National Outdoor Achievement Badges and Award

[Basementdweller]

While it is an individual award......I cannot be earned by individual effort.......You gotta do it with a group of scouts, which is a group afterall.

 

Old KDD can't take scout son out every saturday morning for a bike ride till he makes the miles for the riding portion of the badge. Now he could take scout son's patrol out every saturday morning for a bike ride.

 

 

There is a difference.

Not according to the links below.

 

A scout and dad cannot go to the riding stable and go for a ride and count it....Nor can they ride to the cornor store or go family camping, canoeing or hiking and count it.

 

The sole exception to that is working on a merit badge but even most of those are done as a scouting group........

 

I am not putting up roadblocks nor am I trying to short cut the program.

 

Complete the requirement as written....Under the auspice as discussed below.

[Basementdweller]

Ya know that is a good point.....My son and the bulk of his patrol hang out most summer days at our local public pool.....So does that make it a scouting event?????? of course not.....Could it be sure......I know my son has enough hours at that pool to ever probably 10 or more gold devices in aquatics, 4 years x 12 weeks x 5 days x 6 hours......ya pretty easily.....

 

But it isn't under the auspices.......so it doesn't count.

[charmoc]

You guys seem to miss the point. First of all, nothing in the requirement states “at a scouting event.†Might try reading the requirement first, then re-read them again.

Secondly, you obviously do not understand the definition of “auspiceâ€Â. Try looking it up before stating that it means “a scouting event.â€Â

Lastly, if your son want to apply all the hours he has spent at the pool with his scouting buddies, Yes, it counts, but only for the aquatics portion of the badge.

Quit adding to the requirements!

 

[blw2]

this has taken a turn to parallel something I run into with the cubs.

Sometimes there will be a requirement to say, visit a library.... either as part of an elective or part of an achievement.

 

Well I'm pretty sure that every boy in the pack has at least a few times been in their school library. Most if not all have visited their local public library too, more times than they can count.

So does that mean that every boy then, will automatically get signed off for that requirement?

.... or must it be an organized thing that is preplanned by the den leader?

 

The answer isn't really clear.

 

For me and my son, I have marched under the assumption that it

a) must have happened during this current scout year

b) if it wasn't something that was formally done as a meeting, then I will be sure to look at the book with my son together, talk about the requirement and what he did, how it meets the requirement (or not), etc....

then I'll sign him off.

 

I'm quite sure many parents have signed off even if he had visited it last year...... without so much as a review or discussion with the boy....

 

I can only imagine that a similar approach would be appropriate here.

Common sense must be engaged......

[Basementdweller]

You guys seem to miss the point. First of all, nothing in the requirement states “at a scouting event.†Might try reading the requirement first, then re-read them again.

Secondly, you obviously do not understand the definition of “auspiceâ€Â. Try looking it up before stating that it means “a scouting event.â€Â

Lastly, if your son want to apply all the hours he has spent at the pool with his scouting buddies, Yes, it counts, but only for the aquatics portion of the badge.

Quit adding to the requirements!

It does not count.....

 

Read the links.....I posted above. especially 18.1

 

 

Him hanging at the pool checkin out the ladies is not even remotely under the auspices of scouting, even if it is with some of his buddies from his patrol....

[charmoc]

You guys seem to miss the point. First of all, nothing in the requirement states “at a scouting event.†Might try reading the requirement first, then re-read them again.

Secondly, you obviously do not understand the definition of “auspiceâ€Â. Try looking it up before stating that it means “a scouting event.â€Â

Lastly, if your son want to apply all the hours he has spent at the pool with his scouting buddies, Yes, it counts, but only for the aquatics portion of the badge.

Quit adding to the requirements!

Shure it does! If his time at the pool was done for the purpose of working on this requirement then it counts. Checking out the ladies is just a bonus!

[charmoc]

this has taken a turn to parallel something I run into with the cubs.

Sometimes there will be a requirement to say, visit a library.... either as part of an elective or part of an achievement.

 

Well I'm pretty sure that every boy in the pack has at least a few times been in their school library. Most if not all have visited their local public library too, more times than they can count.

So does that mean that every boy then, will automatically get signed off for that requirement?

.... or must it be an organized thing that is preplanned by the den leader?

 

The answer isn't really clear.

