Patrol Method

[EagleScout441]

In my troop we have 3 patrols of about 5-8 each(it varies on outings), we have patrols that only act as patrols when they are required: cooking, patrol meeting within troop meetings, patrol vs patrol games, etc. When scouts have ideas they usually go right to the SPL, there is a lack of communication between scouts and their patrol leaders(PLs). Also, I know that patrols can do their own activities outside of the troop, i.e. merit badges, but while I've tried to get them to organize stuff like that, they just don't seem to want to. They seem to be satisfied doing the same games and knot relays that we seem to do every single meeting and the once a month campouts. How do I get them active as patrols rather than just as a troop?

Experimenting with the color system.

[fred johnson]

Make the patrols be long lasting patrols and let the scouts pick. Initially, put all the new scouts in a patrol. If they want to switch to be with a friend, fine. But let them pick.

 

People voluntarily get together with friends and people they enjoy. People will not long-term (years) socialize in forced groups.

 

[qwazse]

My troop is similar. You'll find lots of discussion about this on the previous version of this site (http://old.scouter.com/). Here a couple of the items that I've gleaned from it all ...

 

When you go camping, how far apart are the patrols from each other and the adult leaders? In an open field, they should be a football fields distance apart.

Now, sometimes in the tortuous hills where you and I live, that's not that practical. But the idea is that as patrols get used to living with each other at a distance apart (only coming together for assemblies or emergencies), they'll get it into their heads that scheduling stuff on their own isn't that far fetched.

 

The part about not assigning boys to a patrol, but rather having friends choose to be together -- well that's like Fred said. If your patrol-mate is already your friend it's that much easier to pull together with him and do an activity. In fact I'd wager that there's a group of you boys who are already doing something together this weekend, they just aren't doing it with their patrol.

 

Going directly to the SPL is a sign that the PL is not the boy's buddy. It happens. The SPL should tactfully bring it up to the PL. For example, "Joey came to me with an idea that he seemed really enthused about. Did he tell you about it?" If not, say "You or your APL should talk to him and see if it's something ya'll would like to make happen."

 

Finally, patrol leaders should report at the meetings and "talk a little smack" to one another. "Since our last meeting, we Owls accomplished ...", "Well since our last meeting we Crows have decided to propose this troop activity ..." "Well we Ballistic Bluegills are proud to announce that two more boys made tenderfoot ..." The SPL should allow a little time at each troop meeting for a couple of patrol reports.

 

Those are the little things that an SPL and his assistant can do to move toward your objective. Of course he needs the support of his SM for that (and sometimes the SM needs to be really thick skinned and able to back adults away so the boys have that latitude), but it sounds like your SPL would have that in your troop.

[EagleScout441]

"how far apart are the patrols from each other and the adult leaders?" Usually about 15-20 feet between patrols, shared cooking areas most of the time(that gets really annoying, but they don't want to setup another dining fly). The adults are usually about 50 feet away and hardly ever come to our campsite.

"The part about not assigning boys to a patrol, but rather having friends choose to be together"

The current SPL, whose term ends Monday, took all the patrols and assigned them according to attendance. With only 5 guys in a couple patrols, 2 pairs of brothers in the troop, and the fact that our troop lacks good, long-term planning, we frequently have scouts who attend the meetings but don't attend outings. Before we redid the patrols 2 patrols each had a pair of brothers, and if for some reason they couldn't go that left 1 patrol with only 3 people, the patrol redo also split up brothers.

"a sign that the PL is not the boy's buddy"

Exactly, the patrol elections rarely pick the right person for the job, instead they pick the person they like the most. Which is one of the reasons why, if I get elected SPL on Monday, I am going to try to make it where SPL and ASPL nominate PLs and then let patrols vote, rather than patrols nominating and voting.

"Finally, patrol leaders should report at the meetings and "talk a little smack" to one another."

We have PLCs about once every 2 months, really the only thing that gets accomplished is planning what happens in each meeting. Mainly because the PLs can't even tell you what rank the APL is, much less what they are accomplishing.

