Boy Scouts threaten to sue Oakland-based nonprofit for using 'scouts' in name

[DWise1_AOL]

This puts a lie to the claim by apologists for BSA discriminatory practices that all those excluded need to do is to create their own Scouting organization; eg, "Atheist Scouts", which I believe I've seen them offer. BSA holds a monopoly on Scouting in this country and they have a long history of suing anybody who tries to create an alternative Scouting organization.

[qwazse]

This puts a lie to the claim by apologists for BSA discriminatory practices that all those excluded need to do is to create their own Scouting organization; eg, "Atheist Scouts", which I believe I've seen them offer. BSA holds a monopoly on Scouting in this country and they have a long history of suing anybody who tries to create an alternative Scouting organization.

Don't play semantics, friend. A naive prospect would immediately associate a youth movement with that name to the pre-existing movement. If someone proposed such a thing to you in the past, it surely was not to simply tape that name over existing BSA material and carry on, but to organize a youth movent on better and more nobly applied principles than the current movement,

 

 

Something like "Young Naturalists" would not infringe on the trademark. Of course, it might infringe one someone else's moniker. Start-ups have to do their homework.

[Kudu]

This puts a lie to the claim by apologists for BSA discriminatory practices that all those excluded need to do is to create their own Scouting organization; eg, "Atheist Scouts", which I believe I've seen them offer. BSA holds a monopoly on Scouting in this country and they have a long history of suing anybody who tries to create an alternative Scouting organization.

Semantics? Scouting was a "pre-existing movement" when Congress picked the BSA as its American monopoly corporation, in EXCHANGE for the promise to define Scouting as the Scoutcraft program practiced on June 15, 1916.

 

A naïve prospect would immediately associate the BSA with "Scouting," but we pay a guy a million dollars a year to badmouth Scoutcraft in the name of Wood Badge.

 

It's as if Congress granted the Yellow Cab Corporation a monopoly on "Taxi" on June 15, 2016. You call for a taxi on June 16th, but a guy arrives at your house to teach you "leadership skills."

[DWise1_AOL]

This puts a lie to the claim by apologists for BSA discriminatory practices that all those excluded need to do is to create their own Scouting organization; eg, "Atheist Scouts", which I believe I've seen them offer. BSA holds a monopoly on Scouting in this country and they have a long history of suing anybody who tries to create an alternative Scouting organization.

Don't play semantics, friend.

Then do please stop playing semantics and stop projectin.

 

And I know better than to call your kind "friend".

 

Another youth movement with different name and different objectives would not be Scouting.

 

BSA holds a monopoly on Scouting in this country. Despite it's being held hostage by religious bigots.

 

A youth movement that is not Scouting is not nor have ever been the issue. We are talking about Scouting being available to all. If you want to exclude anybody, then you had damned well be able to provicde a cogent argument for their exclusion.

 

Officially published BSA policy provides no such support.

 

I know full well that apologists for BSA religious discrimination have advanced the "argument" that atheists could form their own "Atheist Scouts". I am also quite certain that that same argument has been posted on this very same forum. I know that such an "argument" is absolutely false and I know that proof of this is BSA's readiness to sue anybody over their "copyright".

[RememberSchiff]

Hacker scouts bow to continued BSA legal pressure and decide to change their name.

http://hacker-scouts.org/blog/hacker-scouts-and-bsa-decision

[King Ding Dong]

Hacker scouts bow to continued BSA legal pressure and decide to change their name.

http://hacker-scouts.org/blog/hacker-scouts-and-bsa-decision

Good to see the are taking it well. They have a Kickstarter page. I am going to make a small donation.

[RememberSchiff]

Hacker scouts bow to continued BSA legal pressure and decide to change their name.

http://hacker-scouts.org/blog/hacker-scouts-and-bsa-decision

Then again, if National's various servers start shutting down tonight...

[DigitalScout]

There are so many other names that a youth group of 'hackers' could use. Why choose 'Scouts' if they weren't trying to get mileage from BSA's brand?

 

(Note: This is probably the first and last time that I'll ever agree with Irving on something!)

I think the reason the call themselves "scouts" is because the kids can earn patches for learning certain skills (chemistry, electronic circuits, animation, rocketeering, etc.). It's a bunch of kids learning STEM, not a dedicated outdoor program and I'm not sure who could possibly be confused by the BSA branding.