 

For me and my son, I have marched under the assumption that it

a) must have happened during this current scout year

b) if it wasn't something that was formally done as a meeting, then I will be sure to look at the book with my son together, talk about the requirement and what he did, how it meets the requirement (or not), etc....

then I'll sign him off.

 

I'm quite sure many parents have signed off even if he had visited it last year...... without so much as a review or discussion with the boy....

 

I can only imagine that a similar approach would be appropriate here.

Common sense must be engaged......

Yes, thats the sprit!

[Basementdweller]

I know of at least one scouters son who will receive the award unearned.

[charmoc]

I know of at least one scouters son who will receive the award unearned.

Wow, that was a pretty low blow.

[Scouter99]

"under the auspicies of the BSA"does not = everything you do as a scout is a scout activity. This award is designed not as a 1 and done or with built in shortcuts, or even that it were to be EASY and everyone in the troop can earn it without trying. I see it as something your long term scouts can earn, when they've already gotten all their mbs and ranks so they focus on taking it up a notch to finish up one of the rocker thingies or the pins. not something your 11 year old scout will get in a year or even two.

Actually, an active, involved scout in a decent troop can easily earn the Camping badge in less than 2 years of membership. Our troop camps 2 nights/month most months, an active boy could easily get his 24 nights in 18 months. The biggest speed bump anyone in our troop encounters is the requirement to earn First Class; we don't ramrod them through First Class, so most of them actually have over 30 nights before I introduce the award to them in their second year. I generally introduce it to the scout as soon as he has 24 nights, because at that point the award's requirements are a good roadmap to what MBs to earn (if he's interested in the different badges) just at the point he's going to start earning MBs.

 

The award also has plenty of "built-in shortcuts"--http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Youth/Awards/NOA.aspx

The adventure badge allows for 1 event to be counted multiple times "A single activity that satisfies multiple items in 3a-g may be counted as separate activities at the discretion of the unit leader. Similarly, a single activity that doubles an item in 3a-d may be counted as two activities at the discretion of the unit leader."

 

So, take backpacking: "A backpacking trip lasting three or more days and covering more than 20 miles without food resupply"

A single backpacking trip of 6 days covering 40 miles w/o resupply would count as 2 adventure credits.

 

But, I would not call the various other means of multiple credit "shortcuts" they're the requirements as written and badge is still difficult to earn and prestigious.

 

Still, the amount of allowances written into the awards make charmoc's "fudging" ludicrous.

 

this has taken a turn to parallel something I run into with the cubs.

Sometimes there will be a requirement to say, visit a library.... either as part of an elective or part of an achievement.

 

Well I'm pretty sure that every boy in the pack has at least a few times been in their school library. Most if not all have visited their local public library too, more times than they can count.

So does that mean that every boy then, will automatically get signed off for that requirement?

.... or must it be an organized thing that is preplanned by the den leader?

 

The answer isn't really clear.

 

For me and my son, I have marched under the assumption that it

a) must have happened during this current scout year

b) if it wasn't something that was formally done as a meeting, then I will be sure to look at the book with my son together, talk about the requirement and what he did, how it meets the requirement (or not), etc....

then I'll sign him off.

 

blw, your "example" is a non sequitur for this specific award, which clearly states in foolproof language that the activity must be done as part of the scouting program, "under the auspices of the BSA." Then again, as charmoc is demonstrating, nothing is foolproof to the sufficiently talented fool.

 

Charmoc, you are wrong, you are wrong, you are wrong. While spouting about "opinions on this forum" and citing the GtA, you continue to post your own incorrect, ignorant opinion which is in direct contradiction to the BSA Advancement Team's official answer to this question. You are a jester.

 

Chris Hunt of the BSA Advancement Team has answered this question in the plainest language for Scouting Magazine: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/201...omment-page-1/

"At a Scouting event" and "under the auspices of the BSA" mean the same thing.

 

If you think that going to the swimming pool is "under the auspices of the BSA" then the next time your kid is there by himself, break his arm and file a BSA insurance request if you're so confident you're right.

[5yearscouter]

Scouter99

 

Oh I'm pretty sure any scout in our troop should have the camping rocker thingy, because we do camp 2 nights every month, plus a week long summer camp of 6 nites, so that's 28 nites a year (11x2+6) that is if they go on all the campouts, eh? I think comparatively, camping is the easiest one to get, almost too easy.....

