Is the BSA required trainings/forms turning off/loosing people

[TSS_Chris]

I'll agree that the BSA training is off-putting to some. Would we have more leaders without it? Sure, but as the BSA we've already found out what happens when you don't ask enough questions.

 

I recently joined a unit chartered to the local Catholic Church. I was already a Scouter, but still had to take the Church's training. It is required all ALL[\i] volunteers and employees who work with youth in the Church. The training consisted of:

• A three-hour in-person lecture series
  
• A signed pledge to keep all Church youth safe
  
• A state police ($20) and FBI ($10) background check that I had to pay for and submit with my volunteer application
  

I took the 3-hour course on a snowy night last winter. There were over 100 people in the room for the course. The archdiocese offered the course once a week throughout their area. It was offered in my county every month. So even with that onerous requirement, there was no shortage of people taking this course.

 

Personally, I think that the BSA is just selling the training the wrong way. As a parent, I'm glad to have taken YPT. I think if the MyScouting system were more user-friendly (I've had several cases with my until leaders where it has taken weeks for a MyScouting account to activate. One required me to call the National Helpdesk to get things straightened out.)

 

My council currently doesn't allow a unit to recharter unless all unit leaders have taken the full compliment of online training courses. That always creates problems for me at recharter time. This year, by the time I got all the new leaders up-to-date, one of my existing leaders had their YPT expire before we could get the paperwork to take.

 

I went to a recruiting session this weekend, and the Council was promoting that during member drives, we should be telling the adults to fill out an Adult Application at the same time that they fill out their son's Youth Application. The Parent's Guide they've prepared tells them that they should be taking YPT and giving the certification to the unit leader.

[Khaliela]

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders, but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.

Where the heck are you coming up with 2 or 3 to 1???? In Cub Scouts possibly because cub have to have a parent with them.

 

Why shouldn't we allow parents to come to events? If we excluded them they may never see their kids. Just look at a typical week for a 13 year old during the school year.

 

6:30 AM Weight Room Opens for Jocks Lifting

7:30 AM Study Hall opens for Jocks Study Hall

8:10 AM School starts

3:10 PM School Dismissed

3:15 PM to 6 PM After school events (Music, Sports, Drama, etc.)

7:00 PM to 8:30 PM Scouts/4-H/Private Lessons/(Youth Group for Christians), etc depending on the night

9:00 PM to 10:00 PM Homework

 

Then you add weekends:

1 Weekend a month for 4-H/Youth Group/any other event

1 Weekend a month for Scouts events

1 weekend a month for Sporting events

1 weekend a month to keep your sanity

 

Many families have multiple kids all running in different directions causing even more chaos in the schedule.

Makes absolutely no sense to be running parents off by expecting them to have several hours of training (Think safe swim; safety afloat; hazardous weather, etc) just because they want to spend time with their kid.

[Khaliela]

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders' date=' but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.[/quote']

 

Less than 2 hours, actually. Anyone that says they don't have 1.5 hours for 3 training modules is either the President of the US or a liar, anyone that won't didn't want to go in the first place.

Are you kidding; 1.5 hours for training??? I live in a rural area we do not have high-speed internet; last time I took youth protection it took 2.5 hours, then timed out. I tried again the next day and was able to complete in a mere 3 hours that day. We've had some leaders that have spent several hours a night for a period of weeks trying to get youth protection.

[qwazse]

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders' date=' but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.[/quote']

 

Less than 2 hours, actually. Anyone that says they don't have 1.5 hours for 3 training modules is either the President of the US or a liar, anyone that won't didn't want to go in the first place.

K, you have out-of-touch Christians in your hills. I have out-of-touch internet snobs in mine!

 

Answer "no." File the plan anyway by having the SPL write a hand-rwitten description of the the outing (sufficiently detailed), collect SM and CC signatures, and drop it in the mail to your council HQ. Their problem. Not ours.

 

Adults take up the rear on most of our hikes, I'll have them trained on anything relevant to our needs by mile four.

[Scouter99]

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders' date=' but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.[/quote']

 

Less than 2 hours, actually. Anyone that says they don't have 1.5 hours for 3 training modules is either the President of the US or a liar, anyone that won't didn't want to go in the first place.

