Chess Merit Badge Class

[King Ding Dong]

"I'm the "middle man," Scouts give me the requirements that they have completed and I report to the adult(counselor) who signs them off."

"441 do you understand why some of us have a problem with this ? The problem is that you are a middle man. There is no adult association, whoever signs the blue card is just robo signing. There is not supposed to be a middleman in the merit badge program."

The scouts have the option of not using the worksheet, no paperwork from them means no MB. I will be taking the paperwork and notes/reminders of scouts that have completed certain requirements(i.e. the tournament) to the counselor, who will sign them off.

Let me get this straight. They don't have to use the worksheet, but if they don't then no MB. Have you read Catch 22 yet ?

 

You really need to get a copy of the GTA and read it several times. I think that will really help you out here. Here is another section of the GTA. Can you find some things your process is violating ?

 

7.0.4.8 Unofficial Worksheets and Learning Aids

Worksheets and other materials that may be of assistance in earning merit badges are available from a variety of places including unofficial sources on the Internet and even troop libraries. Use of these aids is permissible as long as the materials can be correlated with the current requirements that Scouts must fulfill. Completing “worksheets†may suffice where a requirement calls for something in writing, but this would not work for a requirement where the Scout must discuss, tell, show,

or demonstrate, etc. Note that Scouts shall not be required to use these learning aids in order to complete a merit badge.

[qwazse]

"I'm the "middle man," Scouts give me the requirements that they have completed and I report to the adult(counselor) who signs them off."

"441 do you understand why some of us have a problem with this ? The problem is that you are a middle man. There is no adult association, whoever signs the blue card is just robo signing. There is not supposed to be a middleman in the merit badge program."

The scouts have the option of not using the worksheet, no paperwork from them means no MB. I will be taking the paperwork and notes/reminders of scouts that have completed certain requirements(i.e. the tournament) to the counselor, who will sign them off.

Simple advice: don't make yourself the middle man.

 

The boy who contacts the MBC can simply say, "I played in a tournament with my troop" and talk to him about how it went. Scouts Honor.

 

In tour class should try to "teach" the meaning of the things in a fun way. For example, you may have a student read the requirement and the description in the pamphlet, and then try practicing that term. Or acting out the movement of pieces!

 

The boy who wants the badge, will "test out" by discussing them with the MBC.

[Scouter99]

Now that I think the issue of my being allowed to teach the MB is settled' date=' can we get back to my original question: Any group teaching advice? I think dcsimmons is the only one that has actually given an answer for my question, is there any further advice? The more the merrier.[/quote']

 

OK, I'll bite: Here's my advice:

Don't do it.

Troop meetings are not merit badge school and a main point of the MB system is that boys mature and grow personally by having to contact a stranger, set up appointments, and be accountable to a person. What you are doing is wrong and undermines your fellow scouts' experience. That your troop has been wrong in the past doesn't give you license to be wrong now, and does not relieve you from being wrong yourself if you continue.

 

Your council maintains a list of MB counselors, if there are boys in your troop who want the MB, they should call the council and get a real counselor's number.

[Basementdweller]

Now that I think the issue of my being allowed to teach the MB is settled' date=' can we get back to my original question: Any group teaching advice? I think dcsimmons is the only one that has actually given an answer for my question, is there any further advice? The more the merrier.[/quote']

 

OK, I'll bite: Here's my advice:

Don't do it.

Troop meetings are not merit badge school and a main point of the MB system is that boys mature and grow personally by having to contact a stranger, set up appointments, and be accountable to a person. What you are doing is wrong and undermines your fellow scouts' experience. That your troop has been wrong in the past doesn't give you license to be wrong now, and does not relieve you from being wrong yourself if you continue.

 

Your council maintains a list of MB counselors, if there are boys in your troop who want the MB, they should call the council and get a real counselor's number.

His mind is made up...... He his going to do his chess thing regardless if he is following procedure or not....

 

We have clearly shown while his intentions are good, he is now aware how the merit badge program is supposed to run.......And still chooses to ignore it and do it his way.

 

I stand by my thick skull comment.

