so if you were COR would you fold the pack or keep struggling along

[TSS_Chris]

I'd take a multiple-pronged approach to this problem.

 

First, I'd get started with the DL parent who you say is calling others. It sounds like he is a natural leader. Will he step up to become CM? For your description, he's got as least 2 years left, so he could at least give the pack some continuity during his term. If he's taking the initiative to call others, he's probably already got a good idea of who is committed, and could get them to step up and take on a leadership position.

 

Second, I'd call your DE. Loss of a unit will reflect badly on your numbers. He should be working with the Commissioner staff to find this unit a Commissioner who can work with you to help build the leadership team, and possibly build some sustainable systems. I don't know if this is a National program or not, but it seems to me that loss of a unit would be grounds for termination for a DE in my Council. Perhaps there is a way to move your unit to another CO that has members who would be willing to support a Scout unit?

 

Finally, if this Pack is a feeder for your Troop, you should be bringing this up at the Troop Committee meetings to see if there are any committee members who are willing to help get the Pack back on track. (I've been reading "Scouting for Boys" this summer. B-P's vision was to have one committee to support all boys in the same unit. With the problem of constant parent turnover in a Pack, this sounds like a really good idea to me.) This would be especially true if the troop shares a CO with the Pack.

 

If you can't get support from at least two of these groups, or unless you're willing to fall on this sword and take over the unit, I'd let the unit fold.

 

You should talk to your DE about what to do with the funds the unit currently has in their account. I believe when a unit folds these are supposed to transfer to the CO. This is especially true if the CO has put up seed money or made contributions to sustain the unit.

The UC or DE needs to talk more with the prospective COs about their responsibilities. If an organization agrees to be a CO, they can't charge a unit rent. They are obligated to provide the unit a meeting space, among other things.

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/Relationships/TrainingtheCOR/03.aspx

[Basementdweller]

I'm IH.

We are the Parents of chartered org. As soon as a new scout joins, their parent becomes a voting member.

So I can call a parent meeting now, to vote to continue or fold.

or I can call a parent meeting after a trial of recruiting to vote.

Which would you want to do?

 

Most likely I'll call a parent meeting to discuss and plan recruiting. If nobody shows up that will be great fun.

 

call an attorney????

 

I would call a family meeting and give everyone 2 minutes to speak their mind....Then vote.

 

If you write checks for the isa money, don't write them to the parents but to the unit they are going too....

[TSS_Chris]

I'm IH.

We are the Parents of chartered org. As soon as a new scout joins, their parent becomes a voting member.

So I can call a parent meeting now, to vote to continue or fold.

or I can call a parent meeting after a trial of recruiting to vote.

Which would you want to do?

 

Most likely I'll call a parent meeting to discuss and plan recruiting. If nobody shows up that will be great fun.

 

@BD: Yes. Call an attorney.

 

From the OP's description, his CO is most likely "The Parents of Pack 123, Anytown USA, Inc." So he's not just disbanding a unit. He's ceasing the operations of a nonprofit corporation. That requires a resolution of the board. There are definitely some i's that need to be dotted here.

[BadenP]

The Pack is self-chartered by the parents of the Scouts.

 

If there are no Scouts, and the parents you do have no longer care, why should you?

 

yeah I'm trying to figure out if I care ENOUGH to do this again.

 

My boys are off to the troop, they are 13 and 17 now. I don't need a pack.

Existing boys except 1 have never been in a large pack. closest other packs are 50-80 scouts. There is benefit in a bit smaller pack being available for some scouts. IF we kept all 7 and got the new 5 who are interested in joining, we'd have 3 in each den with 4 in webelos.

 

So.

1. We could fold now and not recruit in August. That is super duper negative thinking and is just giving up. I hate to just give up after putting in so much time to the pack, buying camping gear, building up a small bank balance, and such.

2. I could do recruiting in August with help of my troop friends and then if we don't get enough bodies to do all the jobs, and then send everyone on their merry way. This is at least "do my best" kind of thinking and then if it doesn't work at least we tried.

or 3. I could do recruiting in August with help of my troop friends, might keep a few people who didn't answer the negative den leader guy who tried to call everyone, and find there are enough new people to make it a go. We went from 3 in July2005 to 16 in Sept 2005, and then double the next year and then staying at around 8-9 in each of 5 dens every year after that tile I left. so I know it is possible.

But is it naive to be that positive thinking? Do I really want to try that hard? Would you try that hard?

 

Which one would you do?