No, I'm not kidding. Each module takes ~30 minutes. If the internet isn't up to par in your neck of the woods, try doing it at the library or better yet borrow the videos from your service center. (Or I may be showing my snobbery again by assuming that your council has them available for loan like mine). Units are encouraged to offer the YPT training in-house once a year, anyway.

Internet is a cherry on top of a system that just a few years ago meant driving halfway across the county (if you were lucky) or state (if not) to get these training modules.

I guess it can be relative, but I'm sorry, the training sob story gets no traction with me; it's too easy to get (in fact, I did Safety Afloat in the 30 minutes before my original post just for giggles).

[Khaliela]

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders' date=' but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.[/quote']

 

Less than 2 hours, actually. Anyone that says they don't have 1.5 hours for 3 training modules is either the President of the US or a liar, anyone that won't didn't want to go in the first place.

The Library and City Hall both have dial-up.

The Council Service Center is 99.8 miles away.

What part of RURAL didn't you understand?

[Scouter99]

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders' date=' but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.[/quote']

 

Less than 2 hours, actually. Anyone that says they don't have 1.5 hours for 3 training modules is either the President of the US or a liar, anyone that won't didn't want to go in the first place.

The part where I lived in a rural area for 2 years and the library had cable. Does the mail run in your rural area? Maybe the service center could mail things to you. The rural area where I lived had mail service, so if yours doesn't I may not understand that part of rural, either.

[King Ding Dong]

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders' date=' but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.[/quote']

 

Less than 2 hours, actually. Anyone that says they don't have 1.5 hours for 3 training modules is either the President of the US or a liar, anyone that won't didn't want to go in the first place.

Wow. That is seriously rural. Do the Police and Fire Dept. have dial up also? Has your community looked at satellite ?

 

I can't believe you can even use this forum with dial up. It is slow.

[dlearyous]

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders, but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.

I come up with ratio from experience. Troops that don't turn away parents end up with that many Scouts to parents ratio. It is ridiculous. Adults are there to supervise the Scouts not to have parent/son time, that is what BSA Family Camping is for and home life. Any kid that has a schedule like you described needs to learn to say no and schedule in some down time.

[Khaliela]

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders' date=' but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.[/quote']

 

Less than 2 hours, actually. Anyone that says they don't have 1.5 hours for 3 training modules is either the President of the US or a liar, anyone that won't didn't want to go in the first place.

KDD--Our community does not have Police or Fire. (Population is 738 people, so there isn't a tax base to support those services.) The Sheriffs office responds out of the County seat (45 min response time) and if you have a fire you'd better call the forest service because they will respond if it's brush/grass/trees; otherwise you'd better have insurance.

 

I work 75 miles from home--we have better internet here. (Unfortunately it's in the opposite direction from the Council Service Center The council covers are area that is 350 miles long by 420 miles wide.) I check the forums when I'm stuck on hold on the phone and can't start another task. I don't have internet at home; seems like a waste of money.

 

Just remember that this is large and very diverse country. In some areas you drive 60 miles and find yourself in another state; around here you drive 60 miles just to get your groceries.

 

SCOUTER99; Post office is only open from 10 AM to 2 PM Monday thru Friday; no Saturday service. If you need something shipped it needs to come FedEx or UPS, otherwise you won't get it unless you arrange to take day off work. Council does mail things, but won't pay for FedEx. It took 3 weeks for me to arrange a day off to pick up my packet for Wood Badge because they sent it in a packet that was too big to fit in the mail box.

[Horizon]

Training IF you have decent net access is pretty simple. I give a special t-shirt to any parent who does 4 training courses (Intro to Scouting, Serving on the Committee, Youth Protection and Weather). Those 4 are the required ones to be an adult on a campout as well - no parents allowed, just trained volunteers. Now IOLs could always use a tweak or two, and personally I didn't learn anything (instead I helped teach the class).

 

We offer CPR at the Troop once per year (It took one phone call to set it up).

 

Paperwork, however, is different.

