Is the BSA required trainings/forms turning off/loosing people

[koolaidman]

Thanks for the replies. I recently had a parent who was willing to help drive a group of boys to summer camp (> 5hrs away). When I started asking about her insurance limits, etc... She said well maybe I won't. I understand that the BSA is trying to Cover their butt or covers yours but as complicated as everything else is in life all this training/paperwork just turns people off, myself included.

 

Then she probably doesn't have insurance and she should be in jail.

It could be she does have insurance and carries her proof (like we have to in TX), however doesn't want to go through the hassle of figuring out her coverage limits.

[Eagledad]

Thanks for the replies. I recently had a parent who was willing to help drive a group of boys to summer camp (> 5hrs away). When I started asking about her insurance limits, etc... She said well maybe I won't. I understand that the BSA is trying to Cover their butt or covers yours but as complicated as everything else is in life all this training/paperwork just turns people off, myself included.

 

Then she probably doesn't have insurance and she should be in jail.

Asking about insurance makes us aware of the responsibility and whether we want that responsibility or not. And training is keeping a lot of adults out of the program. Scoutmaster Specific was a 24 hour class. Ssometimes adults just can't fit a course in their schedule which prevents them from participating at all. I redesgined our District training program just so we could provide more training for the average working person.

[Pack18Alex]

So new parent is going to send scout off to a campout with some unknown to them adult.......

 

Training, even weak as it is, gives them a small guarantee that their scout will be returned in one piece.

 

tour permits that require Adults to have basic understanding of CPR, water safety and first aid protect everyone.

 

 

Yes it is a pain, I don't like it either....But is part of being an adult and serving my youth.

It would be nice if you could create multiple designated meeting places that don't require tour plans. However, how about a push to create PDF Fill-in Forms for all the forms available as PDF? I have a Mac program, PDF Signer, that lets me type anywhere, but it's a pain in the butt. None of us have type-writers.

 

Florida we have standardized medical forms (blue and yellow forms) that all youth programs use, except BSA. So I show up to camp orientation with B&Y forms and was told to come back with the BSA forms...

 

The awful Charter/Advancement web software that rather than being a standardized web form, is instead a mess of Internet Explorer 6 specific Javascript.

[blw2]

I'm not so sure from my perspective that we are loosing people solely because of the paperwork and training, but I'm sure that it's a factor that turns some folks off.

I'm all for training, and I guess I can't help but to agree with CYA paperwork....

but there needs to be a serious re-visit of this stuff in the BSA for sure.....

 

Required training such as BALOO. I've been trying to find a course for going on two years now. Not many are available, and the ones that are conflict with pack outings. how am I supposed to check that off?

 

Tour permits. They make sense as they are for a troop where you have a SM and ASM taking a bunch of boys in one or two cars or vans.

Make absolutely no sense when you have a pack with maybe 30 or 60 different families heading to an event. Each boy has at least one parent or guardian with him and that parent is driving, 30 or 60 different vehicles.... and that parent is holding complete responsibility for that kid during the whole of the trip.... The requirement just looks kinda dumb.

 

Ditto the medical forms..... kinda dumb when mom &.or dad are standing right there beside little Jr.

 

Oh, and I will say that we have had multiple... like in more than I can count on one hand.... issues of lost or misfiled applications at council in my year and a half of adult scouting.

 

and then there's the nightmare of on-line recharter.

[jr56]

True, I have experienced many intances of the computer programs leaving much to be desired, and heard about many more.

[Scouter99]

Here's what it boils down to: People do what they want to do. Some things are a hassle but I've never been so put off by any of them that I've showed my butt and quit. If someone has time to be a SM, they have time for the training. If someone has time to drive 5 hours to summer camp, they've got 5 minutes to find their insurance limits. We had a guy whinge, whinge whinge over ASM training because "he joined scouts to spend more time with his son, not get taken away for a weekend." Fine, then quit, this isn't Indian Guides, anyway.

People will do what they want to do.

[Basementdweller]

I'm not so sure from my perspective that we are loosing people solely because of the paperwork and training, but I'm sure that it's a factor that turns some folks off.