 

I don't think the allowances to count this or that are shortcuts, those are just the rules man!

I agree that

"Still, the amount of allowances written into the awards make ANY "fudging" ludicrous."

 

 

 

[duckfoot]

"under the auspicies of the BSA"does not = everything you do as a scout is a scout activity. This award is designed not as a 1 and done or with built in shortcuts, or even that it were to be EASY and everyone in the troop can earn it without trying. I see it as something your long term scouts can earn, when they've already gotten all their mbs and ranks so they focus on taking it up a notch to finish up one of the rocker thingies or the pins. not something your 11 year old scout will get in a year or even two.

Actually, an active, involved scout in a decent troop can easily earn the Camping badge in less than 2 years of membership. Our troop camps 2 nights/month most months, an active boy could easily get his 24 nights in 18 months. The biggest speed bump anyone in our troop encounters is the requirement to earn First Class; we don't ramrod them through First Class, so most of them actually have over 30 nights before I introduce the award to them in their second year. I generally introduce it to the scout as soon as he has 24 nights, because at that point the award's requirements are a good roadmap to what MBs to earn (if he's interested in the different badges) just at the point he's going to start earning MBs.

 

The award also has plenty of "built-in shortcuts"--http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Youth/Awards/NOA.aspx

The adventure badge allows for 1 event to be counted multiple times "A single activity that satisfies multiple items in 3a-g may be counted as separate activities at the discretion of the unit leader. Similarly, a single activity that doubles an item in 3a-d may be counted as two activities at the discretion of the unit leader."

 

So, take backpacking: "A backpacking trip lasting three or more days and covering more than 20 miles without food resupply"

A single backpacking trip of 6 days covering 40 miles w/o resupply would count as 2 adventure credits.

 

But, I would not call the various other means of multiple credit "shortcuts" they're the requirements as written and badge is still difficult to earn and prestigious.

 

Still, the amount of allowances written into the awards make charmoc's "fudging" ludicrous.

 

this has taken a turn to parallel something I run into with the cubs.

Sometimes there will be a requirement to say, visit a library.... either as part of an elective or part of an achievement.

 

Well I'm pretty sure that every boy in the pack has at least a few times been in their school library. Most if not all have visited their local public library too, more times than they can count.

So does that mean that every boy then, will automatically get signed off for that requirement?

.... or must it be an organized thing that is preplanned by the den leader?

 

The answer isn't really clear.

 

For me and my son, I have marched under the assumption that it

a) must have happened during this current scout year

b) if it wasn't something that was formally done as a meeting, then I will be sure to look at the book with my son together, talk about the requirement and what he did, how it meets the requirement (or not), etc....

then I'll sign him off.

 

blw, your "example" is a non sequitur for this specific award, which clearly states in foolproof language that the activity must be done as part of the scouting program, "under the auspices of the BSA." Then again, as charmoc is demonstrating, nothing is foolproof to the sufficiently talented fool.

 

Charmoc, you are wrong, you are wrong, you are wrong. While spouting about "opinions on this forum" and citing the GtA, you continue to post your own incorrect, ignorant opinion which is in direct contradiction to the BSA Advancement Team's official answer to this question. You are a jester.

 

Chris Hunt of the BSA Advancement Team has answered this question in the plainest language for Scouting Magazine: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/201...omment-page-1/

"At a Scouting event" and "under the auspices of the BSA" mean the same thing.

 

If you think that going to the swimming pool is "under the auspices of the BSA" then the next time your kid is there by himself, break his arm and file a BSA insurance request if you're so confident you're right.

Actually, all that article clarifies is the camping section 9a and that 'at designated Scouting activities or events' means that activity is 'held under the auspices of some level of the BSA'. It in no way defines the statement 'under the auspices of the BSA'.

[Basementdweller]

I know of at least one scouters son who will receive the award unearned.

I am not the one counting my scouts time in the bath tub as hours for the aquatic segment.

[Scouter99]

"under the auspicies of the BSA"does not = everything you do as a scout is a scout activity. This award is designed not as a 1 and done or with built in shortcuts, or even that it were to be EASY and everyone in the troop can earn it without trying. I see it as something your long term scouts can earn, when they've already gotten all their mbs and ranks so they focus on taking it up a notch to finish up one of the rocker thingies or the pins. not something your 11 year old scout will get in a year or even two.

