Why Do I Feel Like an Idiot?

[qwazse]

The only MB I had left to do for Eagle was Cit in the World, and I was living overseas at the time....

We had 6 from the same den age out as Eagles this year. They did a lot in terms of coaching each other. We have a project advisor. That's mainly because the process can be unforgiving and you want one person on top of how the district wants things done. Also, our boys often go for these pretty challenging restoration projects, so getting a general contractor to review plans is never a bad idea.

 

For my part, I make a point of just part of my chit-chat with 1st Class Scouts to be: "So, what's the plan?" After a while, they get an idea that I want them to be able to rattle off what they need for their next rank, and what they are working on now.

 

That way we try to avoid the "cluelessness factor" without being an "Eagle mill."

[BartHumphries]

Maybe it's because of the "non-camping" things you have to do, requirement 9b. Camping alone won't earn you the camping merit badge.

[perdidochas]

Maybe it's because of the "non-camping" things you have to do, requirement 9b. Camping alone won't earn you the camping merit badge.

9b, to me, is the real great part of the badge. It forces troops to do different things--not just plop camping and messing around.

[Eagle92]

Well here's an interesting update to the situation. Scout in question completed the 2 Eagle required MBs needed for Life in time for him to have a BOR at his 17.5 years old mark, Problem was the adults; they could not meet with him in person in time. Since the have worked with him over the past 3-4 years, have tried to encourage him to go for Eagle, etc etc, they did a BOR in absentia for him. Paperwork was signed off and sent in. He now has exactly 180 days to get Eagle.

 

As I mentioned a lot of folks have tried to encourage him. FWIW, he did not see himself as an Eagle, yet he is one of the guys I would trust my kids' lives with in the outdoors if things hit the fan. Heck I used him for ITOLS staff b/c he knows his stuff and I thought he had Camping MB. But none of the adults motivated him.

 

It was one of his buddies from summer camp staff, who got his Eagle recently, and basically said, "Dude, really? You don't want to get your Eagle? You know your $#!T better than most Eagles, and you are not even going to try? What's up with that?" Peer pressure can be a wonderful thing.

[Basementdweller]

Well here's an interesting update to the situation. Scout in question completed the 2 Eagle required MBs needed for Life in time for him to have a BOR at his 17.5 years old mark, Problem was the adults; they could not meet with him in person in time. Since the have worked with him over the past 3-4 years, have tried to encourage him to go for Eagle, etc etc, they did a BOR in absentia for him. Paperwork was signed off and sent in. He now has exactly 180 days to get Eagle.

 

As I mentioned a lot of folks have tried to encourage him. FWIW, he did not see himself as an Eagle, yet he is one of the guys I would trust my kids' lives with in the outdoors if things hit the fan. Heck I used him for ITOLS staff b/c he knows his stuff and I thought he had Camping MB. But none of the adults motivated him.

 

It was one of his buddies from summer camp staff, who got his Eagle recently, and basically said, "Dude, really? You don't want to get your Eagle? You know your $#!T better than most Eagles, and you are not even going to try? What's up with that?" Peer pressure can be a wonderful thing.

"they did a BOR in absentia for him"

 

Not sure I agree with that.......The adults could not meet with him in person.....Then how did they get together to hold the BOR???? Short of death in the family, or hospital if the lad is interested he should have been there.

[qwazse]

Well here's an interesting update to the situation. Scout in question completed the 2 Eagle required MBs needed for Life in time for him to have a BOR at his 17.5 years old mark, Problem was the adults; they could not meet with him in person in time. Since the have worked with him over the past 3-4 years, have tried to encourage him to go for Eagle, etc etc, they did a BOR in absentia for him. Paperwork was signed off and sent in. He now has exactly 180 days to get Eagle.

 

As I mentioned a lot of folks have tried to encourage him. FWIW, he did not see himself as an Eagle, yet he is one of the guys I would trust my kids' lives with in the outdoors if things hit the fan. Heck I used him for ITOLS staff b/c he knows his stuff and I thought he had Camping MB. But none of the adults motivated him.

 

It was one of his buddies from summer camp staff, who got his Eagle recently, and basically said, "Dude, really? You don't want to get your Eagle? You know your $#!T better than most Eagles, and you are not even going to try? What's up with that?" Peer pressure can be a wonderful thing.

