Troops Attending Church on Campouts

[SMWally]

Our Troop is chartered to a Catholic parish church, and we identify as that church's Scout Troop. By tradition, and on direction from the COR and parents association board, our Troop always attends Catholic Mass together while on campouts. We pretty much insist that all the Scouts attend together, treating it like any other part of the program. We make it clear to parents of Webelos crossing over, and new Scouts joining the Troop, that this is our policy. Even so, occasionally a new leader will balk and sit in the parking lot during Mass or take his son back to the campsite while the rest of us go. Most of the leaders and about half of the Scouts are Catholic. The other half of the Scouts are pretty evenly split between other Christian denominations or do not identify with any denomination at all. Is there any BSA policy on Troops attending church services together when they are sponsored by a religious institution?

[Stosh]

COR's can dictate membership requirements and make that clear up front before any scout joins. With that, mandating religion is a slippery slope that your COR is playing loose and free with. Instead of working to INCLUDE people and helping them feel welcomed, just the opposite might be happening. The Ecumenical Movement of the '60's brought to light by Pope John, might not haven gotten much footing in your COR's parish. It's unfortunate, because I don't see what's happening in your troop as happening in other Catholic COR's. If your troop is the only show in town, it's one thing to issue mandates, but if not, one may lose a few of the good scouts out there that either quit because their non-Catholics buddies go somewhere else.

 

If I were an ASM of that troop, I hope one would not hold it against me if I either opted out of the service, and/or slept through the one I was forced to go to.

 

I guess I just don't see many Catholic COR's expecting all their scouts to attend a mass instead of a service of their choice. I wouldn't expect Catholic scouters to go with them unless they wished to, either. Evangelism is an invite, not a mandate. Feel free to ignore my advise, I'm probably going to hell anyway.

 

Welcome to the Forum! I hope your thread gets some good discussion.

 

Stosh

[King Ding Dong]

What is the purpose of this policy ?

[Sentinel947]

As a Catholic, our Mass's have special significance to us. It is the point where we get redemption from our sins and partake in the grace of Jesus Christ. Why would you want to force outsiders to attend ? Most of them will look on that in a disfavorable way and may cause them to leave your unit. Invite them to attend, and leave it at that. I agree with Jblake on his points.

 

 

 

I'm not aware of any BSA documents that point to anything of this nature. There could be.

 

 

 

"Go in peace, and glorify the Lord with your life."

 

Sentinel947

[walk in the woods]

Well, this will get me in trouble but here goes. If your COR has this policy, and you are informing new members of it directly and in advance of joining, then shame on the new leaders who refuse to attend mass. If they are going to balk at the requirement then the honorable thing for them to do would be to find a different unit to join even if that meant driving to a different town. .

 

What would the alternative be for your troop if you didn't mandate attendance? Would your unit leave camp on Saturday night so that the Catholic scouts could attend services in the home parish?

 

BSA membership shouldn't be a driving force of your unit or COR core values. You will and have undoubtedly lost scouts to the policy. So what. The issue for your unit to decide is if mass attendance is a core value. If it is, then keep doing what you are doing. I suspect the folks that balk don't stay in the unit long anyway.

 

[ADCinNC]

From the GTA,

Section 1. Freedom, clause 3.

In no case where a unit is connected with a church or other distinctively religious organization shall members of other denominations or faith be required, because of their membership in the unit, to take part in or observe a religious ceremony distinctly unique to that organization or church.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

[Stosh]

Well, this will get me in trouble but here goes. If your COR has this policy, and you are informing new members of it directly and in advance of joining, then shame on the new leaders who refuse to attend mass. If they are going to balk at the requirement then the honorable thing for them to do would be to find a different unit to join even if that meant driving to a different town. .

 

What would the alternative be for your troop if you didn't mandate attendance? Would your unit leave camp on Saturday night so that the Catholic scouts could attend services in the home parish?

 

BSA membership shouldn't be a driving force of your unit or COR core values. You will and have undoubtedly lost scouts to the policy. So what. The issue for your unit to decide is if mass attendance is a core value. If it is, then keep doing what you are doing. I suspect the folks that balk don't stay in the unit long anyway.

I agree that those that join knowing the expectations, honor the commitment.

 

Stosh

[SMWally]

In an ideal world, we would always be back on Sunday morning in time for everyone to attend their own church, or no church. But that cannot always happen.

 

For our Scouts that do not belong to any church, the thought has always been it is good exposure at least one Sunday (or Saturday evening) a month.

 

For those Scouts that do belong to another denomination, I wish their churches had 1-hour services at 5:00pm Saturday, and 8 / 9:30 / 11 am on Sunday, and we had enough leaders to get them all to their different churches. But neither is the case. And on many occasions we would not have 2-deep leadership for any non-Catholic Scouts who would stay back in camp. So we all go to Mass together.

