Should We or They Be Embarrassed; or Both?

[st0ut717]

Eagle is but one measure. It is a step that say i did something. It is not much different than a high shcoold kid that make state championship football.

I actually started to wear my fish to scout meetings to keep the eagles quiet.

Nike Yep ....

[Sentinel947]

I've always believed that earning Eagle is what you make of it. It can be just a checklist, or it can mean so much more than that. Ultimately, it is a checklist. It's what happens during the filling out of the checklist that really matters. Not the checklist itself. We are trying to build boys into men of character. When the checklist (The means) takes over the character (the ends) the program is failing. This is on the leaders. However, EVERYONE is responsible for their own actions. If young men, Eagle Scouts, are getting arrested, dealing drugs, whatever, that is THEIR fault, not Scoutings. Maybe Scout leaders could have influenced the Scout into a better direction, but this is not always possible.

 

 

 

As an adult, I don't try to make the checklist any harder, rather I spend my time trying to drill the ideals of Scouting into the Scouts.Being team players, following the Scout Oath and Law. The sort of stuff that after they get pinned with their Birds, they'll carry with them. That's what really counts after all.

 

 

 

Just my 2 cents.

[fred johnson]

IMHO, people aspire to the labels assigned to them whether those labels are good or bad. I really hope I never talk about Eagle Scout being too common or awarded to bad kids. That's wrong thinking.

 

Essentially, I've seen many people that remember they are Eagle scouts and they have tried to act better. Having that rank influences behavior to be better. It's a mark that they are stuck with and many any spend their entire lives trying to live up to the ideals of Eagle Scout.

 

I'm with Sentinel947 on this. Encourage and develop a value to the ideals of Eagle Scout. But don't try to guess who should or shouldn't earn it. It's a checklist. If they complete the checklist, they get the rank. Then help them value the accomplishment.

[Stosh]

The value of anything is determined by the individual. If the wearer thinks it is of value and the observers don't, well, that's what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. Of course the opposite is true as well.

 

Stosh

[walk in the woods]

Eagle is but one measure. It is a step that say i did something. It is not much different than a high shcoold kid that make state championship football.

I actually started to wear my fish to scout meetings to keep the eagles quiet.

Just a checklist .

 

FWIW, ET1 Simmons, Reactor Div USS Carl Vinson, 81 - 87.

[NJCubScouter]

Of course, then there are Eagle Scouts who become lawyers..........

::Cough cough:: I am sure there are even Eagle Scouts who go on to become insurance claims adjusters. No offense meant to anyone. Well, maybe a little...

 

As for lawyers, there are even some Life Scouts who become lawyers. ::Waving::

 

I agree with others that Eagle, or any other achievement or recognition, is what you make of it. A human being with an Eagle patch is still a human being, subject to the same opportunities and pitfalls as the rest of us.

[packsaddle]

So the potential solutions take on a familiar appearance:

 

1) do nothing and just whimper along like we're doing right now

 

2) 'can' the rank. Do away with it because it has attained a status of little or no meaning on average

 

3) figure out how to make it more meaningful, even if this results in disappointing some boys who thought it would be easy

 

The first two options have the advantage of being the 'easy way out'. My guess is that on the whole, we'll take door number 1.

 

The third option is the hard road, the one that the kind of Eagle we think everyone ought to be would take. Like that irony? But it has the disadvantage of being ambiguous and risks ending up as a matter of local interpretation....kind of like door number 1.

[acco40]

Fred Johnson, I agree wholeheartedly. I don't think we should be handing out the rank like candy but I don't think we should be expecting perfection either. I think the fact that being an Eagle, along with the process of earning an Eagle, influences behavior - mostly in the positive direction.

[skeptic]

Interesting responses, though some are a bit disappointing. While it is obvious that there are those that do not hold the rank in any real esteem, and that was a given, a few of the comments have indicated a disdain that is somewhat over the line, or so it seems to me. The more thoughtful are more to the real point.

 

The reason I noted initially that I was not sure where this belonged was because the majority of these "Eagles" are those some still hold up as good examples who are in the middle our political morass. They are the ones that I certainly DO NOT hold up as good examples to scouts. But, reality is that being a "Boy Scout", whether Eagle, or simply a member, is construed as being weak and ineffective and often used as a put down. The simple idea of actually living up to the basic tenets of the Oath and Law is somehow simplistic and shows a naivete that is to be made fun of.

