Will there be a new policy on unit dues?

[fred johnson]

ARGH !!!

 

Our council is asking us to pay 2014 prices this December when our units recharter. We have already printed our recruiting materials and already received some checks. Are we supposed to go out and ask for more money? Is the money supposed to mystically appear? Or do we guess who won't continue and drop them and use their money to cover the other person. (Ethical issue)

 

This is going to get ugly quick.

 

ARGH !!!

[King Ding Dong]

ARGH !!!

 

Our council is asking us to pay 2014 prices this December when our units recharter. We have already printed our recruiting materials and already received some checks. Are we supposed to go out and ask for more money? Is the money supposed to mystically appear? Or do we guess who won't continue and drop them and use their money to cover the other person. (Ethical issue)

 

This is going to get ugly quick.

 

ARGH !!!

Simmer down, International Talk Like a Pirrrrate Day is not until the 19th.

 

Didn't you catch that all December recharrrrters had to pay the $24 ? That's the big issue here. I rrrrreally don't have an issue with the $9 (I do, but for other reasons). The question is do we point fingerrrrs at National, suck it up and sell more popcorn, drrrrop events, pad a couple of events or trrrry and spin it best we can ? My currrrrrent feeling is take it out of FOS this yearrrrr unless I see a betterrrrr idea. I know the Pack will not make a FOS contrrrrribution this yearrrrr.

 

This was a rrrrreal boneheaded move on Brrrrock's parrrrt.

[fred johnson]

The amount isn't that big but I already contribute plenty and I have many in our pack that are stickers for exact amounts, precision reimbursements, etc. I'm sure we will be fine. But we need to make up the difference.

 

I suspect it will be something silly like the week we go to recharter we will review the roster. If someone has not attended for three months, we will not renew their membership even if they paid dues. 2nd year Webelos? You want us to pay $24 plus $12 (because we've done boy's life in the past) for two months of pack membership. No. They can ask their troop to cover that. Plus, they have to submit a new membership application anyway when they join the troop. Save $36 a scout by not renewing them in December.

 

It just irks me no end. We've already got all the fliers and discussed and budgeted for our year.

 

I am not one to blame national. I love BSA. But someone really really screwed up at national big time to have this happen like it is. If it was my company, seriously, someone would get fired. This is going to have bottom line impact and screw things up for many people.

[Basementdweller]

Little slow here...

 

This is about cub scout recruiting flyers that are provided free of charge from the council to the unit......The hub bub is that the council is putting a low ball price on them...

 

 

Well folks, WE have always done our own flyers, WE have control as to what dollar amount is put on them, WE put them in our schools and WE do the boy talks.

 

 

So don't rely on Council to do it......You know your program and fees better than they do....You can be completely honest and upfront with the parents....

[TSS_Chris]

Little slow here...

 

This is about cub scout recruiting flyers that are provided free of charge from the council to the unit......The hub bub is that the council is putting a low ball price on them...

 

 

Well folks, WE have always done our own flyers, WE have control as to what dollar amount is put on them, WE put them in our schools and WE do the boy talks.

 

 

So don't rely on Council to do it......You know your program and fees better than they do....You can be completely honest and upfront with the parents....

Actually, BD, these Cub Scout recruiting fliers are being MAILED by the council directly to all households with Cub Scout age boys. These will have my Pack and personal contact info on them, AND the low-ball price. This is my problem.

 

On one hand, it's great that they are sending these, since our local school districts don't allow us to do boy talks. Sending home a piece of paper requires the personal approval of the Superintendent of Schools. She has an equal opportunity policy of rejecting everything.

 

I can be honest and upfront, but only if I get to the parents first. When the BSA makes an end run around me, that makes me mad.

[Basementdweller]

Little slow here...

 

This is about cub scout recruiting flyers that are provided free of charge from the council to the unit......The hub bub is that the council is putting a low ball price on them...

 

 

Well folks, WE have always done our own flyers, WE have control as to what dollar amount is put on them, WE put them in our schools and WE do the boy talks.

 

 

So don't rely on Council to do it......You know your program and fees better than they do....You can be completely honest and upfront with the parents....

hmmmm,

 

Seems like a lot of money for just going fishing.

[TSS_Chris]

Little slow here...

 

This is about cub scout recruiting flyers that are provided free of charge from the council to the unit......The hub bub is that the council is putting a low ball price on them...

 

 

Well folks, WE have always done our own flyers, WE have control as to what dollar amount is put on them, WE put them in our schools and WE do the boy talks.

