National Outdoor Achievement Badges and Award

[King Ding Dong]

Look, KDD, the meaning of "under the auspices of BSA" is clear: It means on an official patrol, troop, district, council, national, or OA activity. It does not mean every/any time a boy who is a scout touches a horse, bike, boot, tent, or swim trunks.

If you want to be cute and count non-scout events, then you might as well count every shower or bath for the next 50 days and mark him off for 25 hours of aquatics time, and have him wear his boots to the mall and count it as hiking. Earning the medal is a great, really cool goal for Prince Ding Dong, but if you're going to fudge it, you make it worth nothing.

 

Regardless of its impact on Prince Ding Dong's ability to earn the NOA, if your troop doesn't meet summers, get on BeAScout.org tonight and find a new troop.

Ok, been a long day. We're good.

[Scouter99]

Look, KDD, the meaning of "under the auspices of BSA" is clear: It means on an official patrol, troop, district, council, national, or OA activity. It does not mean every/any time a boy who is a scout touches a horse, bike, boot, tent, or swim trunks.

If you want to be cute and count non-scout events, then you might as well count every shower or bath for the next 50 days and mark him off for 25 hours of aquatics time, and have him wear his boots to the mall and count it as hiking. Earning the medal is a great, really cool goal for Prince Ding Dong, but if you're going to fudge it, you make it worth nothing.

 

Regardless of its impact on Prince Ding Dong's ability to earn the NOA, if your troop doesn't meet summers, get on BeAScout.org tonight and find a new troop.

I know the feeling.

[King Ding Dong]

I am not sure exactly what a venture patrol is????? I think it is Venture Crew that functions as a patrol within a troop......Guessing it would have to be all male.

 

So since I am my sons Scout Master.......If I were a game playing scouter, everytime we go fishing, hiking, camping, backpacking as a family I could count it as under the Auspices.........Naw....

 

I suggest finding a real Troop.

Info on a Venture Patrol. Minimum age 13.

 

http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Venture_Patrol

[Basementdweller]

My son's troop is active in all areas in this award except for riding........Lucky that way I guess......So there is no need to look beyond the troop for nights or miles, or hours for any of the requirements.

Some summer camps around here offer horsemanship merit badge for no additional cost.....Not sure how many miles they do a week but over the course of a 6 or 7 year scouting career it is possible. As your scout becomes patrol leader and such he can guide the program.......Whose to say he can't have an ad hoc patrol to go horseback riding on a weekend.... or how about doing it on bikes, the patrol could ride to the movies or local pool or anywhere.....

[Basementdweller]

My son's troop is active in all areas in this award except for riding........Lucky that way I guess......So there is no need to look beyond the troop for nights or miles, or hours for any of the requirements.

Riding can be either bikes or horses......Bikes are cheap enough.....The Patrol can ride to the movies as a patrol or ride out and back to the next campout..... With the growing prevelance and rails to trails I should be less dangerous than riding state highways.

[Basementdweller]

I am not sure exactly what a venture patrol is????? I think it is Venture Crew that functions as a patrol within a troop......Guessing it would have to be all male.

 

So since I am my sons Scout Master.......If I were a game playing scouter, everytime we go fishing, hiking, camping, backpacking as a family I could count it as under the Auspices.........Naw....

 

I suggest finding a real Troop.

Ok KDD so what is your angle on creating a venture patrol......

[charmoc]

We need to avoid overthinking this. Next thing you know we put it in the “too hard to do†category and scouts wont attempt to accomplish this award.

Open up the dictionary and read the definition of “auspiceâ€Â. Then go on line and look at several definitions from other sources. It all boils down to doing something with the support and guidance of the sponsoring organization.

Yes, this is an individual award. Those who think differently need to look at the requirements, and look at them again. You can see earning specific merit badges is part of the requirements and nowhere in any of the scouting literature states that a scout must have two deep leadership and tour permits to earn merit badges.

Quit making this hard.

 

[Basementdweller]

While it is an individual award......I cannot be earned by individual effort.......You gotta do it with a group of scouts, which is a group afterall.

 

Old KDD can't take scout son out every saturday morning for a bike ride till he makes the miles for the riding portion of the badge. Now he could take scout son's patrol out every saturday morning for a bike ride.

 

 

There is a difference.

[charmoc]

While it is an individual award......I cannot be earned by individual effort.......You gotta do it with a group of scouts, which is a group afterall.

 

Old KDD can't take scout son out every saturday morning for a bike ride till he makes the miles for the riding portion of the badge. Now he could take scout son's patrol out every saturday morning for a bike ride.

 

 

There is a difference.

Basementdweller. Your statement is conflicting.

Noting in the requirements for this award state it has to be earned as a group effort or has to be completed with a group of scouts.

Quit putting in requirements where none exist. This is simple stuff that 11-17 year olds can understand.

[Basementdweller]

While it is an individual award......I cannot be earned by individual effort.......You gotta do it with a group of scouts, which is a group afterall.

 

Old KDD can't take scout son out every saturday morning for a bike ride till he makes the miles for the riding portion of the badge. Now he could take scout son's patrol out every saturday morning for a bike ride.

 

 

There is a difference.

So can a Dad and Son ride Bikes to the donut shop and back every saturday morning and count the milage......NO

 

Can Son and patrol ride to the donut shop and back every saturday morning and count the milage.....Yes

 

I am not adding requirements...It is an individual but must be earned as part of the group , be it patrol, troop, district or council.

 

 

I am not the one confused, nor am I adding requirements.

 

My point is overzealous dad cannot significantly impact whether his individual scout can earn it or not.

[charmoc]

While it is an individual award......I cannot be earned by individual effort.......You gotta do it with a group of scouts, which is a group afterall.

