Dual roles

[Stosh]

For the time being I will be wearing two hats. The search for a new DL is in motion. The ACM made it clear he would not take the role for only six months(his son is a W2), I was plan A, he was plan B, there was no plan C. I informed my Den first, the Pack was notified shortly afterwards. From the feedback I have received so far, this is a welcome change.

 

Now do I buy another shirt, or velco the leader position patches between meetings?

I guess I wouldn't have a problem with the CM coming in and running the den on a temporary basis.

[ScoutNut]

Per BSA you can be REGISTERED as only EITHER Cubmaster (CM) - OR - Den Leader (DL), but NOT BOTH.

 

This means you can REGISTER as CM, but do the jobs of BOTH CM, and DL. Unfortunately, even with a very small Pack such as yours, burnout on your part is a very real possibility if doing both the CM, and DL job.

 

FYI - Your Pack MUST have a registered Cubmaster to be able to re-charter. For den leaders, all that is needed for re-charter, is ONE REGISTERED den leader in the entire Pack.

 

So, the boys in your den are Wolf Cubs?

 

Since you were the Tiger.and Wolf den leader, you should know these parents pretty well by now. Which parents seem the most able to handle the responsibilities of a den leader? Which seem the most committed to SCouting? Which have/had the most fun at meetings?

 

Find the 2 parents in your den who YOU think would make the BEST POSSIBLE den leaders. Then have a face-to-face, heart-to-heart, talk with them, and convince them to take on the den leader positions. Offer as much mentoring/support as you are able to give (be honest, and actually be there for them). If they both refuse, then take a deep breath, and go down the list (YES, you SHOULD have a list) to your next best candidates, and ask them.

 

So on - and so on - down the list of qualified adults, until you have the leadership in your den covered!

 

Good luck!

[Pack18Alex]

Per BSA you can be REGISTERED as only EITHER Cubmaster (CM) - OR - Den Leader (DL), but NOT BOTH.

 

This means you can REGISTER as CM, but do the jobs of BOTH CM, and DL. Unfortunately, even with a very small Pack such as yours, burnout on your part is a very real possibility if doing both the CM, and DL job.

 

FYI - Your Pack MUST have a registered Cubmaster to be able to re-charter. For den leaders, all that is needed for re-charter, is ONE REGISTERED den leader in the entire Pack.

 

So, the boys in your den are Wolf Cubs?

 

Since you were the Tiger.and Wolf den leader, you should know these parents pretty well by now. Which parents seem the most able to handle the responsibilities of a den leader? Which seem the most committed to SCouting? Which have/had the most fun at meetings?

 

Find the 2 parents in your den who YOU think would make the BEST POSSIBLE den leaders. Then have a face-to-face, heart-to-heart, talk with them, and convince them to take on the den leader positions. Offer as much mentoring/support as you are able to give (be honest, and actually be there for them). If they both refuse, then take a deep breath, and go down the list (YES, you SHOULD have a list) to your next best candidates, and ask them.

 

So on - and so on - down the list of qualified adults, until you have the leadership in your den covered!

 

Good luck!

Might be a Council Rule. Last year, we re-chartered with a CM/DL combo, and a CC/TL combo.

 

The only rule in our Council is that CM and COR be distinct people.

[ScoutNut]

Per BSA you can be REGISTERED as only EITHER Cubmaster (CM) - OR - Den Leader (DL), but NOT BOTH.

 

This means you can REGISTER as CM, but do the jobs of BOTH CM, and DL. Unfortunately, even with a very small Pack such as yours, burnout on your part is a very real possibility if doing both the CM, and DL job.

 

FYI - Your Pack MUST have a registered Cubmaster to be able to re-charter. For den leaders, all that is needed for re-charter, is ONE REGISTERED den leader in the entire Pack.

 

So, the boys in your den are Wolf Cubs?

 

Since you were the Tiger.and Wolf den leader, you should know these parents pretty well by now. Which parents seem the most able to handle the responsibilities of a den leader? Which seem the most committed to SCouting? Which have/had the most fun at meetings?

 

Find the 2 parents in your den who YOU think would make the BEST POSSIBLE den leaders. Then have a face-to-face, heart-to-heart, talk with them, and convince them to take on the den leader positions. Offer as much mentoring/support as you are able to give (be honest, and actually be there for them). If they both refuse, then take a deep breath, and go down the list (YES, you SHOULD have a list) to your next best candidates, and ask them.

 

So on - and so on - down the list of qualified adults, until you have the leadership in your den covered!

 

Good luck!

Nope, National rule. Read your adult application :

 

"No one may register in more than one position in the same unit, except the chartered organization representative (CR) (who can multiple only as the committee chairman (CC) or a committee member (MC)), and the parent coordinator (PC), who may multiple as chartered organization representative."

 

Your Pack's Cubmaster (CM) was registered in only that position. Same goes for your Committee Chair (CC). They can both do as many other jobs as they want to, however, they can only be REGISTERED with BSA, in your Pack, as CM, and CC.