We did one of those 17+179 day SMC's once. Same kind of kid as yours. Comfortable in the outdoors, solid citizen, no clue the bird was within his grasp. Don't remember how we did his BOR. I do remember his E-SMC was on the flight to Philmont, and the application Fed-Exed to dad who brought it to us at summer camp for the CCs signature a day before his birthday.

 

For kids like that, boards will be extremely flexible. (Especially in troops where committee members do camp with the troop and observe the goings-on.) Obviously, that opens the door for a 17.5 y.o. slacker to fax in midnight blue cards insisting on an absentee BOR for Life, pointing to what you did for Johny Superscout, to which the troop needs a CC with some spine to say "Sorry, you ain't him! Show up or shut it down."

[Eagle92]

Base,

 

Good question. He's involved extracurriculars at school, specifically soccer, and was not able to make the normal meeting nite due to a game. My understanding was that the adults were suppose to meet with him the next nite, but something came up last minute. The adults talked amongst themselves and decided to do it that way.

 

Troop is interesting becasue the committee is basically the former SM and former ASMs. They go camping with the troop when they can. They know the scouts very well. Reason they are now committee and not active leaders is due to work commitment. While their CO is a church, most of the leaders work at one local company which has been expanding in the past few years. They want to be involved and support the troop, but cannot be more active.

[Basementdweller]

Base,

 

Good question. He's involved extracurriculars at school, specifically soccer, and was not able to make the normal meeting nite due to a game. My understanding was that the adults were suppose to meet with him the next nite, but something came up last minute. The adults talked amongst themselves and decided to do it that way.

 

Troop is interesting becasue the committee is basically the former SM and former ASMs. They go camping with the troop when they can. They know the scouts very well. Reason they are now committee and not active leaders is due to work commitment. While their CO is a church, most of the leaders work at one local company which has been expanding in the past few years. They want to be involved and support the troop, but cannot be more active.

Ok, but that still fails to answer the question,

 

If the lad is too involved in extracurriculars at school, too busy to attend a BOR for a Chance at his Eagle.....In my opinion it really doesn't matter to him.....

 

 

I appreciate the sentiment from the committee........BUT????????

[Scouter99]

What is a board of review?

From the Troop Committee Guidebook:

When a Scout has completed all the requirements for a rank, he appears before a board of review composed of at least three and not more than six committee members.

The review has three purposes:

I. To make sure that the work has been learned and completed.

2. To find out what kind of experience the Scout is having in his patrol and troop.

3. To encourage the Scout to progress further.

The board of review is not a time to retest the Scout, but to determine the Scout's attitude and his acceptance of Scouting ideals. It is also important to review those Scouts who are not advancing. The guidance and care shown could motivate these Scouts to further achievement. The review should be conducted at a convenient time and location, such as a troop meeting, summer camp. or the home of a member of the troop committee. Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters do not participate in the board of review.

. . .

Because many boys are ill at ease when talking to adults, it is important that the board of review be held in a relaxed atmosphere. A certain amount of formality and meaningful questioning should be used during the review. Use questions that require a narrative answer.

Examples of the kinds of questions that might be asked are:

• What do you like most in troop outdoor activities?

• What new things did you do/learn on your latest campout/service project/troop meeting?

• What did you learn/feel in giving service to others?

• Why is being a Boy Scout important to you?

• What are your goals in Scouting?

• How will fulfilling requirement number help you?

These types of questions will help the Scout to see the value and practical application of his efforts.

At the conclusion of the review, the board should know whether a Scout is qualified for the rank or Palm. The Scout is asked to leave the room while the board members discuss his achievements. The decision of the board of review is arrived at through discussion and must be unanimous. If members are satisfied that the Scout is ready to advance, he is called in, congratulated, notified as to when he will receive his recognition, and encouraged to continue his advancement or earn the next Palm.

(emphasis mine)

 

A board of review by definition involves the scout; it is not possible to conduct a board of review in absentia. The boy did not appear, he was not questioned, his attitudes and character were not ascertained, his experiences in the troop were not discovered. It's not nice that the committee rubber-stamped him, it's a sham.

Your committee can review what a board of review is and how to conduct one in the Guide to Advancement for free at www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf‎

[Basementdweller]

What is a board of review?

From the Troop Committee Guidebook:

When a Scout has completed all the requirements for a rank, he appears before a board of review composed of at least three and not more than six committee members.