 

[Stosh]

There's always a problem when rules are dictated down to the patrols. If they are told and they don't like it, they vote with their feet. The SM tells he SPL what to do, the SPL tells the PLs tell the patrols what to do. For me, reverse it. The patrols decide what they what to do and then tell the SPL at the PLC what they have planned. The SPL reports the activities to the SM. Then the SM and SPL mentor, assist, do what it takes to help make it happen. At least the boys are doing what they want. If another patrol catches on to being able to really have some fun, the others will follow. A PL that doesn't work out with his boys will soon get replaced, which in my book can happen any time the patrol decides. There's no such thing as voting every 6 months and then putting up with a mistake. If someone gets elected and doesn't do the work, he's out and someone that wants to make things happen takes over.

 

Yeah, that font thingy is fun.

 

Stosh

[EagleScout441]

"There's no such thing as voting every 6 months and then putting up with a mistake. If someone gets elected and doesn't do the work, he's out and someone that wants to make things happen takes over." You have no idea how much I wish that was true in my troop!

[qwazse]

"how far apart are the patrols from each other and the adult leaders?" Usually about 15-20 feet between patrols, shared cooking areas most of the time(that gets really annoying, but they don't want to setup another dining fly). The adults are usually about 50 feet away and hardly ever come to our campsite.

"The part about not assigning boys to a patrol, but rather having friends choose to be together"

The current SPL, whose term ends Monday, took all the patrols and assigned them according to attendance. With only 5 guys in a couple patrols, 2 pairs of brothers in the troop, and the fact that our troop lacks good, long-term planning, we frequently have scouts who attend the meetings but don't attend outings. Before we redid the patrols 2 patrols each had a pair of brothers, and if for some reason they couldn't go that left 1 patrol with only 3 people, the patrol redo also split up brothers.

"a sign that the PL is not the boy's buddy"

Exactly, the patrol elections rarely pick the right person for the job, instead they pick the person they like the most. Which is one of the reasons why, if I get elected SPL on Monday, I am going to try to make it where SPL and ASPL nominate PLs and then let patrols vote, rather than patrols nominating and voting.

"Finally, patrol leaders should report at the meetings and "talk a little smack" to one another."

We have PLCs about once every 2 months, really the only thing that gets accomplished is planning what happens in each meeting. Mainly because the PLs can't even tell you what rank the APL is, much less what they are accomplishing.

Regardless of who gets elected, you'll be able to help with the discussion among the responsible boys in your troop. You've clearly been putting a lot of thought into this.

 

Definitely try to change your camping arrangements. Your adults are on the right track. Ideally, you put the patrol sites on opposite sides of the adult site with at least a stones throw between sites. Don't worry about that patrol of three. They'll be fine. Some hints: you don't always need a fly. One three-man tent sets up in a hurry. Single burner stove can cook up soup for three easily.

 

The best way to get someone to do what you want is to make them think it was their idea. Your first act as SPL should be to listen. Ask they guys how they like their patrols. What could be better about them.

 

Ideally, the "PL Reports" are part of each meeting. Not the PLC. Lacking any major activity they should be short and sweet. You might want to give them a default phrase "Sir, the Owl patrol has nothing to report tonight, but y'all just wait until next week."

 

Like Stosh said below, most SPLs start out as "top down" managers and quickly learn how to be a "come along-side" leader.

[EagleScout441]

"how far apart are the patrols from each other and the adult leaders?" Usually about 15-20 feet between patrols, shared cooking areas most of the time(that gets really annoying, but they don't want to setup another dining fly). The adults are usually about 50 feet away and hardly ever come to our campsite.

"The part about not assigning boys to a patrol, but rather having friends choose to be together"

The current SPL, whose term ends Monday, took all the patrols and assigned them according to attendance. With only 5 guys in a couple patrols, 2 pairs of brothers in the troop, and the fact that our troop lacks good, long-term planning, we frequently have scouts who attend the meetings but don't attend outings. Before we redid the patrols 2 patrols each had a pair of brothers, and if for some reason they couldn't go that left 1 patrol with only 3 people, the patrol redo also split up brothers.

