Troops Attending Church on Campouts

[qwazse]

Later day saints? Some Mormons are very punctual. Latter-day Saints is what you may have meant. Let's eat Grandma!

To avoid seeming like cannibals, some also punctuate well. Let's eat, Grandma!

[qwazse]

I am part of a Catholic sponsored unit. We do attend Mass on campouts if we're not going to be back in time for scouts to attend with their families. We have a few non Catholics as members; we let their parents decide if they will attend with us, if they don't want to they can hang out in the parking lot or back at camp depending on logistics.

 

This probably warrants a talk with your Pastor, I would be surprised if he actually supports the idea of non Catholics being required to attend Mass. It's likely that this is some interpretation or tradition that hasn't been properly questioned in a long time.

T2E, the counter-reformation is a grand part of that tradition. I'm sure some of the church board members think it's their turn to bring it about again!

 

SMW, don't write off those travelling pastors. By virtue of their having moved around a lot, they can bring a truly catholic perspective to the picture. This summer, at an Eagle court of honor, I met one of the priests of a local Catholic CO. He was from Vietnam and had some unique scouting experiences as a child. I hope the troop will give him more opportunities to share in their program.

 

The point is that for some people, you have to say "I talked to Father ___ and Bishop ___, about this very thing, and we're going a long with his suggestions." On one level, it's stupid. You and your committee have are smart people, and should be able to say that you all thought about it, and whatever policy you came up with made the most sense based on the teachings of the Church. (It's not like they are locked in a closet someplace.) But, some people won't regard your decision until a holy man is involved.

[howarthe]

From the GTA,

Section 1. Freedom, clause 3.

In no case where a unit is connected with a church or other distinctively religious organization shall members of other denominations or faith be required, because of their membership in the unit, to take part in or observe a religious ceremony distinctly unique to that organization or church.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

What does GTA stand for?

[ADCinNC]

From the GTA,

Section 1. Freedom, clause 3.

In no case where a unit is connected with a church or other distinctively religious organization shall members of other denominations or faith be required, because of their membership in the unit, to take part in or observe a religious ceremony distinctly unique to that organization or church.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf'>http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

Guide to Advancement

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

[Pack18Alex]

I am part of a Catholic sponsored unit. We do attend Mass on campouts if we're not going to be back in time for scouts to attend with their families. We have a few non Catholics as members; we let their parents decide if they will attend with us, if they don't want to they can hang out in the parking lot or back at camp depending on logistics.

 

This probably warrants a talk with your Pastor, I would be surprised if he actually supports the idea of non Catholics being required to attend Mass. It's likely that this is some interpretation or tradition that hasn't been properly questioned in a long time.

Are they required to attend Mass or are they required to leave the Camp Site to head to the Church for which the Troop is attended? If it's the former, you definitely having a Scouting violation. If it's the latter, I don't see any problem. As long as those whose religion prohibits or discourages them from attending Mass are permitted to wait with the cars outside without any punitive action being taken, I don't see the problem.

 

I mean, you'd disclosing it to new members, it's not something sneaky and embarrassing, you're a Catholic Unit that requires participation in Catholicism on Campouts to a certain extent. Perhaps your religious disclosure to new families needs to include them signing a statement that nothing in their personal religious beliefs prevents them from participating in Mass during camp outs, which would preclude that Scouting violation, but that's not an issue of substance.

 

You have in here the only violation that may occur. You could require that everyone be Catholic, which would avoid this. I think you can also handle the communication/disclosure better, and or the opt-out procedure better.

 

But as said elsewhere, that policy no doubt excludes Scouts that might otherwise fit with your program, but that's a reasonable tradeoff to make, just make sure it's done properly

[Khaliela]

 

For our Scouts that do not belong to any church, the thought has always been it is good exposure at least one Sunday (or Saturday evening) a month.

 

.

 

I find that terribly disrespectful. I too was a member of a Catholic Troop that had the very same requirements; my boys and I are no longer members of that unit. We joined a Methodist Troop that respects our religious differences. There isn't anyone on the planet who hasn't heard the "good news," this means that if someone isn't Christian (or Catholic) it's because they choose not be.

 

Our current SM is Catholic; he also left the Catholic Troop because he didn't like the policy of forcing religion on to others (He had this crazy idea that people were given free will for the purpose of allowing them to exercise it and that included freedom to choose a religious preface.) Bottom line: You may end up running off your catholic membership as well as your non-Catholic membership.

Qwazse: Having heard the good news, and actually taking the time to process it are different. LOL!

 

I, too, find coerced invitations counter productive. I've attended many a Mass, Church service, and Meeting with the Mormons, when invited. I view them as cultural experiences. However, when told I MUST attend, I just flat out refuse. It's a, "you'll catch more flies with honey" thing I guess . . .

[Khaliela]

From the GTA,

Section 1. Freedom, clause 3.

In no case where a unit is connected with a church or other distinctively religious organization shall members of other denominations or faith be required, because of their membership in the unit, to take part in or observe a religious ceremony distinctly unique to that organization or church.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

KDD: the problem is the whole 'nonsectarian' thing. I'm from a liberal troop and even we have trouble following this.

 

When someone prays everyone is expected to sit though it; we don't say "Now everyone who doesn't want to hear Jonny pray, please leave the room" before proceeding. Either we should accept all the sects or not have a religious component at all.

 

To earn a Venturing Bronze award you have to learn about religions other than your own; perhaps it's time Boy Scouts did the same. (Granted I can already hear the Christians screaming "persecution!" I've never understood why it's OK for them to require the rest of us to attend their religious services, but's its persecution if we expect them to reciprocate.)

[Khaliela]

In an ideal world, we would always be back on Sunday morning in time for everyone to attend their own church, or no church. But that cannot always happen.

 

For our Scouts that do not belong to any church, the thought has always been it is good exposure at least one Sunday (or Saturday evening) a month.

 

For those Scouts that do belong to another denomination, I wish their churches had 1-hour services at 5:00pm Saturday, and 8 / 9:30 / 11 am on Sunday, and we had enough leaders to get them all to their different churches. But neither is the case. And on many occasions we would not have 2-deep leadership for any non-Catholic Scouts who would stay back in camp. So we all go to Mass together.

KDD: When I was with the Catholic Troop arrangements were made for a local parish to send a Priest or his designee out to where we were camping so the boys could take the sacrament of communion. You wouldn't believe how many priest were happy to tell their parishioners that they just wouldn't be around Sunday afternoon because they had to head to the hills to give communion to a bunch of Boy Scouts.

[cubdadinnj]

Isn't a scout (and scouter) respectful? (13th point of the scout law). We'll go to whatever religious services are available to the troop. It is usually Christian, but many flavors of that. It has also been Jewish or Muslim. We don't "make" everyone go. But do encourage attendance, as much as learning about other traditions as showing respect for others. Our troop chaplain's aides do a terrific job using materials from many faiths and spiritual traditions (we're not chartered by a religious group).

[dhendron]

Isn't a scout (and scouter) respectful? (13th point of the scout law). We'll go to whatever religious services are available to the troop. It is usually Christian, but many flavors of that. It has also been Jewish or Muslim. We don't "make" everyone go. But do encourage attendance, as much as learning about other traditions as showing respect for others. Our troop chaplain's aides do a terrific job using materials from many faiths and spiritual traditions (we're not chartered by a religious group).

I think the 13th point of the Scout Law is "A Scout is hungry" but I could be mistaken...