swept it under the rug, then went to court with the "we can do what we want because of our Congressional charter" attitude and legal arguments as sound as those for the new registration fee increase. The juries saw right through it, and hit them with $18.5 million in punitive damages. The judge saw through it too, and ordered the secret files to be released. Here is the press release from the plaintiff's attorney on this latest case. Interesting that in this case, two professional Scouters are named as perpetrators. http://blog.kosnoff.com/a-dozen-victims-identified-in-sex-abuse-case-against-boy-scouts-of-america/ Six months ago, this lawyer's news releases said he was representing 80 people against the BSA. Now it's 100. This isn't going to be pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSS_Chris Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Suing the BSA is a growth industry, most probably because the BSA has a history of taking legal positions that make juries want to see them suffer. The 2010 Portland judgement against the BSA showed this. There were people within the organization who had knowledge of what was going on, swept it under the rug, then went to court with the "we can do what we want because of our Congressional charter" attitude and legal arguments as sound as those for the new registration fee increase. The juries saw right through it, and hit them with $18.5 million in punitive damages. The judge saw through it too, and ordered the secret files to be released. Here is the press release from the plaintiff's attorney on this latest case. Interesting that in this case, two professional Scouters are named as perpetrators. http://blog.kosnoff.com/a-dozen-victims-identified-in-sex-abuse-case-against-boy-scouts-of-america/ Six months ago, this lawyer's news releases said he was representing 80 people against the BSA. Now it's 100. This isn't going to be pretty. The appellate opinion they cite in the press release is interesting. The BSA is off the hook . In this case, the LDS ward appointed a volunteer to act as ASM for a ward-sponsored troop without him registering with the BSA. That ASM then abused the plaintiff on multiple occasions, including during Scout events. http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/pdf/676458.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Nice rant but what's your point.... Pervs will be pervs all we can do is follow YP guidelines and train our boys recognize it and report it. I can control and report what I see......I will make sure my little slice of pie runs as it should. Exactly! The YP guidelines keep those of us who aren't pervs out of being falsely accused. Nothing will stop the pervs but vigilance, by the leaders and the boys. We have a local lawyer (also a scout leader) who specializes in sexual abuse to talk to our scouts about once a year. He discusses one major aspect of protection a year. Like you, I keep my eyes and ears open, and thankfully, I haven't noticed anything predatory. If I do, I will have no problems reporting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Suing the BSA is a growth industry, most probably because the BSA has a history of taking legal positions that make juries want to see them suffer. The 2010 Portland judgement against the BSA showed this. There were people within the organization who had knowledge of what was going on, swept it under the rug, then went to court with the "we can do what we want because of our Congressional charter" attitude and legal arguments as sound as those for the new registration fee increase. The juries saw right through it, and hit them with $18.5 million in punitive damages. The judge saw through it too, and ordered the secret files to be released. Here is the press release from the plaintiff's attorney on this latest case. Interesting that in this case, two professional Scouters are named as perpetrators. http://blog.kosnoff.com/a-dozen-victims-identified-in-sex-abuse-case-against-boy-scouts-of-america/ Six months ago, this lawyer's news releases said he was representing 80 people against the BSA. Now it's 100. This isn't going to be pretty. BSA dances on a grey line of running programs, screening volunteers and then also trying to keep arms length and letting the charter org take responsibility. But most charter orgs (except LDS) have very little involvement with the program. So ... I doubt BSA is totally off the hook. For those who care, I think BSA did more than was standard at the time abuses occurred. I'm not saying BSA was perfect and I'm not saying individuals didn't fail to live up to their responsibilities. But BSA had more in place than most of society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAnEagle Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 Nice rant but what's your point.... Pervs will be pervs all we can do is follow YP guidelines and train our boys recognize it and report it. I can control and report what I see......I will make sure my little slice of pie runs as it should. Exactly! The YP guidelines keep those of us who aren't pervs out of being falsely accused. Nothing will stop the pervs but vigilance, by the leaders and the boys. We have a local lawyer (also a scout leader) who specializes in sexual abuse to talk to our scouts about once a year. He discusses one major aspect of protection a year. Like you, I keep my eyes and ears open, and thankfully, I haven't noticed anything predatory. If I do, I will have no problems reporting it. YP guidelines only work if they are enforced. The problem is that professional scouters, not only don't make sure they are enforced, but when abuse is brought forward they try to hide that fact rather than publicly denounce the abuser. If BSA paid personnel made a point of openly and publicly denouncing the abusers as soon as abuse was brought to their attention, perverts might start looking for another organization to hide in. As it stands now, the Council staff are complicit in the abuse because they knew about it and allow it to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAnEagle Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 All this makes me wonder if people who hold paid BSA positions shouldn't be required to undergo psychological evaluations and testing before being offered a job. Two things you have to ask yourself: 1. Who pays for the testing? 2. Will it be reliable? It's one thing to screen folks for routine 1-on-1 contact. But there should be no 1-on-1 contact in the BSA! Is there a test that will find the guy/gal who will violate the 1-on-1 principle? Can you identify the person who will assault their colleague before the do it? You can screen out applicants that have a disproportional amount of deviant tenancies. Most of the testing is computer based so after you've paid for the software, an organization like BSA would only need 1 or 2 people in interpret any results that got a red flag. You wouldn't need to do it for everyone, just paid positions. Granted perverts will be drawn to where-ever there are kids, the problem seems to be that the higher-up mucky-mucks don't investigate allegations of abuse, they'd rather hide it. Those are the guys who need to be tested to see if they can make ethical decisions. When a kid comes forward and says he was abused you should have the balls to confront it and protect the kid, not try to hid the incident and keep it out of the media for the sake of "protecting BSA's Brand name!