[JoeBob]

Now that I think the issue of my being allowed to teach the MB is settled' date=' can we get back to my original question: Any group teaching advice? I think dcsimmons is the only one that has actually given an answer for my question, is there any further advice? The more the merrier.[/quote']

 

OK, I'll bite: Here's my advice:

Don't do it.

Troop meetings are not merit badge school and a main point of the MB system is that boys mature and grow personally by having to contact a stranger, set up appointments, and be accountable to a person. What you are doing is wrong and undermines your fellow scouts' experience. That your troop has been wrong in the past doesn't give you license to be wrong now, and does not relieve you from being wrong yourself if you continue.

 

Your council maintains a list of MB counselors, if there are boys in your troop who want the MB, they should call the council and get a real counselor's number.

Piling on 441, could you help us feel better about your credentials by providing some basic MBC information:

 

1- How many years have you been teaching Chess?

2- How many classes a year do you teach? What is the average size of your classes?

3- Have any of your students placed well in competition after your classes?

4- How many tournaments of what size have you personally played in?

5- What's your highest finish?

6- Who was your Chess mentor, and what is his playing history?

 

Thank you for your help.

[King Ding Dong]

Here is a link to the 2013 GTA. Please do yourself, your troop and your leaders a favor and read the sections on the Merit Badge Program. It won't take long. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

[qwazse]

"When it says discuss, our troop does it like this: The counselor teaches, the student takes notes, the notes are turned in and graded, the counselor decides whether or not the notes satisfy the requirement."

 

E441, it sounds like we are asking you to swim against the grain of a troop's culture. We all have our baggage when we're replying to you. So pardon if we dump our frustrations. But, by letting us rant, you may be doing thousands of scouters a favor, who would otherwise agree with the approach above. Why would they agree? Because it sounds an awful lot like the the disastrous and uncivilized "EDGE" method. Counselor explains/demonstrates, student is guided presumably through note taking, then is enabled by turning in notes.

 

The EDGE proponents may say "but that's not what those four words mean!" I say, but that's how they are being interpreted in troops throughout our nation. So, let me provide a few words that leave little to interpretation. This is how the West pulled itself out of the dark ages, the student should:

 

REFER to the MB pamphlet or some other book on chess.

DO or MEMORIZE the reference as best he can on his own.

DISCUSS in a comfortable setting with the counselor about the material.

EVALUATE what with the help of the counselor he yet needs to do.

PRACTICE with friends.

PRESENT himself to the counselor with a satisfactory understanding.

 

Now, the *best* thing you can do for your scouts (even if you are an official MBC) in a troop meeting is introduce the boys to some good references, allow for open discussion of what's in those references without any pressure on the boys to take notes, and set up some practice sessions.

 

Effective evaluation can't be done at a troop meeting because it is more than just turning in notes. It's taking an exam. Oral exams, where the person can get an immediate evaluation are extremely efficient. That's why we want our counselors working with just one or two boys at a time.

 

It is a lot harder to get 12 boys through this kind of process. But, one year from now, guess which boys are gonna remember the material? Moreover, guess which boys are gonna have the confidence to go out on their own and get more challenging material or contact an instructor on the subject?

[NJCubScouter]

Here is my opinion about worksheets and notes for merit badges. First of all, it depends on what the requirement is. Nobody should be accepting written material for "demonstrate" or "show", because those things cannot be done with words alone, regardless of whether the words are written or oral. If the requirement is to "explain" or "describe" I think that is a different story. If the Scout explains or describes the subject matter in writing, I would accept that, but it has to be in his own words. So a worksheet written out by the Scout would be ok with me. But "notes", meaning notes taken by the Scout while the instructor or counselor is speaking (which, as I understand this thread, is accepted by the troop in question), would not be acceptable to me. That would just be turning my (assuming I'm the counselor) words back in to me. That is not an explanation or a description BY THE SCOUT. Now, one might respond that the Scout could just take his notes of my statement and write the answer on the worksheet based on the notes. I'm ok with that. In doing that, the Scout is inevitably going to gain (and pass along to me) at least some understanding of the subject matter. He first has to figure out which statements, in his notes, respond to which question. He then has to adapt the words in his notes to the format of the question. He then has to write the answer. Even in that limited process, learning is going on, and he is explaining or describing what he is supposed to explain or describe. In my opinion, anyway.

