eaglei01 Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Maybe I can get help here... I just finished my first year as the CM/Wolf DL for a small pack (my son is going to be starting his Bear year.) My question is: Our pack did the three summer monthly meetings to qualify for the Summer Time Activity award. Does my son (and the other scouts in his den) get the wolf STA pin or the bear STA pin ?? I've looked at a few places on the web and have seen it both ways. I've called the council, but got the "I'll have to get back with you on this." Any ideas? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I'd call him a bear from the beginning of summer. Your erstwhile tigers would get the wolf STA. I'm sure some folks here would say the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjberry Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I would call him a Bear in that scenario at least where we are. Our advancement was in March but I know our council does not considered them advanced until June. Hence our new Web I's are not permitted to go to a District Spring overnight, but are welcome after June to participate in Webelos activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I know this isn't official but meritbadge.org says otherwise. The vast majority of tigers start with the school year so how could they earn the Tiger pin ? I think further evidence is that there is no Webelos II pin. "Since the goal of the Summertime award is to have Packs continue the program through the summer, the summertime award scouts receive should match their current rank rather than the rank they are working on (ie, boys who have attained the rank of Tiger will receive the Tiger pin even though they are in a Wolf Den and working towards the Wolf rank). " http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/National_Summertime_Award Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I know this isn't official but meritbadge.org says otherwise. The vast majority of tigers start with the school year so how could they earn the Tiger pin ? I think further evidence is that there is no Webelos II pin. "Since the goal of the Summertime award is to have Packs continue the program through the summer, the summertime award scouts receive should match their current rank rather than the rank they are working on (ie, boys who have attained the rank of Tiger will receive the Tiger pin even though they are in a Wolf Den and working towards the Wolf rank). " http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/National_Summertime_Award Boyscouttrail says the same thing. http://www.boyscouttrail.com/content/award/award-1584.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 That's kindof confusing, seeing that at the end of the school year your suppose to advance them up a rank, and then they are to start working on earning the rank for the new rank (and if they didn't complete it stop earning rank for the for the old rank unless they choose not to advance then they can't work on the new rank just the old rank).. So if they are still they are a tiger & wolf at the same time that makes them a tilf, or woger, or wolf/bear they would be woar or belf etc... Hmm.. confusing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 That's kindof confusing, seeing that at the end of the school year your suppose to advance them up a rank, and then they are to start working on earning the rank for the new rank (and if they didn't complete it stop earning rank for the for the old rank unless they choose not to advance then they can't work on the new rank just the old rank).. So if they are still they are a tiger & wolf at the same time that makes them a tilf, or woger, or wolf/bear they would be woar or belf etc... Hmm.. confusing.. When has the BSA been anything but confusing ? From my understanding at the end of the school year they are not advanced in Rank, they are just advanced in Den. So lets a assume a Cub earned his Tiger Rank but didn't do much Wolf year and now is in third grade. He is in a Bear Den working on his Bear requirements. What Rank is he ? Tiger. Am I wrong ? He does not hold the Wolf rank, he didnt earn it, or the Bear Rank because he has not completed the requirements for either. No "Rank Advancement" form for Wolf or Bear has been submitted to the service center. That leaves the question what does he call himself ? He is not really a Bear, he does not hold the Bear Rank. Maybe apples and oranges but a First Class Scout does not call himself a Star Scout until he has completed the requirements and passed his BOR. It seems wrong to make him say he is a Tiger. It seems silly to make him get all nuanced and say "I am in a Bear Den" or "I am working on my Bear Rank". I was AC last year so I did a lot of searching on the issue. As further evidence to support this view the Outdoor Activity Award can be earned 5 times, flap with 4 devices, but the Summertime Pack Award only 4 times. The whole your Rank is Wolf but you wear a Bear Necker and are in a Bear Den thing is confusing. Try explaining that to parents. Or the this is Cub Scouts but your son is not a Cub Scout he is a Tiger Cub or a Webelos. He is a "Cub Scout" for only two of the nearly five years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADCinNC Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 They should get the Bear pin. They completed wolf, and during the summer can work on Bear requirements (if they went to day camp, they would work on Bear not Wolf, right?). Same deal here. Award them the Bear pin and call it a good summer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 They should get the Bear pin. They completed wolf, and during the summer can work on Bear requirements (if they went to day camp, they would work on Bear not Wolf, right?). Same deal here. Award them the Bear pin and call it a good summer! So how do you handle the Webelos ? 3rd grader earns Bear rank, school ends he is now in a Webelos Den. Earns the Webelos pin over the summer. Next year he finished 4th grade, presumably has earned his Webelos Rank, participates in 3 summertime pack activities. What pin does he earn now ? another Webelos Pin ? With the exception of LDS units or home schooled children how can a Scout earn the Tiger Pin ? It would be great if we were able to recruit Tigers at the end of Kindergarten, but that is not how the program works out in the field, in the vast majority of cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 They should get the Bear pin. They completed wolf, and during the summer can work on Bear requirements (if they went to day camp, they would work on Bear not Wolf, right?). Same deal here. Award them the Bear pin and call it a good summer! This is about a pin and patch that I have never seen on a uniform.... Ya buy them and then pick them up off the floor after the pack meeting when they were handed out. So KDD your talking about the summer between first year of webelos and the second year????? FYI there is no such thing as a Webelo I or a Webelo II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I know this isn't official but meritbadge.org says otherwise. The vast majority of tigers start with the school year so how could they earn the Tiger pin ? I think further evidence is that there is no Webelos II pin. "Since the goal of the Summertime award is to have Packs continue the program through the summer, the summertime award scouts receive should match their current rank rather than the rank they are working on (ie, boys who have attained the rank of Tiger will receive the Tiger pin even though they are in a Wolf Den and working towards the Wolf rank). " http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/National_Summertime_Award Those are not official sources... Please site links on official BSA websites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueymungus Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Your Cubscouts are the rank that they are when you turn in the advancement sheets to Council saying...this Scout is now a Bear on this date. Done. So, during the summer that they are a BEAR, they get the BEAR Summertime Pack Award PIN. A Tiger can earn the Tiger Pin if they sign-up as a Tiger before Summer. IE: Spring recruitment. That new Scout who just graduated Kindergarten can join Cubscouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 They should get the Bear pin. They completed wolf, and during the summer can work on Bear requirements (if they went to day camp, they would work on Bear not Wolf, right?). Same deal here. Award them the Bear pin and call it a good summer! Yeah, I know. Just like there is no such thing as Class A and Class B. Would you feel better If I called it Arrow of Light Year or whatever National calls it now ? Or should there be no distinctions between 4th and 5th grade Webelos. Oh I forgot, your pack doesn't have a second Webelos year and its not because it is LDS. The awards are in the Cub Book, ever read it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodward Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 The Summer Time Awards has no bearing on rank advancement. Whatever your Pack wants to base it on. just be consistant Since we haven't recruited in the Spring, most of our Scouts signed on in the fall, we award them at the previous rank going into the Summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 The Summer Time Awards has no bearing on rank advancement. Whatever your Pack wants to base it on. just be consistant Since we haven't recruited in the Spring, most of our Scouts signed on in the fall, we award them at the previous rank going into the SummerShould it really be based "whatever your Pack wants to base it on." ? Or should their be some sort of guidance from National ? I can't find anything other than than the order form. Don't quote me on this but the award has been around since 1971 and is a metric in JTE and National can't provide any guidance in 42 years ? The implication is a Pack should base any non rank advancement award on "whatever the Pack wants." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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