Whittling Chip: Earned by Wolves, what do I do?

[Pack18Alex]

So the Whittling Chip is a Bear Achievement, normally done then.

 

According to the March Guide to Safe Scouting, pocket knives can be carried by Cubs, Bears only.

 

During Summer Camp, they did the Whittling Chip with all the levels, and the report sent from the Camp to the Cubmasters/Leaders said that they all earned their Whittling Chip.

 

I know that with Merit Badges, once signed off on, the Scout Master has no authority over it, what to do with this one? My read on it doesn't say ANYWHERE that only Bears/Webelos can earn their whittling chip, just that "this activity is appropriate for Bears and Webelos." I wouldn't schedule Wolves to work on their Whittling Chip, but they went to camp, did the work, and earned it, and it doesn't seem right to not award their achievement.

 

Our inclination (I'm ACM/CC, CM and I discussed it) is to award the Whittling Chip to the boys that earned it with the card to sign. The Wolves won't be able to carry their knives on Campouts until June, but parents can carry it for them and they can use them supervised. In all likelihood, they'll get their first knives from Popcorn sales at the earliest anyways, so December/January timeframe, so we're talking a few months without carrying them to Scout functions.

 

I think that our solution complies to G2SS and the spirit of awarding things earned.

 

Thoughts?

[walk in the woods]

Yeah, idk. Feels a lot like common sense. You may want to rethink that. . Put in a quick refresher when they move up to Bears next spring to get any new scouts or those that didn't attend camp up to speed and sign it off.

[koolaidman]

"earned the right to carry a pocket knife to designated Cub Scout functions" The word "designated" gives you a lot of control as to when the boys are allowed to actually have a knife.

 

[King Ding Dong]

I think the plan keeping the wolves very supervised is key. I would make sure it was a parent and have a very large blood circle. You know the boys and their maturity level, there are boys in my Bear den I would be very uncomfortable with carrying a knife. A planned knife activity on a campout could be a good outlet. It is hard keeping boys that age from just wanting to get it out and just play with it when they get board and constant visual supervision is nearly impossible. I did not allow my oldest to carry his knife on campouts until he earned the Toten Chip in Scouts. Partially because he had difficulty closing it and I just didn't see the need for it on the cub campouts unless he was sitting down and whittling a stick. Like dc said a refresher is a good idea. I would make the cubs read the pledge and rules before any knife activity. Repetition.

[Basementdweller]

I would do a bit of quality control.

 

Check and see if they actually learned something..... I would go a head redo it.....I have yet to meet a bear who is upset at spending the den meeting whittling.

[Sakitama]

I agree with Basementdweller, have the kids demonstrate what they learned. Perhaps have boys work together to present during Pack Meeting some of the things they learned during Summer Camp (you can even help guide them to do this). Whittling Chip is a big deal to cubs so include some Knife Safety tips (which can be helpful to remind a Tiger who may be watching an older scout use their knife to keep a safe distance). This may also help promote summer camp participation next year as well and kinda cement in the safety aspects of working with knives.

[Stosh]

I was a Bear when I got my first personal pocket knife. It was a Cub knife. However, having grown up in an outdoors family, I had been using knives long before then. Cleaning game and filleting fish was a way of life. Whittling? I had access to my dad's knife long before I got one of my own. I've carried one ever since. How often do I use it? Just this morning I opened a box shipped to me at work. It was no big deal, my parents made no big issue about it and over the years the only one that cut is me.

 

The more everyone makes an issue about it, the more the kids get curious.

 

Dad made it clear to me from the beginning, it's a tool, not a weapon. He gave me the same lecture when I got the keys to the car when I turned 16.

 

Stosh

[Pack18Alex]

Thanks everyone. Only two Wolves were in that class, I was Den Leader, and one was my son. I was actually VERY impressed with what they covered. My son is meticulous at using his knife skills at home, practicing on vegetables. The other wolf was meticulous as well. If it wasn't for the G2SS requiring Bears for carrying pocket knives, I'd have no question that they did what they were supposed to do.

 

Regarding the refresher, sounds good. We will be doing a Whittling Chip Den Meeting later in the year for the Bears and the Webelos who don't have it, I might send the Wolves that earned their Whittling Chip to that one as a refresher and have my other Wolves. Next year, we'll do Whittling Chip for Bears, but I thought that recognizing it and giving them the "chip" early (even if in practice they can't do anything with it) would be a good motivator for day camp next year.

