National Outdoor Achievement Badges and Award

[Scouter99]

I know of at least one scouters son who will receive the award unearned.

Roger that.

[duckfoot]

"under the auspicies of the BSA"does not = everything you do as a scout is a scout activity. This award is designed not as a 1 and done or with built in shortcuts, or even that it were to be EASY and everyone in the troop can earn it without trying. I see it as something your long term scouts can earn, when they've already gotten all their mbs and ranks so they focus on taking it up a notch to finish up one of the rocker thingies or the pins. not something your 11 year old scout will get in a year or even two.

Actually, an active, involved scout in a decent troop can easily earn the Camping badge in less than 2 years of membership. Our troop camps 2 nights/month most months, an active boy could easily get his 24 nights in 18 months. The biggest speed bump anyone in our troop encounters is the requirement to earn First Class; we don't ramrod them through First Class, so most of them actually have over 30 nights before I introduce the award to them in their second year. I generally introduce it to the scout as soon as he has 24 nights, because at that point the award's requirements are a good roadmap to what MBs to earn (if he's interested in the different badges) just at the point he's going to start earning MBs.

 

The award also has plenty of "built-in shortcuts"--http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Youth/Awards/NOA.aspx

The adventure badge allows for 1 event to be counted multiple times "A single activity that satisfies multiple items in 3a-g may be counted as separate activities at the discretion of the unit leader. Similarly, a single activity that doubles an item in 3a-d may be counted as two activities at the discretion of the unit leader."

 

So, take backpacking: "A backpacking trip lasting three or more days and covering more than 20 miles without food resupply"

A single backpacking trip of 6 days covering 40 miles w/o resupply would count as 2 adventure credits.

 

But, I would not call the various other means of multiple credit "shortcuts" they're the requirements as written and badge is still difficult to earn and prestigious.

 

Still, the amount of allowances written into the awards make charmoc's "fudging" ludicrous.

 

this has taken a turn to parallel something I run into with the cubs.

Sometimes there will be a requirement to say, visit a library.... either as part of an elective or part of an achievement.

 

Well I'm pretty sure that every boy in the pack has at least a few times been in their school library. Most if not all have visited their local public library too, more times than they can count.

So does that mean that every boy then, will automatically get signed off for that requirement?

.... or must it be an organized thing that is preplanned by the den leader?

 

The answer isn't really clear.

 

For me and my son, I have marched under the assumption that it

a) must have happened during this current scout year

b) if it wasn't something that was formally done as a meeting, then I will be sure to look at the book with my son together, talk about the requirement and what he did, how it meets the requirement (or not), etc....

then I'll sign him off.

 

blw, your "example" is a non sequitur for this specific award, which clearly states in foolproof language that the activity must be done as part of the scouting program, "under the auspices of the BSA." Then again, as charmoc is demonstrating, nothing is foolproof to the sufficiently talented fool.

 

Charmoc, you are wrong, you are wrong, you are wrong. While spouting about "opinions on this forum" and citing the GtA, you continue to post your own incorrect, ignorant opinion which is in direct contradiction to the BSA Advancement Team's official answer to this question. You are a jester.

 

Chris Hunt of the BSA Advancement Team has answered this question in the plainest language for Scouting Magazine: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/201...omment-page-1/

"At a Scouting event" and "under the auspices of the BSA" mean the same thing.

 

If you think that going to the swimming pool is "under the auspices of the BSA" then the next time your kid is there by himself, break his arm and file a BSA insurance request if you're so confident you're right.

So a scout working towards his Hiking MB, can only hike with his troop to have a hike count?

[charmoc]

"under the auspicies of the BSA"does not = everything you do as a scout is a scout activity. This award is designed not as a 1 and done or with built in shortcuts, or even that it were to be EASY and everyone in the troop can earn it without trying. I see it as something your long term scouts can earn, when they've already gotten all their mbs and ranks so they focus on taking it up a notch to finish up one of the rocker thingies or the pins. not something your 11 year old scout will get in a year or even two.

Actually, an active, involved scout in a decent troop can easily earn the Camping badge in less than 2 years of membership. Our troop camps 2 nights/month most months, an active boy could easily get his 24 nights in 18 months. The biggest speed bump anyone in our troop encounters is the requirement to earn First Class; we don't ramrod them through First Class, so most of them actually have over 30 nights before I introduce the award to them in their second year. I generally introduce it to the scout as soon as he has 24 nights, because at that point the award's requirements are a good roadmap to what MBs to earn (if he's interested in the different badges) just at the point he's going to start earning MBs.