 

Medical: We have solved the medical form issue by having everyone file a new set every year. We keep a set scanned, and a hard copy binder as well. That binder goes on every campout, and makes it easy for us to submit the documentation for summer camp. Parents are regularly reminded to take the forms to their doctor and keep them updated annually. So that one was solved thanks to a parent on medical form duty.

 

Auto: When parents join the Troop, we get them to submit all of their auto details. It goes into a spreadsheet, and that spreadsheet is used for the creation of tour permits. Same issue - we have the parents check their information annually.

 

Tour Permits. Those things are poorly built, and could use a revamping by a combination of risk specialists who are ALSO Scouters. It should be online, and easy to copy and paste from the spreadsheets that we keep. Luckily I have a parent who "owns" tour permits for me.

 

Now the adult applications should be online like AYSO, with the requirement for an annual update. They should also be used for multiple positions - making cross checking much more efficient and effective.

 

I do think that some "off of the books" trips happen because an opportunity comes up and the paperwork/process gets in the way. I am pretty sure I have had more than one hike and campout where the permit was sent in, but never received back. But that is also due to issues with reduced staffing and the use of volunteers checking data. Again, an online system would solve a lot of that as well.

[BartHumphries]

Bring a laptop to a meeting with internet access. While the boys go off and do whatever it is that they're going to be doing anyway, have the parents spend the hour running through Youth Protection, This is Scouting, Fast Start: whatever. Offer cookies and other refreshments in between each internet class because adults who have to sit there doing that internet stuff for too long get cranky (seriously). Hey presto, they're done and they can go on every campout, etc.

 

Then you all walk outside to the parking lot. Don't surprise anyone, in case they changed providers recently and don't have the form (or don't have insurance, but don't bring that up), and everyone goes to their glove compartment, grabs their insurance form, and brings it over. It'll have the make/model/year of the car and CA minimum is 15k for injury/death to one person, 30k for injury/death to more than one person, 5k for property damage. That's all you fill out on your trip form. If there is an accident and it turns out that they have more insurance than you wrote down, great for them and everyone else but it's really not important.

 

Then you go back inside, the boys will be finishing up with whatever they were finishing up with, and you let the boys partake of whatever is left over from the refreshments after the internet session. And you hopefully won't have any problems with any future tour permits.

 

If any adults want to earn the "trained" patch, then next week they can do the troop committee challenge on the same laptop, and they're done. Anyone who wants to be an Assistant Scoutmaster just needs to take a couple weekends, and the District has them on its calendar at, yadda, yadda. Make sure that everyone who's trained wears their trained patch. Unfortunately, there is no trained patch for the people outside the troop that troop members are most likely to see regularly (unit commissioners and district committee people running friends of scouting drives and summer camp staff), but at least the adults in the troop can feel proud that they have a trained patch.

[jc2008]

I'm not so sure from my perspective that we are loosing people solely because of the paperwork and training, but I'm sure that it's a factor that turns some folks off.

I'm all for training, and I guess I can't help but to agree with CYA paperwork....

but there needs to be a serious re-visit of this stuff in the BSA for sure.....

 

Required training such as BALOO. I've been trying to find a course for going on two years now. Not many are available, and the ones that are conflict with pack outings. how am I supposed to check that off?

 

Tour permits. They make sense as they are for a troop where you have a SM and ASM taking a bunch of boys in one or two cars or vans.

Make absolutely no sense when you have a pack with maybe 30 or 60 different families heading to an event. Each boy has at least one parent or guardian with him and that parent is driving, 30 or 60 different vehicles.... and that parent is holding complete responsibility for that kid during the whole of the trip.... The requirement just looks kinda dumb.

 

Ditto the medical forms..... kinda dumb when mom &.or dad are standing right there beside little Jr.

 

Oh, and I will say that we have had multiple... like in more than I can count on one hand.... issues of lost or misfiled applications at council in my year and a half of adult scouting.

 

and then there's the nightmare of on-line recharter.

Medical forms are for EVERYONE that is attending your event, not just little Jr.

 

Is little Jr going to be able to tell you all of Dad's allergies/insurance info/medical conditions if its Dad laying on the ground passed out or in trouble and unable to tell you himself?