 

I was just trying to deal with the conflicts, an activity that I am advised is inappropriate for wolves was done at a council approved district event, the leader of that event told me that the boys earned the award, so I'm trying to reconcile to conflicting policies. Since the boys are unlikely to carry knives this year, and we'll redo it next year, I'm not hugely concerned with the safety aspect of this. My main concern was reconcile two conflicting BSA guidelines, Always follow G2SS, and Always award earned achievements ASAP.

[walk in the woods]

I was a Bear when I got my first personal pocket knife. It was a Cub knife. However, having grown up in an outdoors family, I had been using knives long before then. Cleaning game and filleting fish was a way of life. Whittling? I had access to my dad's knife long before I got one of my own. I've carried one ever since. How often do I use it? Just this morning I opened a box shipped to me at work. It was no big deal, my parents made no big issue about it and over the years the only one that cut is me.

 

The more everyone makes an issue about it, the more the kids get curious.

 

Dad made it clear to me from the beginning, it's a tool, not a weapon. He gave me the same lecture when I got the keys to the car when I turned 16.

 

Stosh

And Dad wasn't afraid to enforce the rules if he was like mine . I got the same speech when I received my first .22 for Xmas. Must have been 12 or 13 at the time. FWIW, I'm no longer allowed to carry a knife to work. Knives are evil. But, my system administrators tool is ok.

[Basementdweller]

Thanks everyone. Only two Wolves were in that class, I was Den Leader, and one was my son. I was actually VERY impressed with what they covered. My son is meticulous at using his knife skills at home, practicing on vegetables. The other wolf was meticulous as well. If it wasn't for the G2SS requiring Bears for carrying pocket knives, I'd have no question that they did what they were supposed to do.

 

Regarding the refresher, sounds good. We will be doing a Whittling Chip Den Meeting later in the year for the Bears and the Webelos who don't have it, I might send the Wolves that earned their Whittling Chip to that one as a refresher and have my other Wolves. Next year, we'll do Whittling Chip for Bears, but I thought that recognizing it and giving them the "chip" early (even if in practice they can't do anything with it) would be a good motivator for day camp next year.

 

I was just trying to deal with the conflicts, an activity that I am advised is inappropriate for wolves was done at a council approved district event, the leader of that event told me that the boys earned the award, so I'm trying to reconcile to conflicting policies. Since the boys are unlikely to carry knives this year, and we'll redo it next year, I'm not hugely concerned with the safety aspect of this. My main concern was reconcile two conflicting BSA guidelines, Always follow G2SS, and Always award earned achievements ASAP.

often the folks who are running the event are just like you....And often have less of an understaning of the program than you do....

 

Just because it is a council or district event doesn't mean mistakes can't be made.

 

Alex.....The Boy Scouts have the same problem....The Scout Master handbook says to award rank advancement ASAP after the Board of Review. My Troop is the only one I am aware of that actually does that......

[Stosh]

Thanks everyone. Only two Wolves were in that class, I was Den Leader, and one was my son. I was actually VERY impressed with what they covered. My son is meticulous at using his knife skills at home, practicing on vegetables. The other wolf was meticulous as well. If it wasn't for the G2SS requiring Bears for carrying pocket knives, I'd have no question that they did what they were supposed to do.

 

Regarding the refresher, sounds good. We will be doing a Whittling Chip Den Meeting later in the year for the Bears and the Webelos who don't have it, I might send the Wolves that earned their Whittling Chip to that one as a refresher and have my other Wolves. Next year, we'll do Whittling Chip for Bears, but I thought that recognizing it and giving them the "chip" early (even if in practice they can't do anything with it) would be a good motivator for day camp next year.

 

I was just trying to deal with the conflicts, an activity that I am advised is inappropriate for wolves was done at a council approved district event, the leader of that event told me that the boys earned the award, so I'm trying to reconcile to conflicting policies. Since the boys are unlikely to carry knives this year, and we'll redo it next year, I'm not hugely concerned with the safety aspect of this. My main concern was reconcile two conflicting BSA guidelines, Always follow G2SS, and Always award earned achievements ASAP.

In my troop, the toten chit was only valid for one year. That is not according to regs, not valid, but I do not care. In all the years of scouting I've never done first aid for a knife cut. And if I see any infractions the whole card goes not just a corner.

 

Stosh

[King Ding Dong]

Thanks everyone. Only two Wolves were in that class, I was Den Leader, and one was my son. I was actually VERY impressed with what they covered. My son is meticulous at using his knife skills at home, practicing on vegetables. The other wolf was meticulous as well. If it wasn't for the G2SS requiring Bears for carrying pocket knives, I'd have no question that they did what they were supposed to do.