[ADCinNC]

Per BSA you can be REGISTERED as only EITHER Cubmaster (CM) - OR - Den Leader (DL), but NOT BOTH.

 

This means you can REGISTER as CM, but do the jobs of BOTH CM, and DL. Unfortunately, even with a very small Pack such as yours, burnout on your part is a very real possibility if doing both the CM, and DL job.

 

FYI - Your Pack MUST have a registered Cubmaster to be able to re-charter. For den leaders, all that is needed for re-charter, is ONE REGISTERED den leader in the entire Pack.

 

So, the boys in your den are Wolf Cubs?

 

Since you were the Tiger.and Wolf den leader, you should know these parents pretty well by now. Which parents seem the most able to handle the responsibilities of a den leader? Which seem the most committed to SCouting? Which have/had the most fun at meetings?

 

Find the 2 parents in your den who YOU think would make the BEST POSSIBLE den leaders. Then have a face-to-face, heart-to-heart, talk with them, and convince them to take on the den leader positions. Offer as much mentoring/support as you are able to give (be honest, and actually be there for them). If they both refuse, then take a deep breath, and go down the list (YES, you SHOULD have a list) to your next best candidates, and ask them.

 

So on - and so on - down the list of qualified adults, until you have the leadership in your den covered!

 

Good luck!

"Might be a Council Rule. Last year, we re-chartered with a CM/DL combo, and a CC/TL combo."

 

Nope, it is a National Rule.

 

From the Adult Application (under Qualification): http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-501.pdf

 

"No one may register in more than one position in the same unit, except the chartered organization representative (CR) (who can multiple only as the committee chairman (CC) or a committee member (MC)), and the parent coordinator (PC), who may multiple as chartered organization representative."

[Pack18Alex]

Per BSA you can be REGISTERED as only EITHER Cubmaster (CM) - OR - Den Leader (DL), but NOT BOTH.

 

This means you can REGISTER as CM, but do the jobs of BOTH CM, and DL. Unfortunately, even with a very small Pack such as yours, burnout on your part is a very real possibility if doing both the CM, and DL job.

 

FYI - Your Pack MUST have a registered Cubmaster to be able to re-charter. For den leaders, all that is needed for re-charter, is ONE REGISTERED den leader in the entire Pack.

 

So, the boys in your den are Wolf Cubs?

 

Since you were the Tiger.and Wolf den leader, you should know these parents pretty well by now. Which parents seem the most able to handle the responsibilities of a den leader? Which seem the most committed to SCouting? Which have/had the most fun at meetings?

 

Find the 2 parents in your den who YOU think would make the BEST POSSIBLE den leaders. Then have a face-to-face, heart-to-heart, talk with them, and convince them to take on the den leader positions. Offer as much mentoring/support as you are able to give (be honest, and actually be there for them). If they both refuse, then take a deep breath, and go down the list (YES, you SHOULD have a list) to your next best candidates, and ask them.

 

So on - and so on - down the list of qualified adults, until you have the leadership in your den covered!

 

Good luck!

My unit roster lists the multiples, and I was specifically told that our COR was allowed to be her son's Den Leader, but Cubmaster should be different and ideally Committee chair as well.

 

Not disagreeing with what you are saying, just pointing out that they let us put that down.

[danbrew]

This is, unfortunately, a common occurrence. Agree completely with those that suggestion you can't effectively do both - it will lead to burnout and the program will suffer. It may have to happen for a short period of time, though. If so, a top priority should be putting together an org chart with a succession plan.

[gsdad]

My first order of buisness to is to nail down the calendar that was left unfinished. The feelers are out for competent and willing replacement as DL.

[JoeBob]

Per BSA you can be REGISTERED as only EITHER Cubmaster (CM) - OR - Den Leader (DL), but NOT BOTH.

 

This means you can REGISTER as CM, but do the jobs of BOTH CM, and DL. Unfortunately, even with a very small Pack such as yours, burnout on your part is a very real possibility if doing both the CM, and DL job.

 

FYI - Your Pack MUST have a registered Cubmaster to be able to re-charter. For den leaders, all that is needed for re-charter, is ONE REGISTERED den leader in the entire Pack.

 

So, the boys in your den are Wolf Cubs?

 

Since you were the Tiger.and Wolf den leader, you should know these parents pretty well by now. Which parents seem the most able to handle the responsibilities of a den leader? Which seem the most committed to SCouting? Which have/had the most fun at meetings?

 

Find the 2 parents in your den who YOU think would make the BEST POSSIBLE den leaders. Then have a face-to-face, heart-to-heart, talk with them, and convince them to take on the den leader positions. Offer as much mentoring/support as you are able to give (be honest, and actually be there for them). If they both refuse, then take a deep breath, and go down the list (YES, you SHOULD have a list) to your next best candidates, and ask them.

 

So on - and so on - down the list of qualified adults, until you have the leadership in your den covered!

 

Good luck!

I planned to stay out of this discussion until I read the usual BSA circular drivel:

 

"No one may register in more than one position in the same unit, except the chartered organization representative (CR) (who can multiple only as the committee chairman (CC) or a committee member (MC)), and the parent coordinator (PC), who may multiple as chartered organization representative."