 

 

So don't rely on Council to do it......You know your program and fees better than they do....You can be completely honest and upfront with the parents....

Yes it is. That's why I'm exploring this paranoid delusion.

 

As Joseph Heller said, “Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after youâ€Â

[5yearscouter]

We have debated that we can keep all of our fees the same this year if we just drop all the Boy's Life subscriptions.... You think other units will consider that option? Wonder what National will think of that option?

 

We've dealt with council/district publishing flyers with low ball prices to join and flooding the local schools with the flyers for years. We'd have a local small zoo give free admittance to any scout or scout leader in uniform in conjunction with a recruiting day. The flyer would say in May that it would be like $8 to get into the zoo and pay for registration in your cub scouts for the rest of the year. Our unit would get a few people, but usually they'd join and promptly drop--because the $8 to join would be less than the cost of going to the zoo for the day--so parents would already have gotten their money's worth even if they never went to a scout meeting at all.

 

The couple of scouts we got out of that program that stuck around had understanding parents that realized that was just registration fee for national BSA and to actualy do anything they'd have to pay some other kind of fee.

 

 

It may be the easiest way to approach this is that this is National's registration fee, and then the rest is a monthly dues payment to cover the cost of materials--which it's a lot easier if you just pay that $x per month up front please or in 2 easy payments. you get the same $ but it doesn't seem as much like a bait and switch thing.

 

[jc2008]

All our scouts pay their own dues, so the fee is not the responsibility of our Pack.

 

As for them mailing out flyers with YOUR info and this "wrong" price, that is something that your DE should not be doing.

 

We have 23 or so units in our District (troops and packs), and the Pack flyers that go out for recruitment are all specific to one of our 12 packs in our district. So the prices reflected on the flyers are what it will cost for the scout to join that Pack. In our area, some packs have no dues, some have $10 dues, some have $50 and one even has $150 dues. Each pack's dues covers different things and are highly dependant with how motivated they are during fundraising. (ie the $10 dues pack hits the popcorn sale hard, while the $50 due pack just really does takehome if the kids want to).

 

So our flyers that are specific to a pack do say the exact amount for that pack to join up.

[kari_cardi]

Our council now puts the registration fee on the flyers that go home with interested boys. At first it was a problem as it was a LOT less than we were asking of new families. We adapted and it isn't a problem any more.

• We ask just for the amount to register at this point in time with the application. This increased the number of boys who sign up on registration night.
  
• We present the cost of our pack dues and when payments are due - end of September. We used to ask for all of it up front with the app. This way works better anyway.
  
• We show in detail what the pack dues cover, and emphasize that the registration fee goes to National, not us.
  
• We tell them how they can use popcorn sales to reduce the cost of scouting. Most don't take advantage of this but giving them the option makes the cost more palatable.
  

[Pack18Alex]

I think it's more cynical than that... National's numbers are down, this would be a one year juicing... which is critical to sell the membership guidelines change as a positive one so they can change it for scouters in the next two years and get corporate money back.

 

In the past year they've been talking about gay people, fat scouts, and zip lines for a program that recruits 6 year olds to wear uniforms and do art projects. National pays ZERO attention to the cub scout program, where 90%+ of Scout Recruiting takes place. Middle/High School scouts hate uniforms, solution, talk about getting rid of uniforms (which the Cub Scouts LOVE). More high adventure for older scouts, no resources for Cubs. It's dumb... Despite all that, they desperately need to show that the Membership Guideline change was a positive one, and that it "slowed the rate of membership loss." Solution, Council Resources for Join Scouting Night as long as you only charge $10/Youth, $5/Adult, then ask for more money later. Sure, plenty of the kids will drop out before a meeting, but National can show how great the membership numbers are. No time to finish up the Lions pilot and roll that out, when there is more High Adventure Scouting to plan... I don't care about the fee increase, I care that it was done boneheaded and confused...

 

JTE Guidelines: have a budget by 8/31/2013. My JTE Spreadsheet I'm supposed to fill out lists dues as 15/member. I'm now supposed to turn it in monthly, but my budget is broken. Stupid and sloppy for no reason.

 

Focus on cubs, not gay people. Drop the gay issue from Cub Scouts ALLTOGETHER, it's IRRELEVANT to a program for 6 to 10 year olds.

 

When someone asks me, my response, "I deal with Cub Scouts, if one of my boys is having sex, I'm calling the police, regardless of gender."

 

[King Ding Dong]

I think it's more cynical than that... National's numbers are down, this would be a one year juicing... which is critical to sell the membership guidelines change as a positive one so they can change it for scouters in the next two years and get corporate money back.