[fred johnson]

It was a very valid defense.

 

---- You can create your own Pizza Hut, but ya can't call it Pizza Hut.

 

---- You can create your own McDonalds, but ya can't call it McDonalds.

 

---- You can sell your own Kleenex, but ya can't call them Kleenex.

 

---- You can creating your own scouting organization, but ya can't use scouts.

 

The Oakland group was leveraging the goodwill and reputation of the BSA program to create their own credibility. They wanted to ride the coattails of another group and muddy the waters on which program is which.

 

........................

 

DWise1_AOL is just another faith hater damaged by their own lives and now looking to damage others.

 

It's not that they wanted to actually create another program as much as they want to change ours.

 

Dwise1_AOL ... May I suggest ... Atheist Youth Adventurers, AYA. ... Atheist Pioneers? ... Or UUA youth ?

 

[Peregrinator]

It was a very valid defense.

 

The difference between the BSA and all those other companies you mentioned is that the word "scout" (unqualified) is not trademarked and probably can't be because it is too generic. It is protected because of the Boy Scouts' congressional charter and not because of trademark as is the case with Pizza Hut, McDonald's, Kleenex, etc.

 

The other thing is that "Hacker Scouts" is not a scouting organization at all, it's simply a youth organization, so there is little chance of confusion.

 

All that said, there is nothing keeping an atheist from starting a "scout-like" youth organization and calling it something else. I also know that the BPSA accepts atheists -- in fact their chief commissioner is an atheist.

[JoeBob]

Hacker scouts bow to continued BSA legal pressure and decide to change their name.

http://hacker-scouts.org/blog/hacker-scouts-and-bsa-decision

The former 'Hacker Scouts' could do more damage to BSA by leaving their current servers running!

[fred johnson]

 

Point taken. Legalistically, "Scouts" / "Scout" is not a trademark. But as you acknowledge, it is protected and essentially as good as a trademark. And many companies are under congressional charters. Girl scouts. Red Cross. American Legion. Etc.

 

As for trademark though....

 

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Licensing/Protecting%20the%20Brand/Boy%20Scouts%20of%20America%20Trademark%20Listing.aspx

 

It seems very clear though that "Hacker Scouts" is trying to leverage the good reputation developed over 100 years of Boy Scouts. BSA does have registered trademarks in Cub Scout(s), Boy Scout(s), Venturing Scout, Sea Scouts, Eagle Scout, Boy Scouts of America, Scout Shop, Scout Stuff, Scoutmaster, Scouting USA.

 

Hacker scouts knew very well what they were doing and that is why they choose the name. They just didn't think anyone would care. But BSA needs to defend the brand.

[jpstodwftexas]

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]Word Mark[/TD]

[TD]PHILMONT[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Goods and Services[/TD]

[TD]IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: series of musical sound recordings; downloadable musical sound recordings. FIRST USE: 20060114. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20060114 IC 014. US 002 027 028 050. G & S: slap bracelets. FIRST USE: 20070700. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20070700

IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: stickers, posters. FIRST USE: 20050700. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050700

IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: clothing, namely, t-shirts; hooded shirts. FIRST USE: 20050700. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050700

IC 026. US 037 039 040 042 050. G & S: ornamental buttons. FIRST USE: 20050700. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050700

IC 038. US 100 101 104. G & S: streaming of audio and video content on the internet. FIRST USE: 20040000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040000

IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: entertainment services, namely, live musical performances; providing website pages featuring music, entertainment information on a band and its members, performances, recordings, appearances, photographs, discography and other entertainment information. FIRST USE: 20040000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040000

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Standard Characters Claimed[/TD]

[TD] [/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Mark Drawing Code[/TD]

[TD](4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Serial Number[/TD]

[TD]77601331[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Filing Date[/TD]

[TD]October 27, 2008[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Current Basis[/TD]

[TD]1A[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Original Filing Basis[/TD]

[TD]1A;1B[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Published for Opposition[/TD]

[TD]September 22, 2009[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Registration Number[/TD]

[TD]3805382[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Registration Date[/TD]

[TD]June 22, 2010[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Owner[/TD]