 

So,

The CR can be CC or MC, but no other role.

And the PC can be CR.

 

Huh? The PC can be CR, unless he is himself, because the CR can't be the PC. Anyone else follow this?

 

Is this just poor punctuation obscuring that it's okay for

the CR can be CC or MC, or PC?.

[jc2008]

I cannot actually think of a Cubmaster in our District that is not also a Den Leader. Most Cubmasters are Den Leaders aren't they ? Or are we just an odd district?

 

My husband goes by the theory of wearing as many hats as you want to until they start to fall off, that is the point where you need to relinquish some jobs/titles.

 

The other thing is, if you look at the Pack structure or "pyramid" of leaders, where you have the COR and CM and CC etc at the top and den leaders at the bottom, you need to invert that pyramid to realize what the most important positions are in a Pack.

 

Your pack will still go even if you have a cubmaster who isn't so great. But your pack will go no where if you have den leaders who are awful. Den leaders are really the most important position in the pack and you should not step back from being a den leader if you don't have a great replacement.

 

[kari_cardi]

I cannot actually think of a Cubmaster in our District that is not also a Den Leader. Most Cubmasters are Den Leaders aren't they ? Or are we just an odd district?

 

My husband goes by the theory of wearing as many hats as you want to until they start to fall off, that is the point where you need to relinquish some jobs/titles.

 

The other thing is, if you look at the Pack structure or "pyramid" of leaders, where you have the COR and CM and CC etc at the top and den leaders at the bottom, you need to invert that pyramid to realize what the most important positions are in a Pack.

 

Your pack will still go even if you have a cubmaster who isn't so great. But your pack will go no where if you have den leaders who are awful. Den leaders are really the most important position in the pack and you should not step back from being a den leader if you don't have a great replacement.

Exactly. Most Cubmasters I know are also Den Leaders, and it is certainly true in our pack. As far as burnout, I blame the relentless Cub schedule and BSA hoop-jumping far more for burn out than wearing two hats in a unit. Your point about having strong Den Leaders is also very valid. We have had retention issues in the dens that do not have strong leaders, it's an ongoing issue no matter who has been in the Cubmaster role.

 

Unit size makes all the difference as well, I suspect. There is a critical point where it is impossible to have a pack without the leaders wearing multiple hats, a different point where more than one hat is difficult to juggle, and a big gray area in the middle.

[ScoutNut]

Per BSA you can be REGISTERED as only EITHER Cubmaster (CM) - OR - Den Leader (DL), but NOT BOTH.

 

This means you can REGISTER as CM, but do the jobs of BOTH CM, and DL. Unfortunately, even with a very small Pack such as yours, burnout on your part is a very real possibility if doing both the CM, and DL job.

 

FYI - Your Pack MUST have a registered Cubmaster to be able to re-charter. For den leaders, all that is needed for re-charter, is ONE REGISTERED den leader in the entire Pack.

 

So, the boys in your den are Wolf Cubs?

 

Since you were the Tiger.and Wolf den leader, you should know these parents pretty well by now. Which parents seem the most able to handle the responsibilities of a den leader? Which seem the most committed to SCouting? Which have/had the most fun at meetings?

 

Find the 2 parents in your den who YOU think would make the BEST POSSIBLE den leaders. Then have a face-to-face, heart-to-heart, talk with them, and convince them to take on the den leader positions. Offer as much mentoring/support as you are able to give (be honest, and actually be there for them). If they both refuse, then take a deep breath, and go down the list (YES, you SHOULD have a list) to your next best candidates, and ask them.

 

So on - and so on - down the list of qualified adults, until you have the leadership in your den covered!

 

Good luck!

Not really "circular", or "drivel".

 

Simply a bad editing job.

 

When BSA first introduced the "Scout Parent", and "Parent Coordinator", nonsense a number of years back they seemed to slap it on the Adult Application at the last minute without a proper proofread. So, instead of simply adding PC as another option for the CR to be able to double as, they added that rather awkward last comment instead.

 

Of course BSA could simply drop the whole silly "Parent Coordinator" title altogether. I don't think that there are that many folks out there that need a separate, "snazzy", registered title, in order to do their job as a Committee Member.

[njdrt-rdr]

While in the fairy tale land of how the BSA says a pack should run, dual roles shouldn't happen. But it is what it is and I was in the same boat as you. CM was leaving. I was a den leader. I liked being the den leader. We couldn't get anyone who would take over as CM. I wound up doing it while still being heavily involved in leading my den. I did get a person to step up to be den leader. But yes between being the CM and the den leader and doing all the stuff that a CC does. I've had enough. We have a small pack and while it's fine and dandy to say your committee should be getting a new leader. It just doesn't always happen. For the sake of wanting the pack to continue you assume multiple roles. Sometimes you assume multiple roles just because you want it done right. I will say that we do have in place a person to take over as CM when I go so it won't be as rough of a transition as when I took over.