5 year, If I am not mistaken National passed a charter rule 2 years back stating parent groups were no longer allowed to be a CO because of all the legal hassles councils had to deal with when unit fights broke out and distribution of assets of the unit. In my own council and the three adjoining ones it has been mandated by the council via National that All Friends of troop xyz type of units had to secure a new CO via churches ,civil clubs, etc. by recharter time 2011 or the unit would not be registered. We were told this is Nationals new policy, and ten of these parent units disappeared in our council the rest chartered with American Legion, Kiwanis, etc.

[dedkad]

If you decide to fold, I think you should spend all of the remaining money you have on a really cool outing for the boys as a group instead of sending them each off with their own money.

[TonyHooker]

In this scenario, I would probably vote to fold.

[frankpalazzi]

Leader turnover is a sad fact of life in Troops and Packs, and sometimes it can happen faster than we like. I can certainly appreciate your respect for the heritage of a 25-year old unit, and your desire to keep it going! Good for you! Some would shun the idea of heritage and label traditions as "tacky," etc. I would have that parent meeting before your recruitment and present the following as an option: Keep after your DE to find another CO in or near your town. Try American Legion/VFW/Other Veterans' organizations (They LOVE Scouts!). Volunteer Fire Departments, ALL civic organizations, yes, even the Garden Club. Even if they are unable to provide a meeting space, maybe they can help arrange one at another location in exchange for a little service time from the Pack (tidying up the grounds, etc.) and perhaps an annual donation to help with the heating/lighting costs. (Never, ever "pay rent"!) My American Legion sponsored Pack has a similar arrangement with a local church hall due to space limitations in the Legion building. BUT...leave it to your DE to approach these folks--he/she is trained in pitching new potential COs! If he/she secures a new CO for you, it's just a matter of transition from that point forward. You can keep the same pack number, your funds and equipment and leadership if the new CO chooses. (And why wouldn't they? It's a lot less work for them with everything in place already!) You'll be off the hook as IH/COR, and know you've done a "job well done" leaving a heritage Pack in good shape. I think deep down, you want to save this pack, and I'm certain your DE does too!

 

From what I understand, your recharter happens in December, so the clock is ticking, but it's entirely possible to do this!

 

Just my $.03 (I rambled too long for just $.02)

 

-Frank

[5yearscouter]

Leader turnover is a sad fact of life in Troops and Packs, and sometimes it can happen faster than we like. I can certainly appreciate your respect for the heritage of a 25-year old unit, and your desire to keep it going! Good for you! Some would shun the idea of heritage and label traditions as "tacky," etc. I would have that parent meeting before your recruitment and present the following as an option: Keep after your DE to find another CO in or near your town. Try American Legion/VFW/Other Veterans' organizations (They LOVE Scouts!). Volunteer Fire Departments, ALL civic organizations, yes, even the Garden Club. Even if they are unable to provide a meeting space, maybe they can help arrange one at another location in exchange for a little service time from the Pack (tidying up the grounds, etc.) and perhaps an annual donation to help with the heating/lighting costs. (Never, ever "pay rent"!) My American Legion sponsored Pack has a similar arrangement with a local church hall due to space limitations in the Legion building. BUT...leave it to your DE to approach these folks--he/she is trained in pitching new potential COs! If he/she secures a new CO for you, it's just a matter of transition from that point forward. You can keep the same pack number, your funds and equipment and leadership if the new CO chooses. (And why wouldn't they? It's a lot less work for them with everything in place already!) You'll be off the hook as IH/COR, and know you've done a "job well done" leaving a heritage Pack in good shape. I think deep down, you want to save this pack, and I'm certain your DE does too!

 

From what I understand, your recharter happens in December, so the clock is ticking, but it's entirely possible to do this!

 

Just my $.03 (I rambled too long for just $.02)

 

-Frank

We live in the big city of phoenix, but are the only non-LDS unit within a huge chunk of city. We cover 13 schools for actual recruiting, and get kids from dozens of other schools. There are 3 extra large packs out further west of our area, which is the only other option for non-LDS youth in our area.

 

In 25 years of being here, and since I've been here for over 8 years, we've talked to Co options but they are really next to nil. Our primarily land area we recruit from has no veteran's groups, vfws, american legions, 2 churches that we have already talked to and the Kiwanis. There are businesses like grocery stores, gas stations, savers/goodwill, tire store, walgreens, cvs,. There is a Bechtel office across the street from the school we meet at, but the DE just laughed at me when I suggested that as a possible CO.

 

We do have meeting places--we can use literally any of the 13 schools we recruit from, for free any night of the week, weekends we have to pay for custodians to show up so we don't do that. We do have a fire station community room we can use for meetings free as well, but again, not on weekends. So weekend mtgs are at a leader's house or the park.

 

My oldest is working on his Eagle project at the school this week (gets us on good graces with their new principal),

school starts next week.

And then I'll be contacting all parents for a parent meeting and a discussion of recruiting.