[TD](REGISTRANT) Philmont, Inc. CORPORATION NORTH CAROLINA 10717 Persimmon Creek Drive Charlotte NORTH CAROLINA 28227[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Attorney of Record[/TD]

[TD]Lawrence E. Apolzon,[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Type of Mark[/TD]

[TD]TRADEMARK. SERVICE MARK[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Register[/TD]

[TD]PRINCIPAL[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Live/Dead Indicator[/TD]

[TD]LIVE[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

[jpstodwftexas]

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]Word Mark[/TD]

[TD]PSA PHILMONT STAFF ASSOCIATION[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Goods and Services[/TD]

[TD]IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S: Association services, namely, promoting the interests of a proprietary ranch and staff members thereof. FIRST USE: 20040806. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040806[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Mark Drawing Code[/TD]

[TD](3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Design Search Code[/TD]

[TD]01.05.01 - Sun, rising or setting (partially exposed or partially obstructed); Sunrise

06.01.04 - Mountains (landscapes); Scenery with mountains

26.11.02 - Plain single line rectangles; Rectangles (single line)

26.17.13 - Letters or words underlined and/or overlined by one or more strokes or lines; Overlined words or letters; Underlined words or letters[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Serial Number[/TD]

[TD]78463386[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Filing Date[/TD]

[TD]August 6, 2004[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Current Basis[/TD]

[TD]1A[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Original Filing Basis[/TD]

[TD]1A[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Published for Opposition[/TD]

[TD]September 27, 2005[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Registration Number[/TD]

[TD]3031765[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Registration Date[/TD]

[TD]December 20, 2005[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Owner[/TD]

[TD](REGISTRANT) Philmont Staff Association NON-PROFIT CORPORATION NEW MEXICO 17 Deer Run Road Cimarron NEW MEXICO 87714[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Attorney of Record[/TD]

[TD]Taylor M. Davenport[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Disclaimer[/TD]

[TD]NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "STAFF ASSOCIATION" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Description of Mark[/TD]

[TD]The mark consists of The letters PSA with a stylized rendition of Baldy Mountain and a setting sun in the background, the words PHILMONT STAFF ASSOCIATION written below.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Type of Mark[/TD]

[TD]SERVICE MARK[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Register[/TD]

[TD]PRINCIPAL[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Affidavit Text[/TD]

[TD]SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Live/Dead Indicator[/TD]

[TD]LIVE[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

[jpstodwftexas]

And Check this Out ...Dead Means Not Longer Valid

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]Word Mark[/TD]

[TD]PHILMONT SCOUT RANCH & EXPLORER BASE[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Goods and Services[/TD]

[TD](CANCELLED) IC 041. US 107. G & S: Educational Services-Namely, Providing Training and Recreational Programs for Boy Scouts. FIRST USE: 19630630. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19630630[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Mark Drawing Code[/TD]

[TD](3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Design Search Code[/TD]

[TD]06.01.04 - Mountains (landscapes); Scenery with mountains

24.15.04 - Arrowheads[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Serial Number[/TD]

[TD]73310170[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Filing Date[/TD]

[TD]May 13, 1981[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Current Basis[/TD]

[TD]1A[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Original Filing Basis[/TD]

[TD]1A[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Published for Opposition[/TD]

[TD]September 28, 1982[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Change In Registration[/TD]

[TD]CHANGE IN REGISTRATION HAS OCCURRED[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Registration Number[/TD]

[TD]1221222[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Registration Date[/TD]

[TD]December 21, 1982[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Owner[/TD]

[TD](REGISTRANT) BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA FEDERALLY CHARTERED CORPORATION P.O. BOX 152079 1325 WALNUT HILL LANE IRVING TEXAS 750152079[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Attorney of Record[/TD]

[TD]CHRISTOPHER A. SIDOTI[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Disclaimer[/TD]

[TD]No claim is made to exclusive use of "Scout Ranch & Explorer Base" apart from the mark as shown.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Type of Mark[/TD]

[TD]SERVICE MARK[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Register[/TD]

[TD]PRINCIPAL[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Affidavit Text[/TD]

[TD]SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Live/Dead Indicator[/TD]

[TD]DEAD[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Cancellation Date[/TD]

[TD]September 27, 2003[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]