 

Regarding the refresher, sounds good. We will be doing a Whittling Chip Den Meeting later in the year for the Bears and the Webelos who don't have it, I might send the Wolves that earned their Whittling Chip to that one as a refresher and have my other Wolves. Next year, we'll do Whittling Chip for Bears, but I thought that recognizing it and giving them the "chip" early (even if in practice they can't do anything with it) would be a good motivator for day camp next year.

 

I was just trying to deal with the conflicts, an activity that I am advised is inappropriate for wolves was done at a council approved district event, the leader of that event told me that the boys earned the award, so I'm trying to reconcile to conflicting policies. Since the boys are unlikely to carry knives this year, and we'll redo it next year, I'm not hugely concerned with the safety aspect of this. My main concern was reconcile two conflicting BSA guidelines, Always follow G2SS, and Always award earned achievements ASAP.

It is Totin' Chip and Firem'n Chit. Why do they have to make it so hard ?

[AKdenldr]

Our cub camp does the same thing (and I can understand why from a safety factor). I awarded the wolf scouts with their whittling chip. But they did not carry them to scout functions. After school den meeting (because of the location) was not permitted. Weekend scout functions (picking up trash?) needed to be in their pockets until, 'you need to use that tool'. Typically for those events the parents were around. At that age we had the scouts ask permission to use their knife. That cut down quite a bit on the interest in just hacking on something.

 

I agree that a den meeting where scouts get to use their knives is of high interest. Heck, Webelos enjoyed cutting up apples at camp.

[Pack18Alex]

Thanks everyone. Only two Wolves were in that class, I was Den Leader, and one was my son. I was actually VERY impressed with what they covered. My son is meticulous at using his knife skills at home, practicing on vegetables. The other wolf was meticulous as well. If it wasn't for the G2SS requiring Bears for carrying pocket knives, I'd have no question that they did what they were supposed to do.

 

Regarding the refresher, sounds good. We will be doing a Whittling Chip Den Meeting later in the year for the Bears and the Webelos who don't have it, I might send the Wolves that earned their Whittling Chip to that one as a refresher and have my other Wolves. Next year, we'll do Whittling Chip for Bears, but I thought that recognizing it and giving them the "chip" early (even if in practice they can't do anything with it) would be a good motivator for day camp next year.

 

I was just trying to deal with the conflicts, an activity that I am advised is inappropriate for wolves was done at a council approved district event, the leader of that event told me that the boys earned the award, so I'm trying to reconcile to conflicting policies. Since the boys are unlikely to carry knives this year, and we'll redo it next year, I'm not hugely concerned with the safety aspect of this. My main concern was reconcile two conflicting BSA guidelines, Always follow G2SS, and Always award earned achievements ASAP.

BD, absolutely. I don't think it occurred to anyone, "G2SS changed on this minor point 3 months before Day Camp, we need an alternative Skill project for the Wolves, and therefore our volunteer Scouts/Venturers need to do double work that day."

 

I really enjoyed being a volunteer at cub scout camp. I got to shore up my weaknesses (the scout spirit, some of the working with youth issues), and realized how strong I was in my strengths (organization, understanding regulations, etc). I got to have a ton of fun, get outdoors and out of the office for a week, and improve myself... hard to complain with that.

 

I'm aware that the council/district made a technical mistake.

 

However, awarding the Chip to the two Webelos that were there and NOT the two Wolves (one of whom is a younger brother of a Webelos) seems remarkably unfair, and discouraging a youth that has every reason to be proud of their achievement.

 

I brought up the analogy to a SM and MBC, because it seemed like in some regard, that was fair, and how I'm handling some of these situations.

 

I ended up awarding Fishing Belt Loops that I wouldn't have the boys didn't get 30 minutes of practice (lightning, overcrowded camp, etc.). My son and I went fishing so he could wrap up the unit (reason I love being a Scout Parent/Leader, my son has been bugging me to take him fishing forever, never got around to it, well, Scouting called, and away we went, great family moment). But the Den Leader with the Webelos awarded it, so despite my feeling that it wasn't completed, we're awarding the loop.

[Pack18Alex]

Our cub camp does the same thing (and I can understand why from a safety factor). I awarded the wolf scouts with their whittling chip. But they did not carry them to scout functions. After school den meeting (because of the location) was not permitted. Weekend scout functions (picking up trash?) needed to be in their pockets until, 'you need to use that tool'. Typically for those events the parents were around. At that age we had the scouts ask permission to use their knife. That cut down quite a bit on the interest in just hacking on something.

 

I agree that a den meeting where scouts get to use their knives is of high interest. Heck, Webelos enjoyed cutting up apples at camp.

AKdenldr, thanks so much. Glad to see I'm not crazy with that solution.