I'm all for training, and I guess I can't help but to agree with CYA paperwork....

but there needs to be a serious re-visit of this stuff in the BSA for sure.....

 

Required training such as BALOO. I've been trying to find a course for going on two years now. Not many are available, and the ones that are conflict with pack outings. how am I supposed to check that off?

 

Tour permits. They make sense as they are for a troop where you have a SM and ASM taking a bunch of boys in one or two cars or vans.

Make absolutely no sense when you have a pack with maybe 30 or 60 different families heading to an event. Each boy has at least one parent or guardian with him and that parent is driving, 30 or 60 different vehicles.... and that parent is holding complete responsibility for that kid during the whole of the trip.... The requirement just looks kinda dumb.

 

Ditto the medical forms..... kinda dumb when mom &.or dad are standing right there beside little Jr.

 

Oh, and I will say that we have had multiple... like in more than I can count on one hand.... issues of lost or misfiled applications at council in my year and a half of adult scouting.

 

and then there's the nightmare of on-line recharter.

A time or two thru the recharter it isn't that big a deal.

 

Missing apps and stuff like that are issues with horrible council service centers.....Absolutely take it up with your DE and SE.

 

Our council only requires tour permits if we leave the council boundaries or for high adventure.

[Khaliela]

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders, but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.

[Khaliela]

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders, but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.

Yes- I know the 50 miler will take a week, not a weekend. My point is the questions are the same. All adults are supposed to be trained and registered or they don't go.

[dedkad]

I think it also causes one of two things to happen:

 

1. Leaders take their boys on less trips because the paperwork is too cumbersome (Sometimes great opportunities come up, but the deadline to submit a tour permit has already passed.), or

2. The boys go on the trip anyway, without the paperwork.

[ramblinrosey]

Thanks for the replies. I recently had a parent who was willing to help drive a group of boys to summer camp (> 5hrs away). When I started asking about her insurance limits, etc... She said well maybe I won't. I understand that the BSA is trying to Cover their butt or covers yours but as complicated as everything else is in life all this training/paperwork just turns people off, myself included.

 

Then she probably doesn't have insurance and she should be in jail.

Not all states require car ins., New Hampshire is one of them...it's optional. But I will say the premiums are real affordable so there should be no reason not to have it. I have politely declined an offer of a parent because they did not have that ins. but found her something else we could use her for.

[Scouter99]

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders' date=' but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.[/quote']

 

Less than 2 hours, actually. Anyone that says they don't have 1.5 hours for 3 training modules is either the President of the US or a liar, anyone that won't didn't want to go in the first place.

[Scouter99]

I think it also causes one of two things to happen:

 

1. Leaders take their boys on less trips because the paperwork is too cumbersome (Sometimes great opportunities come up, but the deadline to submit a tour permit has already passed.), or

2. The boys go on the trip anyway, without the paperwork.

In the old days I sometimes faxed tour permits on the day we were leaving; never got a nasty phonecall or even heard a peep about it.

[dlearyous]

Thanks for the replies. I recently had a parent who was willing to help drive a group of boys to summer camp (> 5hrs away). When I started asking about her insurance limits, etc... She said well maybe I won't. I understand that the BSA is trying to Cover their butt or covers yours but as complicated as everything else is in life all this training/paperwork just turns people off, myself included.

Other than providing info on her vehicle what training and paperwork is she required to do? I'd be worried if a parent that was driving my child did not want to share that info!

[dlearyous]

I think frustration is that everyone who wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid now has to be trained. When we filled out the trip permit for the 50 miler the question were "Do all adults have Youth Protection?" and "Do all adults have Swim Defense & Safety Afloat?" Not everyone wants to be a leader or has time to be leader. I have no problem with BSA requiring training of it's leaders, but we have had parents would have been happy to attend a weekend event change their minds when they realized they would have to put in 2 or 3 hours of training first.

Number one, if a parent wants to go on a weekend campout with their kid they should do it on their own time. I don't know when it happened, but why is the boy adult ratio almost 2 or 3 to1 at campouts these days? Also, if parents are attending shouldn't they be trained on unauthorized situations to keep them out of trouble (one hour of Youth Protection)?