 

The award also has plenty of "built-in shortcuts"--http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Youth/Awards/NOA.aspx

The adventure badge allows for 1 event to be counted multiple times "A single activity that satisfies multiple items in 3a-g may be counted as separate activities at the discretion of the unit leader. Similarly, a single activity that doubles an item in 3a-d may be counted as two activities at the discretion of the unit leader."

 

So, take backpacking: "A backpacking trip lasting three or more days and covering more than 20 miles without food resupply"

A single backpacking trip of 6 days covering 40 miles w/o resupply would count as 2 adventure credits.

 

But, I would not call the various other means of multiple credit "shortcuts" they're the requirements as written and badge is still difficult to earn and prestigious.

 

Still, the amount of allowances written into the awards make charmoc's "fudging" ludicrous.

 

this has taken a turn to parallel something I run into with the cubs.

Sometimes there will be a requirement to say, visit a library.... either as part of an elective or part of an achievement.

 

Well I'm pretty sure that every boy in the pack has at least a few times been in their school library. Most if not all have visited their local public library too, more times than they can count.

So does that mean that every boy then, will automatically get signed off for that requirement?

.... or must it be an organized thing that is preplanned by the den leader?

 

The answer isn't really clear.

 

For me and my son, I have marched under the assumption that it

a) must have happened during this current scout year

b) if it wasn't something that was formally done as a meeting, then I will be sure to look at the book with my son together, talk about the requirement and what he did, how it meets the requirement (or not), etc....

then I'll sign him off.

 

blw, your "example" is a non sequitur for this specific award, which clearly states in foolproof language that the activity must be done as part of the scouting program, "under the auspices of the BSA." Then again, as charmoc is demonstrating, nothing is foolproof to the sufficiently talented fool.

 

Charmoc, you are wrong, you are wrong, you are wrong. While spouting about "opinions on this forum" and citing the GtA, you continue to post your own incorrect, ignorant opinion which is in direct contradiction to the BSA Advancement Team's official answer to this question. You are a jester.

 

Chris Hunt of the BSA Advancement Team has answered this question in the plainest language for Scouting Magazine: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/201...omment-page-1/

"At a Scouting event" and "under the auspices of the BSA" mean the same thing.

 

If you think that going to the swimming pool is "under the auspices of the BSA" then the next time your kid is there by himself, break his arm and file a BSA insurance request if you're so confident you're right.

Wow, when scouters fail to “get it†have to result in demeaning language and name calling is a pretty sad day for scouting.

I feel sorry for those of you (and your scouts) who had to result to such tactics to make your point instead of citing the written documentation from BSA to substitute your arguments.

Unfortunately I have met many of you through the years and have seen the damage you have done to many young men left in your care.

But I see I got under your skin pretty well, which proves my point that if you have to defend your position with such a tirade, they you don’t get it and probably never will.

[Scouter99]

"under the auspicies of the BSA"does not = everything you do as a scout is a scout activity. This award is designed not as a 1 and done or with built in shortcuts, or even that it were to be EASY and everyone in the troop can earn it without trying. I see it as something your long term scouts can earn, when they've already gotten all their mbs and ranks so they focus on taking it up a notch to finish up one of the rocker thingies or the pins. not something your 11 year old scout will get in a year or even two.

Actually, an active, involved scout in a decent troop can easily earn the Camping badge in less than 2 years of membership. Our troop camps 2 nights/month most months, an active boy could easily get his 24 nights in 18 months. The biggest speed bump anyone in our troop encounters is the requirement to earn First Class; we don't ramrod them through First Class, so most of them actually have over 30 nights before I introduce the award to them in their second year. I generally introduce it to the scout as soon as he has 24 nights, because at that point the award's requirements are a good roadmap to what MBs to earn (if he's interested in the different badges) just at the point he's going to start earning MBs.

 

The award also has plenty of "built-in shortcuts"--http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Youth/Awards/NOA.aspx

The adventure badge allows for 1 event to be counted multiple times "A single activity that satisfies multiple items in 3a-g may be counted as separate activities at the discretion of the unit leader. Similarly, a single activity that doubles an item in 3a-d may be counted as two activities at the discretion of the unit leader."

 

So, take backpacking: "A backpacking trip lasting three or more days and covering more than 20 miles without food resupply"

A single backpacking trip of 6 days covering 40 miles w/o resupply would count as 2 adventure credits.

