Is camping in a cave camping?

[King Ding Dong]

So our troop is planning a cave camping trip. It is apparently at a location the troop has used in years past and has wood bunks. The parents were divided on if this counded as camping nights, some said it was up to the Scoutmaster. I dont recall a ruling from him. Technically it does not seem to count in my opinion. But then a "snow cave" wouldn't count either. "Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent."

[qwazse]

It's the SM's call. The way I would do it:

If there are bunks and mattress set up in an alcove, electric lighting supplied, it wouldn't count.

If the boys are to find there way to a room in the cave where they are supposed to set up their bedding in an appropriate leave-no-trace manner, it would count.

 

Now maybe the bunks were put there to protect the cave floor, in which case I might be inclined to count it.

[Papadaddy]

"Under the sky or in a tent"...seems pretty clear to me...

[Sakitama]

Personally, having camped in caves, I would count it as it provides a somewhat different set of challenges and considerations. How do you stay dry and warm in a cave overnight? What concerns do we have about cooking in the cave and the potential for disturbing other wildlife in the cave (i.e. bats) or the environment (smoke clinging to the roof of the cave)? The point/spirit of camping is to NOT 'camp' in a hotel room and to get outside and enjoy nature

[gsdad]

Compared to the a few of the caves I've slept in, my tent is a hotel. Caves are nature. Why does everything have to count for something? Just chalk it up to an experience.

 

[JoeBob]

May I suggest using common sense?

'Under the Sky' means sleeping outside. Does that mean that you have to blow away the cave roof to qualify?

'In a tent' might be a good idea in some caves to keep the bugs and bats out of your face.

 

If you're sleeping in your bag on your pad without benefit of human supplied HVAC, you're camping.

If BSA allows exception for summer camp provided tents, nature supplied caves are well within the spirit of that.

[blw2]

"Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched' date=' you need not pitch your own tent."[/quote']

 

So then it's not camping if you sleep in a tent pitched by someone else.... or is the part about not needing to pitch your tent part of the rule from whatever it is that you are quoting from?

 

Personally I would think more information is clearly needed to form an opinion.

If the caves are set up like a cabin, then it's more like "cabin camping", eh?

If it's pretty rough, and the bunks are only there for reasons similar to tent platforms at BSA camps, then I might call it camping.

 

If you shelter in a hollow log, is that camping? Well, it aint in a tent, but I would still call it camping. I think one has to use common sense and get their noses out of the book sometimes.

 

[Basementdweller]

So we are still stuck splitting hairs and words to meet the bare minimum requirements for rank advancement.....

 

 

How about you don't worry about it and have the PLC plan an active program....More camping than the resident camp and a spring and fall campout.

[King Ding Dong]

So we are still stuck splitting hairs and words to meet the bare minimum requirements for rank advancement.....

 

 

How about you don't worry about it and have the PLC plan an active program....More camping than the resident camp and a spring and fall campout.

Not helpful.

 

I have already made my opinion clear, the committee is disagreement. Read the post. This is the plan of the PLC. Are you proposing I make the PLC plan a more active program with more camping nights ? Force it on the SM, CC and parents ?

 

They don't want to cold weather camp. The plan calls for 10-12 weekend qualifying camping nights.

 

How was your trip BD ? Glad to have you and your positive attitude back.

[King Ding Dong]

"Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched' date=' you need not pitch your own tent."[/quote']

 

So then it's not camping if you sleep in a tent pitched by someone else.... or is the part about not needing to pitch your tent part of the rule from whatever it is that you are quoting from?

 

Personally I would think more information is clearly needed to form an opinion.

If the caves are set up like a cabin, then it's more like "cabin camping", eh?

If it's pretty rough, and the bunks are only there for reasons similar to tent platforms at BSA camps, then I might call it camping.

 

If you shelter in a hollow log, is that camping? Well, it aint in a tent, but I would still call it camping. I think one has to use common sense and get their noses out of the book sometimes.

Quoting from Camping MB. I think bunks are just wood platforms. I do not know about electricity, cooking arrangements etc.

[Scouter99]

I read "under the stars or in a tent" to mean not in a cabin, barracks, museum, etc. A wilderness shelter is not a "tent," would you argue that nights on a survival weekend weren't camping because the boys slept under a pile of sticks and leaves?

As JoeBob pointed out, unless the cave has electricity etc, and the only improvement are the platforms, then I would count is as camping.

[Basementdweller]

So we are still stuck splitting hairs and words to meet the bare minimum requirements for rank advancement.....

 

 

How about you don't worry about it and have the PLC plan an active program....More camping than the resident camp and a spring and fall campout.

Positive attitude....I am positive your gonna pencil whip and lawyer your scout his way to Eagle.

 

Everytime I see ya post like this I just have to shake my head.

 

Trip was good.... The couples were coupling a little more than I liked......But I was just the second male adult so I knew my place and let the crews AA handle social issues.....

 

PLC puts on the program they want....But an SM can encourage more.....Which I have done, tonight SPL and I are meeting individually with the PL's

 

That's funny.....My PLC decided the January cabin trip was for wimps and they want to camp like real men in tents......Their words not mine.....I just gotta figure out how to do it with out getting one of them killed.....Low income no winter gear to speak of.

[King Ding Dong]

So we are still stuck splitting hairs and words to meet the bare minimum requirements for rank advancement.....

 

 

How about you don't worry about it and have the PLC plan an active program....More camping than the resident camp and a spring and fall campout.

Yes the SM can encourage more which he didn't do or was unsuccessful in doing. Again, I made my position clear I do not think this counts as camping nights as I doubt a commercial cave is going to have no electricity. Not an expert on the issue but I suspect fire codes, risk management and such play a role.

 

So then, what exactly is your problem with asking others opinions on the matter? If you have such a problem with people asking questions, why do you bother responding ?

[packsaddle]

We have done the cave overnight thing in the past. The 'sanitary' issues are troubling enough to the boys and the leaders that we now opt to do the caving thing and then camp outside the cave in tents. Seems to remove all the ambiguity as well as the 'sanitary' concerns. The food is better too.

[King Ding Dong]

We have done the cave overnight thing in the past. The 'sanitary' issues are troubling enough to the boys and the leaders that we now opt to do the caving thing and then camp outside the cave in tents. Seems to remove all the ambiguity as well as the 'sanitary' concerns. The food is better too.

The fact that the sanitary issues did not come up leads me to believe there is indoor plumbing as well, unless you are referring to bat scat.