"a sign that the PL is not the boy's buddy"

Exactly, the patrol elections rarely pick the right person for the job, instead they pick the person they like the most. Which is one of the reasons why, if I get elected SPL on Monday, I am going to try to make it where SPL and ASPL nominate PLs and then let patrols vote, rather than patrols nominating and voting.

"Finally, patrol leaders should report at the meetings and "talk a little smack" to one another."

We have PLCs about once every 2 months, really the only thing that gets accomplished is planning what happens in each meeting. Mainly because the PLs can't even tell you what rank the APL is, much less what they are accomplishing.

"You've clearly been putting a lot of thought into this." Thanks.

"you don't always need a fly." I mentioned the dining fly, on pretty much every campout we setup 2 dining flys, one for the adults, one for the scouts. Sometimes the adults will sleep in the dining fly(we only have one female adult and she doesn't come on all the outings), and sometimes they'll setup tents. Us scouts setup all three patrols' cooking station under that 1 dining fly. The scout cooking areas are almost always together(sometimes a little too close it seems). They prefer having the fly, but they don't want to setup more than 1. So if it rains about 1/2 of the boys will huddle under that one fly while the remaining few will go with their buddies and play cards in their tent.

"One three-man tent sets up in a hurry." We don't have three-man tents, that's one thing about our troop, there're kind of cheap. Two man tents are all we have, to get a picture of how big these tents are the average size ground pad, like that one you get at walmart, if you put two of those in a tent they will not only touch the corners of the tent but also overlap each other about an inch. When the troop got new ones they didn't bother to buy the ones with vestibules, so basically you either lay your gear on your feet or you use it as a pillow. And a few of the old ones. that have vestibules, are covered in patches. That's why I got my own tent, but it started leaking and I've been wanting to buy a hammock anyway, so now I have an excuse to get one, I just have to wait a couple months to get some birthday money so I can afford it. Oh yeah, and the adults' tents are a lot nicer than ours, figures.

" "PL Reports" are part of each meeting. Not the PLC."

If that's the case we do nothing of the sort.

[Stosh]

"There's no such thing as voting every 6 months and then putting up with a mistake. If someone gets elected and doesn't do the work, he's out and someone that wants to make things happen takes over." You have no idea how much I wish that was true in my troop!

I didn't have the POR's wear the patch. One can't see it from a distance anyway so what's the point. Were the boys earning their rank's POR responsibility requirement? Sure, when they got to the BOR they had to be able to justify it to the board. If not, it was their problem. I had one boy "earn" POR requirement under three different PORs in his 6 month time. He was PL of one of the patrols, but researched a new summer camp, organized, registered, and lined up the logistics to go (Scribe). He also lined up all the camp gear necessary and made sure that was all ordered for the week of camp (QM) and then for the week at camp, he served as SPL for the troop because he knew the most about what was going on. A different boy did the same thing for the camporees, Any boy in the troop could take on any activity for leadership (POR) credit. One boy took on popcorn sales. A new scout on his third meeting, volunteered on organizing a service project at a local park. Another boy (Instructor) mentored him through the details.

 

Basically each boy journaled his POR involvement and had it as a record for his BOR "brag-time".

 

My boys had two options when it came to BOR's. Either they sat there and waited for the Board to ask them questions with which they had their notes handy to supply answers, or 2) come in, introduce oneself and make a 15-20 minute report on what you have done to earn the rank. I had one boy do this for his Eagle BOR and the panel only asked him 4 questions and then had to interrupt him in his reply to go on to the next question. At first I thought they were kind of upset with him, but the next day they invited him to be the speaker at the Golden Eagle Banquet that year

[EagleScout441]

"There's no such thing as voting every 6 months and then putting up with a mistake. If someone gets elected and doesn't do the work, he's out and someone that wants to make things happen takes over." You have no idea how much I wish that was true in my troop!