 

In the past year they've been talking about gay people, fat scouts, and zip lines for a program that recruits 6 year olds to wear uniforms and do art projects. National pays ZERO attention to the cub scout program, where 90%+ of Scout Recruiting takes place. Middle/High School scouts hate uniforms, solution, talk about getting rid of uniforms (which the Cub Scouts LOVE). More high adventure for older scouts, no resources for Cubs. It's dumb... Despite all that, they desperately need to show that the Membership Guideline change was a positive one, and that it "slowed the rate of membership loss." Solution, Council Resources for Join Scouting Night as long as you only charge $10/Youth, $5/Adult, then ask for more money later. Sure, plenty of the kids will drop out before a meeting, but National can show how great the membership numbers are. No time to finish up the Lions pilot and roll that out, when there is more High Adventure Scouting to plan... I don't care about the fee increase, I care that it was done boneheaded and confused...

 

JTE Guidelines: have a budget by 8/31/2013. My JTE Spreadsheet I'm supposed to fill out lists dues as 15/member. I'm now supposed to turn it in monthly, but my budget is broken. Stupid and sloppy for no reason.

 

Focus on cubs, not gay people. Drop the gay issue from Cub Scouts ALLTOGETHER, it's IRRELEVANT to a program for 6 to 10 year olds.

 

When someone asks me, my response, "I deal with Cub Scouts, if one of my boys is having sex, I'm calling the police, regardless of gender."

I agree with you to a point. Maybe I am unique, but as a parent I did not invest/investing in 5 years of Cubs just for the sake of doing Cubs. I only did it with the intention of moving to Boy Scouts. If I knew my boys would have no interest in Boy Scouts I never would have endured the "never-ending 5 years of indoor crafts called cub scouts".

 

The membership issue's relevance depends on your perspective. I really was not aware of the issue until a little over a year ago and I was really uncomfortable with the possibility my son could get kicked out if he was gay. From the perspective of some having gay leaders in cubs is a real issue to them. The sooner that bandaid gets ripped off the better.

[Basementdweller]

I think it's more cynical than that... National's numbers are down, this would be a one year juicing... which is critical to sell the membership guidelines change as a positive one so they can change it for scouters in the next two years and get corporate money back.

 

In the past year they've been talking about gay people, fat scouts, and zip lines for a program that recruits 6 year olds to wear uniforms and do art projects. National pays ZERO attention to the cub scout program, where 90%+ of Scout Recruiting takes place. Middle/High School scouts hate uniforms, solution, talk about getting rid of uniforms (which the Cub Scouts LOVE). More high adventure for older scouts, no resources for Cubs. It's dumb... Despite all that, they desperately need to show that the Membership Guideline change was a positive one, and that it "slowed the rate of membership loss." Solution, Council Resources for Join Scouting Night as long as you only charge $10/Youth, $5/Adult, then ask for more money later. Sure, plenty of the kids will drop out before a meeting, but National can show how great the membership numbers are. No time to finish up the Lions pilot and roll that out, when there is more High Adventure Scouting to plan... I don't care about the fee increase, I care that it was done boneheaded and confused...

 

JTE Guidelines: have a budget by 8/31/2013. My JTE Spreadsheet I'm supposed to fill out lists dues as 15/member. I'm now supposed to turn it in monthly, but my budget is broken. Stupid and sloppy for no reason.

 

Focus on cubs, not gay people. Drop the gay issue from Cub Scouts ALLTOGETHER, it's IRRELEVANT to a program for 6 to 10 year olds.

 

When someone asks me, my response, "I deal with Cub Scouts, if one of my boys is having sex, I'm calling the police, regardless of gender."

I am guessing your council doesn't have one of those multi million dollar cub world camps???????

 

You should see the one in Dan Beard council....Wow.

 

It has a Castle, fort mountain man village and miners camp......Very nice...

 

http://www.danbeard.org/camp/index.php?option=com_content&id=8&Itemid=25

[King Ding Dong]

I think it's more cynical than that... National's numbers are down, this would be a one year juicing... which is critical to sell the membership guidelines change as a positive one so they can change it for scouters in the next two years and get corporate money back.