The review has three purposes:

I. To make sure that the work has been learned and completed.

2. To find out what kind of experience the Scout is having in his patrol and troop.

3. To encourage the Scout to progress further.

The board of review is not a time to retest the Scout, but to determine the Scout's attitude and his acceptance of Scouting ideals. It is also important to review those Scouts who are not advancing. The guidance and care shown could motivate these Scouts to further achievement. The review should be conducted at a convenient time and location, such as a troop meeting, summer camp. or the home of a member of the troop committee. Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters do not participate in the board of review.

. . .

Because many boys are ill at ease when talking to adults, it is important that the board of review be held in a relaxed atmosphere. A certain amount of formality and meaningful questioning should be used during the review. Use questions that require a narrative answer.

Examples of the kinds of questions that might be asked are:

• What do you like most in troop outdoor activities?

• What new things did you do/learn on your latest campout/service project/troop meeting?

• What did you learn/feel in giving service to others?

• Why is being a Boy Scout important to you?

• What are your goals in Scouting?

• How will fulfilling requirement number help you?

These types of questions will help the Scout to see the value and practical application of his efforts.

At the conclusion of the review, the board should know whether a Scout is qualified for the rank or Palm. The Scout is asked to leave the room while the board members discuss his achievements. The decision of the board of review is arrived at through discussion and must be unanimous. If members are satisfied that the Scout is ready to advance, he is called in, congratulated, notified as to when he will receive his recognition, and encouraged to continue his advancement or earn the next Palm.

(emphasis mine)

 

A board of review by definition involves the scout; it is not possible to conduct a board of review in absentia. The boy did not appear, he was not questioned, his attitudes and character were not ascertained, his experiences in the troop were not discovered. It's not nice that the committee rubber-stamped him, it's a sham.

Your committee can review what a board of review is and how to conduct one in the Guide to Advancement for free at www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf‎

Old 92 knows the rules or guidelines. He probably has more total years active in scouting than I do....

 

He or his troop is cutting the lad a huge break.......Which is ok, But......if he is that busy, not sure how he will ever get a project planned and done.

[Scouter99]

What is a board of review?

From the Troop Committee Guidebook:

When a Scout has completed all the requirements for a rank, he appears before a board of review composed of at least three and not more than six committee members.

The review has three purposes:

I. To make sure that the work has been learned and completed.

2. To find out what kind of experience the Scout is having in his patrol and troop.

3. To encourage the Scout to progress further.

The board of review is not a time to retest the Scout, but to determine the Scout's attitude and his acceptance of Scouting ideals. It is also important to review those Scouts who are not advancing. The guidance and care shown could motivate these Scouts to further achievement. The review should be conducted at a convenient time and location, such as a troop meeting, summer camp. or the home of a member of the troop committee. Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters do not participate in the board of review.

. . .

Because many boys are ill at ease when talking to adults, it is important that the board of review be held in a relaxed atmosphere. A certain amount of formality and meaningful questioning should be used during the review. Use questions that require a narrative answer.

Examples of the kinds of questions that might be asked are:

• What do you like most in troop outdoor activities?

• What new things did you do/learn on your latest campout/service project/troop meeting?

• What did you learn/feel in giving service to others?

• Why is being a Boy Scout important to you?

• What are your goals in Scouting?

• How will fulfilling requirement number help you?

These types of questions will help the Scout to see the value and practical application of his efforts.

At the conclusion of the review, the board should know whether a Scout is qualified for the rank or Palm. The Scout is asked to leave the room while the board members discuss his achievements. The decision of the board of review is arrived at through discussion and must be unanimous. If members are satisfied that the Scout is ready to advance, he is called in, congratulated, notified as to when he will receive his recognition, and encouraged to continue his advancement or earn the next Palm.

(emphasis mine)

 

A board of review by definition involves the scout; it is not possible to conduct a board of review in absentia. The boy did not appear, he was not questioned, his attitudes and character were not ascertained, his experiences in the troop were not discovered. It's not nice that the committee rubber-stamped him, it's a sham.

Your committee can review what a board of review is and how to conduct one in the Guide to Advancement for free at www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf‎

Maybe the adults will do his project for him, too.