 

"Discuss" is a little different, although I just looked at the requirements for two merit badges at random, Cit in the Community and Chess (ok, that one wasn't really at random), and it seems to me that the BSA sometimes uses "explain" and "discuss" interchangeably, which they shouldn't. "Explain" means you are telling me something - it could be a one-way communication and still meet the requirement (which is why I would accept a written answer.) "Discuss" means that you and I are talking to each other about the subject -- it's a two-way communication. In the case of a merit badge (or First Class requirement number 5 (I think), for which I am the designated "discusser" in my troop) I want the Scout to tell me what he knows about the subject, then I will ask him some questions designed to make him think about it some more, and see what more he knows, then I will usually tell him some things about the subject that he may not know. This may prompt him to say things back to me about the subject. In other words, a discussion. The reason for "discuss" rather than "explain" is (or should be) that the Scout can gain something from what I know about the subject. Now, does that mean the "discussion" can be all me? No. My expectation is that the Scout will do MOST of the talking, but there have been some discussions for the First Class requirement in which I have probably done the majority of the talking, and as long as the Scout is contributing significantly to the conversation, I believe he has succeeded in "discussing" it. This CANNOT be completed solely with a worksheet. PART of it can be. The Scout can write down what he knows on the worksheet, then give it to me, and we then talk about it, and I do my part of the requirement, and he does the rest of his part by answering my questions and adding whatever he has to add.

 

It may be that there is some training or guidance from the BSA on what I have discussed (ha ha) above, but I don't know what it is. Hopefully it is something close to what I think it should be.

[SR540Beaver]

"When it says discuss, our troop does it like this: The counselor teaches, the student takes notes, the notes are turned in and graded, the counselor decides whether or not the notes satisfy the requirement."

 

E441, it sounds like we are asking you to swim against the grain of a troop's culture. We all have our baggage when we're replying to you. So pardon if we dump our frustrations. But, by letting us rant, you may be doing thousands of scouters a favor, who would otherwise agree with the approach above. Why would they agree? Because it sounds an awful lot like the the disastrous and uncivilized "EDGE" method. Counselor explains/demonstrates, student is guided presumably through note taking, then is enabled by turning in notes.

 

The EDGE proponents may say "but that's not what those four words mean!" I say, but that's how they are being interpreted in troops throughout our nation. So, let me provide a few words that leave little to interpretation. This is how the West pulled itself out of the dark ages, the student should:

 

REFER to the MB pamphlet or some other book on chess.

DO or MEMORIZE the reference as best he can on his own.

DISCUSS in a comfortable setting with the counselor about the material.

EVALUATE what with the help of the counselor he yet needs to do.

PRACTICE with friends.

PRESENT himself to the counselor with a satisfactory understanding.

 

Now, the *best* thing you can do for your scouts (even if you are an official MBC) in a troop meeting is introduce the boys to some good references, allow for open discussion of what's in those references without any pressure on the boys to take notes, and set up some practice sessions.

 

Effective evaluation can't be done at a troop meeting because it is more than just turning in notes. It's taking an exam. Oral exams, where the person can get an immediate evaluation are extremely efficient. That's why we want our counselors working with just one or two boys at a time.

 

It is a lot harder to get 12 boys through this kind of process. But, one year from now, guess which boys are gonna remember the material? Moreover, guess which boys are gonna have the confidence to go out on their own and get more challenging material or contact an instructor on the subject?

Oh good grief....the much maligned EDGE method has always been a part of the scouting culture and methods. The only thing different is that someone decided to formalize it with an acronym and emphasize it as a program element because it has always been an effective tool. It's simply teaching a skill and passing it down from scout to scout. Nothing more.