 

In the past year they've been talking about gay people, fat scouts, and zip lines for a program that recruits 6 year olds to wear uniforms and do art projects. National pays ZERO attention to the cub scout program, where 90%+ of Scout Recruiting takes place. Middle/High School scouts hate uniforms, solution, talk about getting rid of uniforms (which the Cub Scouts LOVE). More high adventure for older scouts, no resources for Cubs. It's dumb... Despite all that, they desperately need to show that the Membership Guideline change was a positive one, and that it "slowed the rate of membership loss." Solution, Council Resources for Join Scouting Night as long as you only charge $10/Youth, $5/Adult, then ask for more money later. Sure, plenty of the kids will drop out before a meeting, but National can show how great the membership numbers are. No time to finish up the Lions pilot and roll that out, when there is more High Adventure Scouting to plan... I don't care about the fee increase, I care that it was done boneheaded and confused...

 

JTE Guidelines: have a budget by 8/31/2013. My JTE Spreadsheet I'm supposed to fill out lists dues as 15/member. I'm now supposed to turn it in monthly, but my budget is broken. Stupid and sloppy for no reason.

 

Focus on cubs, not gay people. Drop the gay issue from Cub Scouts ALLTOGETHER, it's IRRELEVANT to a program for 6 to 10 year olds.

 

When someone asks me, my response, "I deal with Cub Scouts, if one of my boys is having sex, I'm calling the police, regardless of gender."

Same idea but not on such a grand scale. But even if they did I wouldn't endure the endless crafts and popcorn sales just for a fancy playground. My old council had nothing, just primitive camp.

 

Do they charge to use the playground ? Mine charges for cub pack overnights comes out to about $5 a tent.

 

Remedial training for the good stuff with maybe some character education along the way. And PWD. They do half the stuff in school anyway.

[Pack18Alex]

I think it's more cynical than that... National's numbers are down, this would be a one year juicing... which is critical to sell the membership guidelines change as a positive one so they can change it for scouters in the next two years and get corporate money back.

 

In the past year they've been talking about gay people, fat scouts, and zip lines for a program that recruits 6 year olds to wear uniforms and do art projects. National pays ZERO attention to the cub scout program, where 90%+ of Scout Recruiting takes place. Middle/High School scouts hate uniforms, solution, talk about getting rid of uniforms (which the Cub Scouts LOVE). More high adventure for older scouts, no resources for Cubs. It's dumb... Despite all that, they desperately need to show that the Membership Guideline change was a positive one, and that it "slowed the rate of membership loss." Solution, Council Resources for Join Scouting Night as long as you only charge $10/Youth, $5/Adult, then ask for more money later. Sure, plenty of the kids will drop out before a meeting, but National can show how great the membership numbers are. No time to finish up the Lions pilot and roll that out, when there is more High Adventure Scouting to plan... I don't care about the fee increase, I care that it was done boneheaded and confused...

 

JTE Guidelines: have a budget by 8/31/2013. My JTE Spreadsheet I'm supposed to fill out lists dues as 15/member. I'm now supposed to turn it in monthly, but my budget is broken. Stupid and sloppy for no reason.

 

Focus on cubs, not gay people. Drop the gay issue from Cub Scouts ALLTOGETHER, it's IRRELEVANT to a program for 6 to 10 year olds.

 

When someone asks me, my response, "I deal with Cub Scouts, if one of my boys is having sex, I'm calling the police, regardless of gender."

You're not unique, you're making my point. Scouters don't care about cub scouts. They are the ones sold on Boy Scouts, they put time into cubs so their son will be doing Boy Scouts. The professionals are the same way, cub scouting is an add on program to get boys into Boy Scouts.

 

However, most parents that show up to a join scouting night are bringing their 6 year old son. The program they are sold on is cub scouts.

 

So the ones in charge are all about the troop and maybe the crew.

 

But the work on building scouting is all on the cub scouters to make it work. It's short sighted management by BSA.

 

If the Boy Scout program was so critical to BSA it wouldn't have such high attrition. We have awful attrition (in the stats) at Webelos and first year Boy Scouts.

 

Given that the troops do near zero recruiting and the scouters see cub scouts as something to get through is the core culture problem as BSA.

 

Since almost all the recruiting is at the cub level, some energy should be focused there.

 

One of the belt loops still talks about using a tape recorder (pin level)!

 

As I spoke to my DE, in our district, cubs outnumber venturers 4:1, so why do the emails about council events for venturers and older scouts (implied venturers patrols) out number stuff for cubs 4:1.

 

Why do recruiting events focus on canoeing and rifles when the boys being recruited aren't allowed to play laser tag?

 

If your recruiting is for an indoor program, why scare my suburbanites with things their boys can't do for 7 years?

 

If the troop program can't support itself, why not put resources into grown cub scouting as valuable on its own. If you can't fix the drop out process, why not at least grow your pool of scouts with cub scouting pushes?