[Eagle92]

Yep I know the rules and was surprised when I found out what happened. And I admit I cut the guy some slack when it came to camping MB since i and everyone who knows the scout were surprised he didn't have camping already. I made him do the paperwork, but only asked a few questions about his expereince as related to specific activities that I didn't know about, i.e. elevation on a backpacking trip, when he did the climbing repelling, etc. I've seen the kid grow up from Webelos to now, and have served as an MBC for him, Elangomat advisor for his Ordeal, recruited him to teach IOLS to adults, etc. I watched the kid grow up. I tried to talk him into getting both Brotherhood and Eagle. So not only know a lot about him, but also I have very mixed emotions on this matter.

 

In regards to the service project, believe it or not he was coming up with ideas for it before getting Life. When asking his dad a question, dad's reply was "I'll get you the number for you to call." The adults will not be doing anything except what they are told to do by him. My understanding is that he will be formalizing the project and hopes to execute during the Christmas break.

[Basementdweller]

What is a board of review?

From the Troop Committee Guidebook:

When a Scout has completed all the requirements for a rank, he appears before a board of review composed of at least three and not more than six committee members.

The review has three purposes:

I. To make sure that the work has been learned and completed.

2. To find out what kind of experience the Scout is having in his patrol and troop.

3. To encourage the Scout to progress further.

The board of review is not a time to retest the Scout, but to determine the Scout's attitude and his acceptance of Scouting ideals. It is also important to review those Scouts who are not advancing. The guidance and care shown could motivate these Scouts to further achievement. The review should be conducted at a convenient time and location, such as a troop meeting, summer camp. or the home of a member of the troop committee. Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters do not participate in the board of review.

. . .

Because many boys are ill at ease when talking to adults, it is important that the board of review be held in a relaxed atmosphere. A certain amount of formality and meaningful questioning should be used during the review. Use questions that require a narrative answer.

Examples of the kinds of questions that might be asked are:

• What do you like most in troop outdoor activities?

• What new things did you do/learn on your latest campout/service project/troop meeting?

• What did you learn/feel in giving service to others?

• Why is being a Boy Scout important to you?

• What are your goals in Scouting?

• How will fulfilling requirement number help you?

These types of questions will help the Scout to see the value and practical application of his efforts.

At the conclusion of the review, the board should know whether a Scout is qualified for the rank or Palm. The Scout is asked to leave the room while the board members discuss his achievements. The decision of the board of review is arrived at through discussion and must be unanimous. If members are satisfied that the Scout is ready to advance, he is called in, congratulated, notified as to when he will receive his recognition, and encouraged to continue his advancement or earn the next Palm.

(emphasis mine)

 

A board of review by definition involves the scout; it is not possible to conduct a board of review in absentia. The boy did not appear, he was not questioned, his attitudes and character were not ascertained, his experiences in the troop were not discovered. It's not nice that the committee rubber-stamped him, it's a sham.

Your committee can review what a board of review is and how to conduct one in the Guide to Advancement for free at www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf‎

according to national the average is 130 hours for the eagle project.

 

 

Just saying...

[qwazse]

This boils down to "letter" vs "spirit" kind of thing. If you've endured Eagle mills all of your life (or even a small fraction of your life), you switch into a bean-counting MC to prevent one more unfit candidate from skating by. If you are used to high caliber boys who are Eagle material letting an opportunity for recognition slip by, you are going to stretch the definition of BOR (or whatever single technicality is in the way) to make it work for that boy. There is little love lost between "bean-counters" and "stretchers" so don't expect the one camp to praise the other anytime soon. We probably endure one another more than actually win one another over. But if in the end every boy makes the most of his scouting experience, we all win.

[Basementdweller]

This boils down to "letter" vs "spirit" kind of thing. If you've endured Eagle mills all of your life (or even a small fraction of your life), you switch into a bean-counting MC to prevent one more unfit candidate from skating by. If you are used to high caliber boys who are Eagle material letting an opportunity for recognition slip by, you are going to stretch the definition of BOR (or whatever single technicality is in the way) to make it work for that boy. There is little love lost between "bean-counters" and "stretchers" so don't expect the one camp to praise the other anytime soon. We probably endure one another more than actually win one another over. But if in the end every boy makes the most of his scouting experience, we all win.

No argument the lad sounds deserving. But deserving just isn't enough.

 

For all of the lads who participated in a high speed low drag program and receiving Eagle at 13 or 14. This young man seems completely opposite of that.

 

For that reason I am rooting for him to finish the last set of hurdles.