[JoeBob]

Here is my opinion about worksheets and notes for merit badges. First of all, it depends on what the requirement is. Nobody should be accepting written material for "demonstrate" or "show", because those things cannot be done with words alone, regardless of whether the words are written or oral. If the requirement is to "explain" or "describe" I think that is a different story. If the Scout explains or describes the subject matter in writing, I would accept that, but it has to be in his own words. So a worksheet written out by the Scout would be ok with me. But "notes", meaning notes taken by the Scout while the instructor or counselor is speaking (which, as I understand this thread, is accepted by the troop in question), would not be acceptable to me. That would just be turning my (assuming I'm the counselor) words back in to me. That is not an explanation or a description BY THE SCOUT. Now, one might respond that the Scout could just take his notes of my statement and write the answer on the worksheet based on the notes. I'm ok with that. In doing that, the Scout is inevitably going to gain (and pass along to me) at least some understanding of the subject matter. He first has to figure out which statements, in his notes, respond to which question. He then has to adapt the words in his notes to the format of the question. He then has to write the answer. Even in that limited process, learning is going on, and he is explaining or describing what he is supposed to explain or describe. In my opinion, anyway.

 

"Discuss" is a little different, although I just looked at the requirements for two merit badges at random, Cit in the Community and Chess (ok, that one wasn't really at random), and it seems to me that the BSA sometimes uses "explain" and "discuss" interchangeably, which they shouldn't. "Explain" means you are telling me something - it could be a one-way communication and still meet the requirement (which is why I would accept a written answer.) "Discuss" means that you and I are talking to each other about the subject -- it's a two-way communication. In the case of a merit badge (or First Class requirement number 5 (I think), for which I am the designated "discusser" in my troop) I want the Scout to tell me what he knows about the subject, then I will ask him some questions designed to make him think about it some more, and see what more he knows, then I will usually tell him some things about the subject that he may not know. This may prompt him to say things back to me about the subject. In other words, a discussion. The reason for "discuss" rather than "explain" is (or should be) that the Scout can gain something from what I know about the subject. Now, does that mean the "discussion" can be all me? No. My expectation is that the Scout will do MOST of the talking, but there have been some discussions for the First Class requirement in which I have probably done the majority of the talking, and as long as the Scout is contributing significantly to the conversation, I believe he has succeeded in "discussing" it. This CANNOT be completed solely with a worksheet. PART of it can be. The Scout can write down what he knows on the worksheet, then give it to me, and we then talk about it, and I do my part of the requirement, and he does the rest of his part by answering my questions and adding whatever he has to add.

 

It may be that there is some training or guidance from the BSA on what I have discussed (ha ha) above, but I don't know what it is. Hopefully it is something close to what I think it should be.

To wit: I'd like to see a Scout's written explanation of 'en passant' for chess. Or a knight's movement range.

Somethings you gotta communicate in person.

[NJCubScouter]

"When it says discuss, our troop does it like this: The counselor teaches, the student takes notes, the notes are turned in and graded, the counselor decides whether or not the notes satisfy the requirement."

 

E441, it sounds like we are asking you to swim against the grain of a troop's culture. We all have our baggage when we're replying to you. So pardon if we dump our frustrations. But, by letting us rant, you may be doing thousands of scouters a favor, who would otherwise agree with the approach above. Why would they agree? Because it sounds an awful lot like the the disastrous and uncivilized "EDGE" method. Counselor explains/demonstrates, student is guided presumably through note taking, then is enabled by turning in notes.

 

The EDGE proponents may say "but that's not what those four words mean!" I say, but that's how they are being interpreted in troops throughout our nation. So, let me provide a few words that leave little to interpretation. This is how the West pulled itself out of the dark ages, the student should:

 

REFER to the MB pamphlet or some other book on chess.

DO or MEMORIZE the reference as best he can on his own.

DISCUSS in a comfortable setting with the counselor about the material.

EVALUATE what with the help of the counselor he yet needs to do.

PRACTICE with friends.

PRESENT himself to the counselor with a satisfactory understanding.

 

Now, the *best* thing you can do for your scouts (even if you are an official MBC) in a troop meeting is introduce the boys to some good references, allow for open discussion of what's in those references without any pressure on the boys to take notes, and set up some practice sessions.