 

I think we need to take the middle of the road tack--recruiting--but act like recruiting to make a whole new pack--with all new leadership. If it takes off, I'll do all training and get em started and they'll have to spread their wings to fly.

If it doesn't take off, we'll discuss what to do next.

 

It should be easier than this, but I know sometimes it just isn't.

[frankpalazzi]

Leader turnover is a sad fact of life in Troops and Packs, and sometimes it can happen faster than we like. I can certainly appreciate your respect for the heritage of a 25-year old unit, and your desire to keep it going! Good for you! Some would shun the idea of heritage and label traditions as "tacky," etc. I would have that parent meeting before your recruitment and present the following as an option: Keep after your DE to find another CO in or near your town. Try American Legion/VFW/Other Veterans' organizations (They LOVE Scouts!). Volunteer Fire Departments, ALL civic organizations, yes, even the Garden Club. Even if they are unable to provide a meeting space, maybe they can help arrange one at another location in exchange for a little service time from the Pack (tidying up the grounds, etc.) and perhaps an annual donation to help with the heating/lighting costs. (Never, ever "pay rent"!) My American Legion sponsored Pack has a similar arrangement with a local church hall due to space limitations in the Legion building. BUT...leave it to your DE to approach these folks--he/she is trained in pitching new potential COs! If he/she secures a new CO for you, it's just a matter of transition from that point forward. You can keep the same pack number, your funds and equipment and leadership if the new CO chooses. (And why wouldn't they? It's a lot less work for them with everything in place already!) You'll be off the hook as IH/COR, and know you've done a "job well done" leaving a heritage Pack in good shape. I think deep down, you want to save this pack, and I'm certain your DE does too!

 

From what I understand, your recharter happens in December, so the clock is ticking, but it's entirely possible to do this!

 

Just my $.03 (I rambled too long for just $.02)

 

-Frank

Please let us know what happens!

[5yearscouter]

Leader turnover is a sad fact of life in Troops and Packs, and sometimes it can happen faster than we like. I can certainly appreciate your respect for the heritage of a 25-year old unit, and your desire to keep it going! Good for you! Some would shun the idea of heritage and label traditions as "tacky," etc. I would have that parent meeting before your recruitment and present the following as an option: Keep after your DE to find another CO in or near your town. Try American Legion/VFW/Other Veterans' organizations (They LOVE Scouts!). Volunteer Fire Departments, ALL civic organizations, yes, even the Garden Club. Even if they are unable to provide a meeting space, maybe they can help arrange one at another location in exchange for a little service time from the Pack (tidying up the grounds, etc.) and perhaps an annual donation to help with the heating/lighting costs. (Never, ever "pay rent"!) My American Legion sponsored Pack has a similar arrangement with a local church hall due to space limitations in the Legion building. BUT...leave it to your DE to approach these folks--he/she is trained in pitching new potential COs! If he/she secures a new CO for you, it's just a matter of transition from that point forward. You can keep the same pack number, your funds and equipment and leadership if the new CO chooses. (And why wouldn't they? It's a lot less work for them with everything in place already!) You'll be off the hook as IH/COR, and know you've done a "job well done" leaving a heritage Pack in good shape. I think deep down, you want to save this pack, and I'm certain your DE does too!

 

From what I understand, your recharter happens in December, so the clock is ticking, but it's entirely possible to do this!

 

Just my $.03 (I rambled too long for just $.02)

 

-Frank

If anyone else has suggestions I'll take em.

Tomorrow night is school open house, but I don't have the bodies to cover all 13 schools. If the parents agree we'll send home flyers for a scout open house/roundup sometime before the end of the month. School start Monday.

[Bookemdano]

Leader turnover is a sad fact of life in Troops and Packs, and sometimes it can happen faster than we like. I can certainly appreciate your respect for the heritage of a 25-year old unit, and your desire to keep it going! Good for you! Some would shun the idea of heritage and label traditions as "tacky," etc. I would have that parent meeting before your recruitment and present the following as an option: Keep after your DE to find another CO in or near your town. Try American Legion/VFW/Other Veterans' organizations (They LOVE Scouts!). Volunteer Fire Departments, ALL civic organizations, yes, even the Garden Club. Even if they are unable to provide a meeting space, maybe they can help arrange one at another location in exchange for a little service time from the Pack (tidying up the grounds, etc.) and perhaps an annual donation to help with the heating/lighting costs. (Never, ever "pay rent"!) My American Legion sponsored Pack has a similar arrangement with a local church hall due to space limitations in the Legion building. BUT...leave it to your DE to approach these folks--he/she is trained in pitching new potential COs! If he/she secures a new CO for you, it's just a matter of transition from that point forward. You can keep the same pack number, your funds and equipment and leadership if the new CO chooses. (And why wouldn't they? It's a lot less work for them with everything in place already!) You'll be off the hook as IH/COR, and know you've done a "job well done" leaving a heritage Pack in good shape. I think deep down, you want to save this pack, and I'm certain your DE does too!