 

But, I would not call the various other means of multiple credit "shortcuts" they're the requirements as written and badge is still difficult to earn and prestigious.

 

Still, the amount of allowances written into the awards make charmoc's "fudging" ludicrous.

 

this has taken a turn to parallel something I run into with the cubs.

Sometimes there will be a requirement to say, visit a library.... either as part of an elective or part of an achievement.

 

Well I'm pretty sure that every boy in the pack has at least a few times been in their school library. Most if not all have visited their local public library too, more times than they can count.

So does that mean that every boy then, will automatically get signed off for that requirement?

.... or must it be an organized thing that is preplanned by the den leader?

 

The answer isn't really clear.

 

For me and my son, I have marched under the assumption that it

a) must have happened during this current scout year

b) if it wasn't something that was formally done as a meeting, then I will be sure to look at the book with my son together, talk about the requirement and what he did, how it meets the requirement (or not), etc....

then I'll sign him off.

 

blw, your "example" is a non sequitur for this specific award, which clearly states in foolproof language that the activity must be done as part of the scouting program, "under the auspices of the BSA." Then again, as charmoc is demonstrating, nothing is foolproof to the sufficiently talented fool.

 

Charmoc, you are wrong, you are wrong, you are wrong. While spouting about "opinions on this forum" and citing the GtA, you continue to post your own incorrect, ignorant opinion which is in direct contradiction to the BSA Advancement Team's official answer to this question. You are a jester.

 

Chris Hunt of the BSA Advancement Team has answered this question in the plainest language for Scouting Magazine: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/201...omment-page-1/

"At a Scouting event" and "under the auspices of the BSA" mean the same thing.

 

If you think that going to the swimming pool is "under the auspices of the BSA" then the next time your kid is there by himself, break his arm and file a BSA insurance request if you're so confident you're right.

Hiking MB has no language restricting miles hiked to Scouting activities. NOA and Camping MB do. There's no comparison between Hiking MB's requirements.

5. Take five hikes, each on a different day, and each of 10 continuous miles. You may stop for as many short rest periods as needed, as well as one meal, during each hike, but not for an extended period (example: overnight). Prepare a hike plan for each hike.*

6. Take a hike of 20 continuous miles in one day following a hike plan you have prepared. You may stop for as many short rest periods as needed, as well as one meal, but not for an extended period (example: overnight).

[charmoc]

I know of at least one scouters son who will receive the award unearned.

Well still proves my point. 1) I don’t track my son’s requirement, he does that, and after all he is a scout. 2) You still have not substantiated your argument using any established BSA literature which shows the weakness in your arguments 3) you (and scouter99) have to result in low blows.

[duckfoot]

"under the auspicies of the BSA"does not = everything you do as a scout is a scout activity. This award is designed not as a 1 and done or with built in shortcuts, or even that it were to be EASY and everyone in the troop can earn it without trying. I see it as something your long term scouts can earn, when they've already gotten all their mbs and ranks so they focus on taking it up a notch to finish up one of the rocker thingies or the pins. not something your 11 year old scout will get in a year or even two.

Actually, an active, involved scout in a decent troop can easily earn the Camping badge in less than 2 years of membership. Our troop camps 2 nights/month most months, an active boy could easily get his 24 nights in 18 months. The biggest speed bump anyone in our troop encounters is the requirement to earn First Class; we don't ramrod them through First Class, so most of them actually have over 30 nights before I introduce the award to them in their second year. I generally introduce it to the scout as soon as he has 24 nights, because at that point the award's requirements are a good roadmap to what MBs to earn (if he's interested in the different badges) just at the point he's going to start earning MBs.

 

The award also has plenty of "built-in shortcuts"--http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Youth/Awards/NOA.aspx

The adventure badge allows for 1 event to be counted multiple times "A single activity that satisfies multiple items in 3a-g may be counted as separate activities at the discretion of the unit leader. Similarly, a single activity that doubles an item in 3a-d may be counted as two activities at the discretion of the unit leader."

 

So, take backpacking: "A backpacking trip lasting three or more days and covering more than 20 miles without food resupply"

A single backpacking trip of 6 days covering 40 miles w/o resupply would count as 2 adventure credits.

 

But, I would not call the various other means of multiple credit "shortcuts" they're the requirements as written and badge is still difficult to earn and prestigious.