 

Effective evaluation can't be done at a troop meeting because it is more than just turning in notes. It's taking an exam. Oral exams, where the person can get an immediate evaluation are extremely efficient. That's why we want our counselors working with just one or two boys at a time.

 

It is a lot harder to get 12 boys through this kind of process. But, one year from now, guess which boys are gonna remember the material? Moreover, guess which boys are gonna have the confidence to go out on their own and get more challenging material or contact an instructor on the subject?

I agree with SR540Beaver on the EDGE method. I think it was created just to make sure that the boys (and adults) don't forget a step in the teaching process. Any good teaching method will incorporate those steps regardless of whether you are thinking about the separate elements as you teach. It's just a double-check, in my opinion.

[NJCubScouter]

Here is my opinion about worksheets and notes for merit badges. First of all, it depends on what the requirement is. Nobody should be accepting written material for "demonstrate" or "show", because those things cannot be done with words alone, regardless of whether the words are written or oral. If the requirement is to "explain" or "describe" I think that is a different story. If the Scout explains or describes the subject matter in writing, I would accept that, but it has to be in his own words. So a worksheet written out by the Scout would be ok with me. But "notes", meaning notes taken by the Scout while the instructor or counselor is speaking (which, as I understand this thread, is accepted by the troop in question), would not be acceptable to me. That would just be turning my (assuming I'm the counselor) words back in to me. That is not an explanation or a description BY THE SCOUT. Now, one might respond that the Scout could just take his notes of my statement and write the answer on the worksheet based on the notes. I'm ok with that. In doing that, the Scout is inevitably going to gain (and pass along to me) at least some understanding of the subject matter. He first has to figure out which statements, in his notes, respond to which question. He then has to adapt the words in his notes to the format of the question. He then has to write the answer. Even in that limited process, learning is going on, and he is explaining or describing what he is supposed to explain or describe. In my opinion, anyway.

 

"Discuss" is a little different, although I just looked at the requirements for two merit badges at random, Cit in the Community and Chess (ok, that one wasn't really at random), and it seems to me that the BSA sometimes uses "explain" and "discuss" interchangeably, which they shouldn't. "Explain" means you are telling me something - it could be a one-way communication and still meet the requirement (which is why I would accept a written answer.) "Discuss" means that you and I are talking to each other about the subject -- it's a two-way communication. In the case of a merit badge (or First Class requirement number 5 (I think), for which I am the designated "discusser" in my troop) I want the Scout to tell me what he knows about the subject, then I will ask him some questions designed to make him think about it some more, and see what more he knows, then I will usually tell him some things about the subject that he may not know. This may prompt him to say things back to me about the subject. In other words, a discussion. The reason for "discuss" rather than "explain" is (or should be) that the Scout can gain something from what I know about the subject. Now, does that mean the "discussion" can be all me? No. My expectation is that the Scout will do MOST of the talking, but there have been some discussions for the First Class requirement in which I have probably done the majority of the talking, and as long as the Scout is contributing significantly to the conversation, I believe he has succeeded in "discussing" it. This CANNOT be completed solely with a worksheet. PART of it can be. The Scout can write down what he knows on the worksheet, then give it to me, and we then talk about it, and I do my part of the requirement, and he does the rest of his part by answering my questions and adding whatever he has to add.

 

It may be that there is some training or guidance from the BSA on what I have discussed (ha ha) above, but I don't know what it is. Hopefully it is something close to what I think it should be.

JoeBob, fortunately, the requirement for those items (the movements of pieces, and en passant) says "demonstrate", not "explain" or "describe" or "discuss." Specifically it says "Demonstrate to your counselor that you know each of the following." (Requirement 3.) If I were a Chess MB counselor (which I will never be, as I just dabble in the game; I have never even heard of a couple of the terms in Requirement 5b, and as for some of the others I am not sure what they are, though I am guessing I have used some of them without even knowing their names; so in other words as things stand I would not be able to earn the badge without further study, much less be a counselor), I would interpret that to mean that the Scout needs to BOTH show me, on a chess board, how the piece moves or how the capture works, etc. and explain it to me. In order for him to do that effectively, both those things really have to happen at the same time. In other words, we're together, with a chess board and pieces, and he's telling me the rule and demonstrating it with the pieces. A worksheet won't do it, but that's because the specific requirement is worded the way it is. For other requirements a worksheet will be ok. (By the way, I am not saying that the BSA has EVERY requirement of EVERY badge in the right category of explain/discuss/demonstrate etc., in fact I see a couple in the Chess MB that I might change. But the job of the counselor is to make sure the requirements are met as written.)