 

But, of course, we still have those like Mike Rowe or the majority of the Eagle astronauts. Just wish those in the various levels of government would try to simply "Live the Twelve", and remember that duty to self is preceded by duty to God and country and duty to others when discussing the meaning of the scout emblem.

[Basementdweller]

Pack....no whimpering or whining going on here....

 

So how many times at roundtable.......

 

A new male face shows up.....and one of the first few questions ends up being are you an eagle scout????? no wonder they don't come back.

 

Or at a woodbadge or volunteer ceremony they ask the Eagle scouts to stand........

 

Does that diminish the contributions of the other adult volunteers??? I think it does

 

Heck we even had a fellow here a couple of years ago asking about getting his eagle awarded as an adult because he was to busy in high school to finish it.

 

 

How many troop trailers or scoutmaster brag at the number of Eagle scouts they turn out a year????

 

 

So we are turning out 50,000 eagle scouts a year......Where are they going?????? why are they leaving????? What percentage have their own sons join scouting?????

[Basementdweller]

Interesting responses, though some are a bit disappointing. While it is obvious that there are those that do not hold the rank in any real esteem, and that was a given, a few of the comments have indicated a disdain that is somewhat over the line, or so it seems to me. The more thoughtful are more to the real point.

 

The reason I noted initially that I was not sure where this belonged was because the majority of these "Eagles" are those some still hold up as good examples who are in the middle our political morass. They are the ones that I certainly DO NOT hold up as good examples to scouts. But, reality is that being a "Boy Scout", whether Eagle, or simply a member, is construed as being weak and ineffective and often used as a put down. The simple idea of actually living up to the basic tenets of the Oath and Law is somehow simplistic and shows a naivete that is to be made fun of.

 

But, of course, we still have those like Mike Rowe or the majority of the Eagle astronauts. Just wish those in the various levels of government would try to simply "Live the Twelve", and remember that duty to self is preceded by duty to God and country and duty to others when discussing the meaning of the scout emblem.

Sorry your disappointed....

 

When we have 6 eagles in a jambo troop that refuse to do community service whose failing is that??? Those are the ones I know of.

 

When we have Eagle scouts teaching at a Webelos event incorrect first aid techniques whose failing is that?????? I instruct my guys by the scout book

 

Or the Eagle who could not build a fire in the fire place in the big lodge at a council event???? Watched him for an hour before I stepped in.....Sorry the hall was freezing...

 

I would like to think that your right skeptic, Just as one scout troops bad behavior at a camp ground erases the hundred troops who were good outdoor community members at the same location.......

 

 

Ya I am disappointed in what I am seeing.....In the current batch of scoutings Youth and adults.

 

How many boys and adult quit as soon as the eagle is awarded??? All but a handful from what I see.

[Scouter99]

Pack....no whimpering or whining going on here....

 

So how many times at roundtable.......

 

A new male face shows up.....and one of the first few questions ends up being are you an eagle scout????? no wonder they don't come back.

 

Or at a woodbadge or volunteer ceremony they ask the Eagle scouts to stand........

 

Does that diminish the contributions of the other adult volunteers??? I think it does

 

Heck we even had a fellow here a couple of years ago asking about getting his eagle awarded as an adult because he was to busy in high school to finish it.

 

 

How many troop trailers or scoutmaster brag at the number of Eagle scouts they turn out a year????

 

 

So we are turning out 50,000 eagle scouts a year......Where are they going?????? why are they leaving????? What percentage have their own sons join scouting?????

We've got ~100 Eagles in 50 yrs. To my knowledge, 1 ever came back after college.

I completely agree about diminishing non-Eagles' service. I'm not an Eagle; when some hotshot makes a joke I tell them to look around and tell me how many former scouts from our troop they see, the answer is 1, me, and they can put that in their pipe and smoke it.

 

Fun fact: Adults could earn Eagle until like the 1940s.

[Scouter99]

I think we are over valuing an award won by teenagers for essentially completing a task list. It's an award, not sainthood.

Don't tell mommy.

[st0ut717]

Eagle is but one measure. It is a step that say i did something. It is not much different than a high shcoold kid that make state championship football.

I actually started to wear my fish to scout meetings to keep the eagles quiet.

cough cough skimmer puke cough

[Eagledad]

Spelling...