 

Still, the amount of allowances written into the awards make charmoc's "fudging" ludicrous.

 

this has taken a turn to parallel something I run into with the cubs.

Sometimes there will be a requirement to say, visit a library.... either as part of an elective or part of an achievement.

 

Well I'm pretty sure that every boy in the pack has at least a few times been in their school library. Most if not all have visited their local public library too, more times than they can count.

So does that mean that every boy then, will automatically get signed off for that requirement?

.... or must it be an organized thing that is preplanned by the den leader?

 

The answer isn't really clear.

 

For me and my son, I have marched under the assumption that it

a) must have happened during this current scout year

b) if it wasn't something that was formally done as a meeting, then I will be sure to look at the book with my son together, talk about the requirement and what he did, how it meets the requirement (or not), etc....

then I'll sign him off.

 

blw, your "example" is a non sequitur for this specific award, which clearly states in foolproof language that the activity must be done as part of the scouting program, "under the auspices of the BSA." Then again, as charmoc is demonstrating, nothing is foolproof to the sufficiently talented fool.

 

Charmoc, you are wrong, you are wrong, you are wrong. While spouting about "opinions on this forum" and citing the GtA, you continue to post your own incorrect, ignorant opinion which is in direct contradiction to the BSA Advancement Team's official answer to this question. You are a jester.

 

Chris Hunt of the BSA Advancement Team has answered this question in the plainest language for Scouting Magazine: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/201...omment-page-1/

"At a Scouting event" and "under the auspices of the BSA" mean the same thing.

 

If you think that going to the swimming pool is "under the auspices of the BSA" then the next time your kid is there by himself, break his arm and file a BSA insurance request if you're so confident you're right.

My point was that this article that is being thrown about only address specific language for camping not anything else. 'Under the auspices of the BSA' is a very broad statement that does nothing to suggest it is sponsored scouting events, only that the scout is involved in a activity for which he has a unit leader approval.

 

Seems the MB does not restrict the miles but the NOA does and those miles includes the Hiking MB.

 

Hiking. A Boy Scout or Varsity Scout may earn the National Outdoor Badge for Hiking upon successfully completing the following requirements:

 

1.Earn the First Class rank.

2.Earn the Hiking and Orienteering merit badges.

3.Complete 100 miles of hiking or backpacking under the auspices of the Boy Scouts of America, including miles hiked as part of requirement 2.

[Basementdweller]

I know of at least one scouters son who will receive the award unearned.

If my son chooses to earn it......

 

He will have done do in a scouting manner and not short cutting the intent.....and counting absolutely every breath he takes toward the award.

 

The best part....he will never have intended to earn it....He will have earned it thru the course of an active scouting career.....Not thru book keeping tricks.

[jpstodwftexas]

If anyone Needs Miles For Cycling Wichita Falls Texas has Hotter-n-Hell 100 Bike Ride In August every year. We have several Scout Units participate each Year. Still time to register. Wichita Lodge 35 will be working Event again this year. I am sure if yall look around you can find a Bike Ride to participate in as a Scout Unit

[jpstodwftexas]

You questioned my word.

You asked me why it appeared It would seem you really wanted to the Award instead of your son...YOUR INITIAL POST..the Use of the Word "I" Over and Over. It has been clarified in subsequent posts. Do we need to keep Harping over it?

[Basementdweller]

If anyone Needs Miles For Cycling Wichita Falls Texas has Hotter-n-Hell 100 Bike Ride In August every year. We have several Scout Units participate each Year. Still time to register. Wichita Lodge 35 will be working Event again this year. I am sure if yall look around you can find a Bike Ride to participate in as a Scout Unit

Sounds like under the Auspices to me.......

 

Very scouting to send the invite.

[charmoc]

Under the auspices......Means during a scouting function or event....as mentioned earlier....

 

your out of line again. You should discuss it with your son. Maybe coach him how to approach the PLC about it and maybe help him promote it. But the bottom line is the boys need to decide to do it. If they say no.....then shelve it for a year and then bring it back up.........

 

 

In my opinion it is a far superior award to Eagle. the award means a lad has took his BSA experience and got every last drop of adventure. I would like for my son or a member of my troop to earn it....But they simply are not interested in it.

 

Being short sighted as young men are.

Wake me up? Oh, sorry, resulted to low blows and now "my son is better than your son" This is old.