[qwazse]

"When it says discuss, our troop does it like this: The counselor teaches, the student takes notes, the notes are turned in and graded, the counselor decides whether or not the notes satisfy the requirement."

 

E441, it sounds like we are asking you to swim against the grain of a troop's culture. We all have our baggage when we're replying to you. So pardon if we dump our frustrations. But, by letting us rant, you may be doing thousands of scouters a favor, who would otherwise agree with the approach above. Why would they agree? Because it sounds an awful lot like the the disastrous and uncivilized "EDGE" method. Counselor explains/demonstrates, student is guided presumably through note taking, then is enabled by turning in notes.

 

The EDGE proponents may say "but that's not what those four words mean!" I say, but that's how they are being interpreted in troops throughout our nation. So, let me provide a few words that leave little to interpretation. This is how the West pulled itself out of the dark ages, the student should:

 

REFER to the MB pamphlet or some other book on chess.

DO or MEMORIZE the reference as best he can on his own.

DISCUSS in a comfortable setting with the counselor about the material.

EVALUATE what with the help of the counselor he yet needs to do.

PRACTICE with friends.

PRESENT himself to the counselor with a satisfactory understanding.

 

Now, the *best* thing you can do for your scouts (even if you are an official MBC) in a troop meeting is introduce the boys to some good references, allow for open discussion of what's in those references without any pressure on the boys to take notes, and set up some practice sessions.

 

Effective evaluation can't be done at a troop meeting because it is more than just turning in notes. It's taking an exam. Oral exams, where the person can get an immediate evaluation are extremely efficient. That's why we want our counselors working with just one or two boys at a time.

 

It is a lot harder to get 12 boys through this kind of process. But, one year from now, guess which boys are gonna remember the material? Moreover, guess which boys are gonna have the confidence to go out on their own and get more challenging material or contact an instructor on the subject?

So, your telling E441 it's okay to not offer the boys the merit badge pamphlet or some other reference? That scouts will learn better without it? Should they simply hang on E441's explanation (very good though it may be)?

[EagleScout441]

Here is my opinion about worksheets and notes for merit badges. First of all, it depends on what the requirement is. Nobody should be accepting written material for "demonstrate" or "show", because those things cannot be done with words alone, regardless of whether the words are written or oral. If the requirement is to "explain" or "describe" I think that is a different story. If the Scout explains or describes the subject matter in writing, I would accept that, but it has to be in his own words. So a worksheet written out by the Scout would be ok with me. But "notes", meaning notes taken by the Scout while the instructor or counselor is speaking (which, as I understand this thread, is accepted by the troop in question), would not be acceptable to me. That would just be turning my (assuming I'm the counselor) words back in to me. That is not an explanation or a description BY THE SCOUT. Now, one might respond that the Scout could just take his notes of my statement and write the answer on the worksheet based on the notes. I'm ok with that. In doing that, the Scout is inevitably going to gain (and pass along to me) at least some understanding of the subject matter. He first has to figure out which statements, in his notes, respond to which question. He then has to adapt the words in his notes to the format of the question. He then has to write the answer. Even in that limited process, learning is going on, and he is explaining or describing what he is supposed to explain or describe. In my opinion, anyway.