 

Old KDD can't take scout son out every saturday morning for a bike ride till he makes the miles for the riding portion of the badge. Now he could take scout son's patrol out every saturday morning for a bike ride.

 

 

There is a difference.

Basementdweller: Really? Where in any of the boy scout literature all requirements have to be earned as part of a group?

 

If you cannot back this up, then you are adding to the requirements.

 

From the BSA’s Advancement Guide paragraph 2.0.0.3 Personal Growth Is Prime Consideration “Though much is done individually at their own paceâ€Â

 

So if a scout for the purpose of working on a requirement takes a bike ride to the doughnut shop with dad, does it count? YES!

[charmoc]

KDD. Suggest you get yourself a copy of the advancement guide and read it from cover to cover. There are a lot of opinions on this forum. Often these oppinions blead over to pratices in a scout troop and the past 100 years of BSA experience in putting on a program for the development of scouts go’s out the window.

 

I’m no expert, so I read the Boy Scout literature and BSA is pretty clear about how things should get done. So no real need to interpret any “legealeseeâ€Â.

 

You did the right thing and looked up the definition of auspice, and as you can tell it does not mean that all requirements must be done as part of a pre-planned scout activity put on by some adult or as part of a group.

 

Very few scout troops would be able to have a program that is robust enough for a scout to earn the National Outdoor Medal, and BSA knows that. So individual effort is not only expected, but encouraged. Isn’t that what we are trying to do in developing these boys to become men?

 

Continue to encourage and coach your son to earn this award, it’s a great long range goal!

 

[5yearscouter]

"under the auspicies of the BSA"does not = everything you do as a scout is a scout activity. This award is designed not as a 1 and done or with built in shortcuts, or even that it were to be EASY and everyone in the troop can earn it without trying. I see it as something your long term scouts can earn, when they've already gotten all their mbs and ranks so they focus on taking it up a notch to finish up one of the rocker thingies or the pins. not something your 11 year old scout will get in a year or even two.

 

If you were to add up the miles for trail to 1st class hike, hiking mb, backpacking mb, plus hikes done usually thru the year and at summer camp you should come close to enough miles for the award if you are an avid hiker and participated in these events.

 

If you were to add up the miles for getting hiking mb and bike mb, plus your troop goes on maybe a horseback ride or biking activities every year and you were interested enough to participate in these events, then you could get the award.

 

If you were to add up the hours in the water for trail to 1st class swimming, swimming mb, lifesaving mb, canoeing, kayaking, motorboating, sailing mb--to show that you were an avid what would that be? it's not just avid boater, but that's a huge part of the hours, then you could get that award.

 

If you have to count everything you do in life since you are a scout so it must count-in order to come up with the miles/hours you need for this award, then the award doesn't mean anything.

 

[Basementdweller]

KDD. Suggest you get yourself a copy of the advancement guide and read it from cover to cover. There are a lot of opinions on this forum. Often these oppinions blead over to pratices in a scout troop and the past 100 years of BSA experience in putting on a program for the development of scouts go’s out the window.

 

I’m no expert, so I read the Boy Scout literature and BSA is pretty clear about how things should get done. So no real need to interpret any “legealeseeâ€Â.

 

You did the right thing and looked up the definition of auspice, and as you can tell it does not mean that all requirements must be done as part of a pre-planned scout activity put on by some adult or as part of a group.

 

Very few scout troops would be able to have a program that is robust enough for a scout to earn the National Outdoor Medal, and BSA knows that. So individual effort is not only expected, but encouraged. Isn’t that what we are trying to do in developing these boys to become men?

 

Continue to encourage and coach your son to earn this award, it’s a great long range goal!

I wish you would research before posting because your simply wrong......

 

Here is a link to ask the expert at Bryan on scouting discussion what "Under the Auspice means.....

 

http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2012/06/07/ask-the-expert-interpreting-camping-merit-badge-requirement-9a/comment-page-1/

 

Next it says, “at designated Scouting activities or events.†This means the experiences are held under the auspices of some level of the BSA, and that “Scouting†happens on them. For example, an individual family or a couple of Scouts and their parents heading off into the woods doesn’t count.

 

So family camping trips, hiking sailing canoeing or summers spent at the pool don't count.

[Basementdweller]

KDD. Suggest you get yourself a copy of the advancement guide and read it from cover to cover. There are a lot of opinions on this forum. Often these oppinions blead over to pratices in a scout troop and the past 100 years of BSA experience in putting on a program for the development of scouts go’s out the window.

 

I’m no expert, so I read the Boy Scout literature and BSA is pretty clear about how things should get done. So no real need to interpret any “legealeseeâ€Â.

 

You did the right thing and looked up the definition of auspice, and as you can tell it does not mean that all requirements must be done as part of a pre-planned scout activity put on by some adult or as part of a group.

 

Very few scout troops would be able to have a program that is robust enough for a scout to earn the National Outdoor Medal, and BSA knows that. So individual effort is not only expected, but encouraged. Isn’t that what we are trying to do in developing these boys to become men?

 

Continue to encourage and coach your son to earn this award, it’s a great long range goal!

here is another discussion of under the auspices.

 

http://netcommissioner.com/askandy/2010/07/issue-221-july-14-2010/

 

 

So, what does this tell us…? First, it tells us that family camping doesn’t count because it’s not “under the auspices of the BSA.†But it also tells us that any camping “under the auspices of the BSA†absolutely does count, whether with one’s own troop, with another troop, at one’s council summer camp or another council’s summer camp, a Camporee or Jamboree, or a special event held by a district or council (e.g., overnight Klondike Derby, etc.).

 

So, if everyone just reads and then sticks with the exact language of any requirement and doesn’t attempt to put any sort of special spin or further qualification on it, and doesn’t try to operate from a decades-old memory, all’s well that ends well.