Actually, an active, involved scout in a decent troop can easily earn the Camping badge in less than 2 years of membership. Our troop camps 2 nights/month most months, an active boy could easily get his 24 nights in 18 months. The biggest speed bump anyone in our troop encounters is the requirement to earn First Class; we don't ramrod them through First Class, so most of them actually have over 30 nights before I introduce the award to them in their second year. I generally introduce it to the scout as soon as he has 24 nights, because at that point the award's requirements are a good roadmap to what MBs to earn (if he's interested in the different badges) just at the point he's going to start earning MBs.

 

The award also has plenty of "built-in shortcuts"--http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Youth/Awards/NOA.aspx

The adventure badge allows for 1 event to be counted multiple times "A single activity that satisfies multiple items in 3a-g may be counted as separate activities at the discretion of the unit leader. Similarly, a single activity that doubles an item in 3a-d may be counted as two activities at the discretion of the unit leader."

 

So, take backpacking: "A backpacking trip lasting three or more days and covering more than 20 miles without food resupply"

A single backpacking trip of 6 days covering 40 miles w/o resupply would count as 2 adventure credits.

 

But, I would not call the various other means of multiple credit "shortcuts" they're the requirements as written and badge is still difficult to earn and prestigious.

 

Still, the amount of allowances written into the awards make charmoc's "fudging" ludicrous.

 

this has taken a turn to parallel something I run into with the cubs.

Sometimes there will be a requirement to say, visit a library.... either as part of an elective or part of an achievement.

 

Well I'm pretty sure that every boy in the pack has at least a few times been in their school library. Most if not all have visited their local public library too, more times than they can count.

So does that mean that every boy then, will automatically get signed off for that requirement?

.... or must it be an organized thing that is preplanned by the den leader?

 

The answer isn't really clear.

 

For me and my son, I have marched under the assumption that it

a) must have happened during this current scout year

b) if it wasn't something that was formally done as a meeting, then I will be sure to look at the book with my son together, talk about the requirement and what he did, how it meets the requirement (or not), etc....

then I'll sign him off.

 

blw, your "example" is a non sequitur for this specific award, which clearly states in foolproof language that the activity must be done as part of the scouting program, "under the auspices of the BSA." Then again, as charmoc is demonstrating, nothing is foolproof to the sufficiently talented fool.

 

Charmoc, you are wrong, you are wrong, you are wrong. While spouting about "opinions on this forum" and citing the GtA, you continue to post your own incorrect, ignorant opinion which is in direct contradiction to the BSA Advancement Team's official answer to this question. You are a jester.

 

Chris Hunt of the BSA Advancement Team has answered this question in the plainest language for Scouting Magazine: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/201...omment-page-1/

"At a Scouting event" and "under the auspices of the BSA" mean the same thing.

 

If you think that going to the swimming pool is "under the auspices of the BSA" then the next time your kid is there by himself, break his arm and file a BSA insurance request if you're so confident you're right.

The answer makes clear that the Camping MB's verbiage "at designated Scouting activities or events." means "under the auspices of the BSA." The two phrases are synonymous. Where NOA says "under the auspices and approval" it might well say ""at designated Scouting activities"; and vice versa.

 

Again, this is very plain. If you think that a boy who happens to be a scout walks somewhere with boots on makes him "hiking under the auspices of BSA", then go ahead and send your boy down the road to the store and sprain his ankle on the way and see how far your BSA insurance claim gets.

[Scouter99]

Scouter99

 

Oh I'm pretty sure any scout in our troop should have the camping rocker thingy, because we do camp 2 nights every month, plus a week long summer camp of 6 nites, so that's 28 nites a year (11x2+6) that is if they go on all the campouts, eh? I think comparatively, camping is the easiest one to get, almost too easy.....

 

I don't think the allowances to count this or that are shortcuts, those are just the rules man!

I agree that

"Still, the amount of allowances written into the awards make ANY "fudging" ludicrous."

 

 

I don't mind Camping being less difficult because it whets the appetite and supports all the others. If they get out camping then they're going to earn hiking miles, aquatics hours, riding miles, etc. and that pentagonal patch looks lonely with just one badge on one side, so they're motivated to get going on the others.