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Nice rant but what's your point.... Pervs will be pervs all we can do is follow YP guidelines and train our boys recognize it and report it. I can control and report what I see......I will make sure my little slice of pie runs as it should. Exactly! The YP guidelines keep those of us who aren't pervs out of being falsely accused. Nothing will stop the pervs but vigilance, by the leaders and the boys. We have a local lawyer (also a scout leader) who specializes in sexual abuse to talk to our scouts about once a year. He discusses one major aspect of protection a year. Like you, I keep my eyes and ears open, and thankfully, I haven't noticed anything predatory. If I do, I will have no problems reporting it. Your chalking up the Duh points NAE... Everyone is responsible for youth protection.....If it is any other way something will happen. The boys have to look out for one another....The adults have to watch out for each other...... Lets face it a lad who is mad at his SM could really screw him over by reporting that he abused him...... Protection from false accusations is another reason for two deep leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouter99 Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 YP guidelines only work if they are enforced. The problem is that professional scouters, not only don't make sure they are enforced, but when abuse is brought forward they try to hide that fact rather than publicly denounce the abuser. If BSA paid personnel made a point of openly and publicly denouncing the abusers as soon as abuse was brought to their attention, perverts might start looking for another organization to hide in. As it stands now, the Council staff are complicit in the abuse because they knew about it and allow it to continue. People of your opinion crack me up: So, you think that BSA hides jillions of pedophiles and yet you bring your son and your friends' sons into the program? So are you an idiot, or are you a cold-hearted psychopath who doesn't care, or are you a pedophile yourself? What you are is an uninformed alarmist. The occurrence of abuse in BSA is up to 70 times lower than in society in general. You can educate yourself starting here: http://www.scouter.com/forum/issues-...olunteer-files There are absolutely individuals within Scouting--parents, volunteers, and professionals--who have mishandled certain cases, and even some who have intentionally covered them up. But the BSA as a whole has a system, it is the best out there, and the numbers show it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 I think a couple of things. First, these lawyers are simply money grubbers. Look at their web site and tell me they are not, remembering that they get a huge portion of any judgment. They are no better than the people allowed to advertise now on TV looking for someone, anyone who may have had ill effects from drugs, or been in an accident, and so on. They are taking things decades old and beating the bushes until they find someone to cooperate with them because they think they will get rich. Read the actual info on the Ineligible Volunteer files that has been posted, especially the details of those in the sampling done in the research. A majority WERE brought to the authorities, and many were prosecuted; we really do not know how many were specifically not due to lack of concrete evidence, parental choice, or simply the era they were in. And the files DID keep some out by being there, even in the age before computers. It continues to astonish me how people cannot understand that much of the problem with these suits is that the occurrences happened decades ago when the general public and community responses were completely different. It was also before EASY cross referencing by computer, so it had to be done by phone or mail. Of course today, almost any REAL evidence or actual witnesses are gone in most of the cases being DUG out of these files by the ambulance chaser lawyers. Take these facts and add to them the current antipathy by many against the BSA in general, along with the way the media skews everything, and these guys see slam dunks. Does anybody remember the earlier "sexual predator" witch hunts that ruined peoples' lives when most were finally exonerated too late? As some have pointed out, these same people, if they were really trying to help people, would be digging in the far richer fields of schools and youth sports. But, they do not have the same media antipathy or the files that were kept in an attempt to actually keep some of this from occurring. But, as I have often said of late; common sense and actual reason are not generally seen in today's society. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Agree with Scouter99 and skeptic.. Just adding the following to this comment of NeverAnEagle: "As it stands now, the Council staff are complicit in the abuse because they knew about it and allow it to continue. " Maybe you can make that accusation in past history, But now.. NO.. The YP rules are that you as the volunteer make the call to the police yourself and DSS if the abuse is the scouts family member.. THEN you call the Scout executive.. this has been in practice for at least 5 years, maybe longer,( I think it changed around the time of the Catholic priest scandal.). Anyway, the Council staff have no way to allow it to continue, if you follow the youth protection training. And as stated, they didn't allow it to continue which is why they were listed in the files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAnEagle Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 Nice rant but what's your point.... Pervs will be pervs all we can do is follow YP guidelines and train our boys recognize it and report it. I can control and report what I see......I will make sure my little slice of pie runs as it should. Exactly! The YP guidelines keep those of us who aren't pervs out of being falsely accused. Nothing will stop the pervs but vigilance, by the leaders and the boys. We have a local lawyer (also a scout leader) who specializes in sexual abuse to talk to our scouts about once a year. He discusses one major aspect of protection a year. Like you, I keep my eyes and ears open, and thankfully, I haven't noticed anything predatory. If I do, I will have no problems reporting it. My boys don't attend camp in our council anymore because the camp dose not comply with YP Guidelines. We were there in 2008 in the midst of the whole trial over the boys who were molested on Camp the previous year, so I guess I was more vigilante than I otherwise would be; but I watched and was appalled by what I saw. The Archery guy would ask 11 yr old Scouts to stay behind to help find arrows after classes. They would be alone, just him and the little Scout. There were multiple instances where I would get back to camp from a shower and ask where some boy was off to, only to learn that a staff member had stopped by camp and gone off alone with the lad, leaving me to track them down, often in the woods well after dark. The Camp Director was unconcerned, which left me very concerned. I reported this to council and was labeled a trouble maker for my efforts. Now there are 4 more coming forward; granted for them the abuse was awhile ago, but when you think how hard it is to get the YP guidelines enforced; I'm betting it's still happening. Think of the statistics for women; I read somewhere that 1 in 4 women are raped, but very few actually report it and that's after years of the feminist movement telling them to come forward. How much harder would it be for a young lad to come forward??? Far more difficult I would bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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