 

From what I understand, your recharter happens in December, so the clock is ticking, but it's entirely possible to do this!

 

Just my $.03 (I rambled too long for just $.02)

 

-Frank

Could always advertise in local newspapers and see what happens.

[jc2008]

A bit late, but my 2 cents.

 

I would start to think about what is most beneficial to the kids. That should drive every decision you make. Having constant leadership turnover and no strong backbone of leadership to build on would mean to me its time to move the kids into the larger packs in the area. You don't want people to quit scouts because of the constant upheaval or there not being things to do because no one is planning them. Or adults to quit and take their kids out of scouting because the pressure/atmosphere is too much for them.

 

Even in a larger pack the kids should be able to maintain their current dens, just do pack things together with the larger group.

 

I would start a dialogue with the leadership of a close by pack and let them know your situation and see what your options are to merge with them if needed later on this year. Maybe you will get lucky in your recruitment and pick up some enthusiastic parents though, you never know.

[5yearscouter]

So...it's been a while since I wrote the Original Post.

To follow up.

 

Sent hom 3000 flyers from the 13 schools we can recruit from. yes, that's a lot of flyers, a lot of schools and a lot of potential scouts.

 

 

Recruting nite I went in to it with NO EXISTING SCOUTS. Some are sort of interested,but wanted to see what happened with recruiting before deciding.

 

 

Brought two boy scouts as a bit of help to play games. 8 years of cub scouting displays and photos, leader books, sample uniforms, yadda yadda yadda.

Had received txts, emails, and phone calls from about 20 people.

 

4 scouts showed up. 2 tigers, 1 bear and a webelos 5th grader.

 

We talked about the minimum of 5 registered scouts and 5 registered adults.

 

we talked about options, things we could do, joining another pack, recruiting.

everyone went home with the idea to come the next week and bring a friend.

 

 

So tonight we tried again--a den mtg to play games with boys scouts, do Bobcat stuff, and talk to parents.

and we got 4 tigers, 1 wolf, 1 bear, 1 4th grade webelo and 1 5th grade webelo.

 

They decided that yes, they want to have a pack and keep it going.

Everyone went home with directions to do online training at myscouting.org

and come back prepared for adult leader training night next wednesday nite--we are going to try to make out a calendar for pack mtgs and events, and figure out which items can all be done together as a group, etc.

and for everyone to bring a friend.

 

right now we look pretty much like the local LDS packs in size and with only 1 or 3 in each grade. Whether that's good, bad or just different I'm not sure.

 

Sigh.

 

 

 

[TSS_Chris]

So...it's been a while since I wrote the Original Post.

To follow up.

 

Sent hom 3000 flyers from the 13 schools we can recruit from. yes, that's a lot of flyers, a lot of schools and a lot of potential scouts.

 

 

Recruting nite I went in to it with NO EXISTING SCOUTS. Some are sort of interested,but wanted to see what happened with recruiting before deciding.

 

 

Brought two boy scouts as a bit of help to play games. 8 years of cub scouting displays and photos, leader books, sample uniforms, yadda yadda yadda.

Had received txts, emails, and phone calls from about 20 people.

 

4 scouts showed up. 2 tigers, 1 bear and a webelos 5th grader.

 

We talked about the minimum of 5 registered scouts and 5 registered adults.

 

we talked about options, things we could do, joining another pack, recruiting.

everyone went home with the idea to come the next week and bring a friend.

 

 

So tonight we tried again--a den mtg to play games with boys scouts, do Bobcat stuff, and talk to parents.

and we got 4 tigers, 1 wolf, 1 bear, 1 4th grade webelo and 1 5th grade webelo.

 

They decided that yes, they want to have a pack and keep it going.

Everyone went home with directions to do online training at myscouting.org

and come back prepared for adult leader training night next wednesday nite--we are going to try to make out a calendar for pack mtgs and events, and figure out which items can all be done together as a group, etc.

and for everyone to bring a friend.

 

right now we look pretty much like the local LDS packs in size and with only 1 or 3 in each grade. Whether that's good, bad or just different I'm not sure.

 

Sigh.

 

 

Don't sigh. 8 Scouts where all the parents are involved is much better than a pack of 60 with only one or two involved parents.

 

Work on building your program. Make it fun. Make sure you've got plenty of "bring a friend" activities on the calendar. If the boys get excited, their friends will want to join in.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither is a good Pack.