[5yearscouter]

If anyone Needs Miles For Cycling Wichita Falls Texas has Hotter-n-Hell 100 Bike Ride In August every year. We have several Scout Units participate each Year. Still time to register. Wichita Lodge 35 will be working Event again this year. I am sure if yall look around you can find a Bike Ride to participate in as a Scout Unit

 

See that's an example of something that appears to be a community event, not a scout unit, district or council event--but it is supported and attended heavily by scout units. So we would talk it up in scout meetings, and get the SM on board to count it for the award. That would be something I'd think of as an exceptable under the auspices that isn't technically a scout event.

[jpstodwftexas]

charmoc commented

#24.4

Today, 03:02 PM

Wow, when scouters fail to “get it†have to result in demeaning language and name calling is a pretty sad day for scouting.

I feel sorry for those of you (and your scouts) who had to result to such tactics to make your point instead of citing the written documentation from BSA to substitute your arguments.

Unfortunately I have met many of you through the years and have seen the damage you have done to many young men left in your care.

But I see I got under your skin pretty well, which proves my point that if you have to defend your position with such a tirade, they you don’t get it and probably never will.

Are you a Registered Merit Badge Counselor? Well I am.. We must Follow BSA Youth Protection. We can not do One on One Contact. Maybe your Coucil does not But mine does.

In Regards to Tour Permits..An Example, So a Scout wants to earn swimming Merit Badge outside of Summer Camp on his own or a Troop does..They are going to the YMCA to Earn it.. Would they require a Tour Permit. YES... it is outside of Council-Owned Property..and It is not a Council or District Event

Below is a Cut and Paste from Scouting.org...written documentation from BSA as you pointed out.

Q. When do I need to complete a tour and activity plan?

A. Times when a tour and activity plan must be submitted for council review include the following:

• Trips of 500 miles or more; or
  
• Trips outside of council borders (exception: not to your council-owned property); or
  
• Trips to Florida Sea Base, Northern Tier, Philmont Scout Ranch, Summit Bechtel Reserve (you will be asked to present a copy of your tour and activity plan upon arrival),national Scout jamboree, National Order of the Arrow Conference, or a regionally sponsored event; or
  
• When conducting any of the following activities outside of council or district events:
  
  • Aquatics activities (swimming, boating, floating, scuba, etc.)
    
  • Climbing and rappelling
    
  • Orientation flights (process flying plan)
    
  • Shooting sports
    
  • Any activities involving motorized vehicles as part of the program (snowmobiles, boating, etc.); or
    
  • At a council's request (Contact your local council for additional guidelines or regulations concerning tour and activity plans; many have set guidelines for events or activities within council boundaries such as for Cub Scout overnight camping.)
    

  [*]

  [*]​

  • One-on-one contact between adults and Scouts prohibited. One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster’s conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths.
    
  • Two-deep leadership on all outings required. Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older,
    

  [*]​You also wrote "We need to avoid overthinking this. Next thing you know we put it in the “too hard to do†category and scouts wont attempt to accomplish this award.

  Open up the dictionary and read the definition of “auspiceâ€Â. Then go on line and look at several definitions from other sources. It all boils down to doing something with the support and guidance of the sponsoring organization.

  Yes, this is an individual award. Those who think differently need to look at the requirements, and look at them again. You can see earning specific merit badges is part of the requirements and nowhere in any of the scouting literature states that a scout must have two deep leadership and tour permits to earn merit badges.

  Quit making this hard. are required for all trips and outings....

[jpstodwftexas]

If anyone Needs Miles For Cycling Wichita Falls Texas has Hotter-n-Hell 100 Bike Ride In August every year. We have several Scout Units participate each Year. Still time to register. Wichita Lodge 35 will be working Event again this year. I am sure if yall look around you can find a Bike Ride to participate in as a Scout Unit

Each Unit has Tour Permits. They Have two-deep leadership..They Follow BSA Rules..They also wear Shirts Clearly marked Indicating they are Representing BSA. we usually arrange for them To Stay free at our Camp if possible or at a Charter Organization

[jpstodwftexas]

 

See that's an example of something that appears to be a community event, not a scout unit, district or council event--but it is supported and attended heavily by scout units. So we would talk it up in scout meetings, and get the SM on board to count it for the award. That would be something I'd think of as an exceptable under the auspices that isn't technically a scout event.

 

 

Everything does not have to be strictly a Scout Sponsored Event.

However You Must apply BSA Rules

They Obtain a Tour Permit prior to Coming

They Observe BSA Guidelines