[Khaliela]

 

For our Scouts that do not belong to any church, the thought has always been it is good exposure at least one Sunday (or Saturday evening) a month.

 

.

 

I find that terribly disrespectful. I too was a member of a Catholic Troop that had the very same requirements; my boys and I are no longer members of that unit. We joined a Methodist Troop that respects our religious differences. There isn't anyone on the planet who hasn't heard the "good news," this means that if someone isn't Christian (or Catholic) it's because they choose not be.

 

Our current SM is Catholic; he also left the Catholic Troop because he didn't like the policy of forcing religion on to others (He had this crazy idea that people were given free will for the purpose of allowing them to exercise it and that included freedom to choose a religious preface.) Bottom line: You may end up running off your catholic membership as well as your non-Catholic membership.

 

[Khaliela]

From the GTA,

Section 1. Freedom, clause 3.

In no case where a unit is connected with a church or other distinctively religious organization shall members of other denominations or faith be required, because of their membership in the unit, to take part in or observe a religious ceremony distinctly unique to that organization or church.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

I don't know anyone who follows that rule; just sayin'.

[acco40]

First of all, the original poster asked if there was such a policy on this topic. He was not asking anyones opinion on the subject. Now, ADCin NC answered the question. It seems very clear cut to me that what the leaders of this unit are doing is in violation of the Charter and Byaws of Article IX.

Article IX. Policies and Definitionsâ€â€From the Charter and Bylaws

 

Section 1. Declaration of Religious Principle, clause 1.The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, “On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law.†The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members. No matter what the religious faith of the members may be, this fundamental need of good citizenship should be kept before them. The Boy Scouts of America, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.

 

Section 1. Activities, clause 2. The activities of the members of the Boy Scouts of America shall be carried on under conditions which show respect to the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion, as required by the twelfth point of the Scout Law, reading, “Reverent. A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.â€Â

 

Section 1. Freedom, clause 3. In no case where a unit is connected with a church or other distinctively religious organization shall members of other denominations or faith be required, because of their membership in the unit, to take part in or observe a religious ceremony distinctly unique to that organization or church.

 

Section 1. Leaders, clause 4. Only persons willing to subscribe to these declarations of principles shall be entitled to certificates of leadership in carrying out the Scouting program.

[King Ding Dong]

From the GTA,

Section 1. Freedom, clause 3.

In no case where a unit is connected with a church or other distinctively religious organization shall members of other denominations or faith be required, because of their membership in the unit, to take part in or observe a religious ceremony distinctly unique to that organization or church.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

If the CO has agreed to follow that rule in the Charter Agreement, it is clear that both parties are not acting honorably.

[King Ding Dong]

In an ideal world, we would always be back on Sunday morning in time for everyone to attend their own church, or no church. But that cannot always happen.

 

For our Scouts that do not belong to any church, the thought has always been it is good exposure at least one Sunday (or Saturday evening) a month.

 

For those Scouts that do belong to another denomination, I wish their churches had 1-hour services at 5:00pm Saturday, and 8 / 9:30 / 11 am on Sunday, and we had enough leaders to get them all to their different churches. But neither is the case. And on many occasions we would not have 2-deep leadership for any non-Catholic Scouts who would stay back in camp. So we all go to Mass together.

I attended Catholic schools, and although it has been a long time, I recall a discussion with the parish priest regarding mass and who was authorized to conduct it. IIRC it did not require an extreme circumstance for a group of lay members to get together and conduct a worship service. In fact he seemed to encourage it. I don't know all the rules, maybe he was a rouge priest.

 

How do you handle backpacking trips ?

[qwazse]

 

For our Scouts that do not belong to any church, the thought has always been it is good exposure at least one Sunday (or Saturday evening) a month.

 

.

 

I find that terribly disrespectful. I too was a member of a Catholic Troop that had the very same requirements; my boys and I are no longer members of that unit. We joined a Methodist Troop that respects our religious differences. There isn't anyone on the planet who hasn't heard the "good news," this means that if someone isn't Christian (or Catholic) it's because they choose not be.

 

Our current SM is Catholic; he also left the Catholic Troop because he didn't like the policy of forcing religion on to others (He had this crazy idea that people were given free will for the purpose of allowing them to exercise it and that included freedom to choose a religious preface.) Bottom line: You may end up running off your catholic membership as well as your non-Catholic membership.

K. I've found a few "unreached" on the planet. Some of them in the pew next to me!

 

Be that as it may, I find coerced invitations counter to the spirit of the gospel. I had a Jewish friend take this issue up with his Catholic CO. They asked him to just drive the boys to mass, and he and any boys who didn't want to attend could wait outside or run errands and come back.

[JoeBob]

"And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be found in all corners of the earth".

 

Then he made the earth round... and he laughed and laughed and laughed!