 

"Discuss" is a little different, although I just looked at the requirements for two merit badges at random, Cit in the Community and Chess (ok, that one wasn't really at random), and it seems to me that the BSA sometimes uses "explain" and "discuss" interchangeably, which they shouldn't. "Explain" means you are telling me something - it could be a one-way communication and still meet the requirement (which is why I would accept a written answer.) "Discuss" means that you and I are talking to each other about the subject -- it's a two-way communication. In the case of a merit badge (or First Class requirement number 5 (I think), for which I am the designated "discusser" in my troop) I want the Scout to tell me what he knows about the subject, then I will ask him some questions designed to make him think about it some more, and see what more he knows, then I will usually tell him some things about the subject that he may not know. This may prompt him to say things back to me about the subject. In other words, a discussion. The reason for "discuss" rather than "explain" is (or should be) that the Scout can gain something from what I know about the subject. Now, does that mean the "discussion" can be all me? No. My expectation is that the Scout will do MOST of the talking, but there have been some discussions for the First Class requirement in which I have probably done the majority of the talking, and as long as the Scout is contributing significantly to the conversation, I believe he has succeeded in "discussing" it. This CANNOT be completed solely with a worksheet. PART of it can be. The Scout can write down what he knows on the worksheet, then give it to me, and we then talk about it, and I do my part of the requirement, and he does the rest of his part by answering my questions and adding whatever he has to add.

 

It may be that there is some training or guidance from the BSA on what I have discussed (ha ha) above, but I don't know what it is. Hopefully it is something close to what I think it should be.

"Demonstrate" requirements must be demonstrated, "explain" requirements must be explained, period. "Discuss" requirements must be discussed, many users have said that discussions would be one on one with the MBC, but why can't they be a group discussion?

[EagleScout441]

Here is my opinion about worksheets and notes for merit badges. First of all, it depends on what the requirement is. Nobody should be accepting written material for "demonstrate" or "show", because those things cannot be done with words alone, regardless of whether the words are written or oral. If the requirement is to "explain" or "describe" I think that is a different story. If the Scout explains or describes the subject matter in writing, I would accept that, but it has to be in his own words. So a worksheet written out by the Scout would be ok with me. But "notes", meaning notes taken by the Scout while the instructor or counselor is speaking (which, as I understand this thread, is accepted by the troop in question), would not be acceptable to me. That would just be turning my (assuming I'm the counselor) words back in to me. That is not an explanation or a description BY THE SCOUT. Now, one might respond that the Scout could just take his notes of my statement and write the answer on the worksheet based on the notes. I'm ok with that. In doing that, the Scout is inevitably going to gain (and pass along to me) at least some understanding of the subject matter. He first has to figure out which statements, in his notes, respond to which question. He then has to adapt the words in his notes to the format of the question. He then has to write the answer. Even in that limited process, learning is going on, and he is explaining or describing what he is supposed to explain or describe. In my opinion, anyway.

 

"Discuss" is a little different, although I just looked at the requirements for two merit badges at random, Cit in the Community and Chess (ok, that one wasn't really at random), and it seems to me that the BSA sometimes uses "explain" and "discuss" interchangeably, which they shouldn't. "Explain" means you are telling me something - it could be a one-way communication and still meet the requirement (which is why I would accept a written answer.) "Discuss" means that you and I are talking to each other about the subject -- it's a two-way communication. In the case of a merit badge (or First Class requirement number 5 (I think), for which I am the designated "discusser" in my troop) I want the Scout to tell me what he knows about the subject, then I will ask him some questions designed to make him think about it some more, and see what more he knows, then I will usually tell him some things about the subject that he may not know. This may prompt him to say things back to me about the subject. In other words, a discussion. The reason for "discuss" rather than "explain" is (or should be) that the Scout can gain something from what I know about the subject. Now, does that mean the "discussion" can be all me? No. My expectation is that the Scout will do MOST of the talking, but there have been some discussions for the First Class requirement in which I have probably done the majority of the talking, and as long as the Scout is contributing significantly to the conversation, I believe he has succeeded in "discussing" it. This CANNOT be completed solely with a worksheet. PART of it can be. The Scout can write down what he knows on the worksheet, then give it to me, and we then talk about it, and I do my part of the requirement, and he does the rest of his part by answering my questions and adding whatever he has to add.

 

It may be that there is some training or guidance from the BSA on what I have discussed (ha ha) above, but I don't know what it is. Hopefully it is something close to what I think it should be.

BTW, "en passant" is French for "in passing," it is a capturing method for pawns.