He did take the invitation didn't he?

[Stosh]

"There's no such thing as voting every 6 months and then putting up with a mistake. If someone gets elected and doesn't do the work, he's out and someone that wants to make things happen takes over." You have no idea how much I wish that was true in my troop!

We had to sedate him, but he did fine!

[EagleScout441]

I lost the election for SPL and didn't get ASPL either. The new SPL is more "popular" than I am but, from what I've seen, doesn't have the leadership ability and dedication required to be SPL, he is also 1 1/2 years younger than I am, which is just insulting. The new ASPL is a 17 year old Star Scout who joined the troop about 5 years ago, but last night was the first meeting he has showed up to since January 2012, and they still elected him over me. So now I'm going to focus on finishing all my partially complete merit badges and then join Venturing.

[Khaliela]

I lost the election for SPL and didn't get ASPL either. The new SPL is more "popular" than I am but, from what I've seen, doesn't have the leadership ability and dedication required to be SPL, he is also 1 1/2 years younger than I am, which is just insulting. The new ASPL is a 17 year old Star Scout who joined the troop about 5 years ago, but last night was the first meeting he has showed up to since January 2012, and they still elected him over me. So now I'm going to focus on finishing all my partially complete merit badges and then join Venturing.

In any race there will be losers and sometimes the losers may have been more qualified for the job. Want an example? Look at our own election system and who we have for political leaders; some of them serve their country quit well, others are complete buffoons. In the grand scheme of things not having a leadership position right now will not harm your career in Scouting; you may even benefit from this experience.

 

My son was not elected to OA the first year he was eligible; but he didn't quit camping and give up. He was elected to troop leadership positions 3 elections in a row, but this June when he ran for SPL someone else won (and just like your situation it was because the other person was more popular.) Rather than be upset he congratulated the winner and used the extra time he just gained to finish his Eagle Project. He is still able to show his leadership abilities (and good nature) by cheerfully filling in for the SPL when he can't make it to meetings because of family commitments.

 

Winning is an attitude, not a tally on a score board. No one can truly be a good leader until they've given their all and lost. Leaders make decisions, good leaders take responsibility for their outcomes. You may have lost the election, but ask your self what did you win in the process?

[EagleScout441]

I lost the election for SPL and didn't get ASPL either. The new SPL is more "popular" than I am but, from what I've seen, doesn't have the leadership ability and dedication required to be SPL, he is also 1 1/2 years younger than I am, which is just insulting. The new ASPL is a 17 year old Star Scout who joined the troop about 5 years ago, but last night was the first meeting he has showed up to since January 2012, and they still elected him over me. So now I'm going to focus on finishing all my partially complete merit badges and then join Venturing.

The deal is I'm the most qualified person in my troop to serve as SPL or ASPL[highest rank(obviously) and most experience], this election was the determining factor for how much longer I'm going to stay in the troop before leaving to Venturing. I kind of wanted to have 1 term before leaving. This is the 5th time that I have been nominated for these positions, the only time I got to serve in either of these positions was as SPL during 1 week of summer camp.

"My son was not elected to OA the first year he was eligible"

Neither was I.

"No one can truly be a good leader until they've given their all and lost."

I've done that 5 times, literally. This time I even prepared a 6 minute speech.

[Eagledad]

I lost the election for SPL and didn't get ASPL either. The new SPL is more "popular" than I am but, from what I've seen, doesn't have the leadership ability and dedication required to be SPL, he is also 1 1/2 years younger than I am, which is just insulting. The new ASPL is a 17 year old Star Scout who joined the troop about 5 years ago, but last night was the first meeting he has showed up to since January 2012, and they still elected him over me. So now I'm going to focus on finishing all my partially complete merit badges and then join Venturing.

Khaliela is right, a trusted loyal person doesn't quit when The chips are down. If the election was a popularity thing, then the troop needs you more than ever. You need to show true unselfish servant leadership and be the SPLs most trusted assistant. Those scouts stick out. Good post Khaliela