Council respect for volunteer time (or lack thereof)

[gumbymaster]

While I could certainly be missing something here, here is my take ...

 

GM agreed to be HELPFUL to her pack and take on a job of some responsibility. She did not enter this job with the intent of creating problems and the pack considered her TRUSTWORTHY enough to trust her with some control over the pack funds, and to be responsible in that role. While she may, or may not have been overzealous, that trust was not misplaced.

 

GM was put into a position she was uncomfortable with, and tried to do what she thought was right. We should all be so BRAVE.

 

Ok, so she did not blindly accept from others with a clear interest in the status quo that this was not a problem. - ok she wasn't OBEDIENT/LOYAL. But I would not blindly accept the word of the Council or others either. Heck, I had a long discussion with my insurance agent over additional personal liability insurance when I agreed to be the CM for my pack.

 

When given conflicting statements of who was responsible to resolve an issue, CO vs. unit, she reasonably sought out advice (presumably on her own dime, THRIFTY for the pack) and while that advice may not have been correct, it was not malicious or ill intentioned. Her adviser was probably unaware of the nuances of how scout units are organized and chartered for just these types of reasons.

 

She didn't threaten or blackmail anyone, when confronted with the situation she was uncomfortable with, she worked to remove herself from the situation and provide the appropriate information to appropriate people. We can argue that as Treasurer, her responsibility may have stopped when she told the CC - obviously she felt that that would fall on deaf ears. I would never presume to stop one of my parents with concerns about myself or my CC from going to the CO/COR.

 

She wasn't aware of the (potential) political repercussions of doing what she thought was the correct and legal way to resolve the issue. So what. It is not her resposibility to change doing what she thinks is right or wrong because of political considerations or the risk (no matter how big) of doing what she believes is right. While it probably could have been done without the cover letter, providing the appropriate tax information to the CO probably was what she should have done. Now I need to check and see if my own unit has been doing this. For most COs, this is just closing the loop, not creating a tax issue. Maybe she could have also just reported the information for the year of her responsibility, and not worried about prior years. As correctly stated, packs generally do not file their own taxes as they are not in of themselves legal entities, so raising the issue of prior years may have made people incorrectly and overly concerned, but again it was not malicious.

 

The Council/DE failed to be COURTEOUS or KIND to GM in trying to offer a reasonable explanation of this is (apparently) a non-issue. Having already submitted the information, I'm not even sure what anyone hoped to gain by bullying her in this way.

 

Some members of our happy campfire were also unkind and discourteous in how they responded to a forum post created from genuine concern of the problem. I mean really - I see nothing in what she did that makes Scouting a better program without her. Other members of this forum were more HELPFUL in trying to convey why this isn't really an issue, and if this could have been communicated from the start, there would probably be less of an issue for everyone involved.

 

While I find nothing CHEERFUL in this situation or thread, GM if you are still watching this thread, I thank you and personally respect your efforts. I wish there would have been a more reasoned resolution for both sides sake.

 

As for suggestions that we should have left her post deleted, or remove the thread - I disagree. We cannot learn from the situation, and it is bound to be repeated some day, if the correct answers are unavailable for searching.

 

Yours in Scouting

[Basementdweller]

The tone of the original email was belligerent....she was looking for a fight when she posted it....

 

She has no idea about selfless service.......The BSA doesn't care about its volunteers....there are probably a couple of hundred thousand a crossed the country. and honestly why do I care if the BSA cares??????

 

I am in the program for my boys.....nothing more or less.....I don't expect to become rich or famous from it......heck I don't even expect a thank you any more... i received a fortune in a cookie a while ago it read, He who expects no gratitude shall never be disappointed.

[gumbymaster]

The tone of the original email was belligerent....she was looking for a fight when she posted it....

 

She has no idea about selfless service.......The BSA doesn't care about its volunteers....there are probably a couple of hundred thousand a crossed the country. and honestly why do I care if the BSA cares??????

 

I am in the program for my boys.....nothing more or less.....I don't expect to become rich or famous from it......heck I don't even expect a thank you any more... i received a fortune in a cookie a while ago it read, He who expects no gratitude shall never be disappointed.

I just reread her post and first response, and I just didn't see it that way.

 

GM did sound a little bitter, as could be expected of someone who felt they had been "Thrown under the bus.". Only the Title of the post and the dig at the council office and popcorn felt belligerent to me.

 

She wasn't expecting fame or riches for her service.

 

Maybe she posted here hoping to get some form of "you did right", and found that the forum generally shared the opinion of her Council and CC rather than her, but I think there were kinder ways for us to collectively educate on the issue.

 

By the time she wrote, it seems the die was cast - what value do we present by also being belligerent. How many future contributors have we stunned into silence with the ferocity of our response.

 

We are Scouts. Even if she was rude in the question, and I still don't think she was, we still have a duty to respond courteously.

[Basementdweller]

The tone of the original email was belligerent....she was looking for a fight when she posted it....

 

She has no idea about selfless service.......The BSA doesn't care about its volunteers....there are probably a couple of hundred thousand a crossed the country. and honestly why do I care if the BSA cares??????

 

I am in the program for my boys.....nothing more or less.....I don't expect to become rich or famous from it......heck I don't even expect a thank you any more... i received a fortune in a cookie a while ago it read, He who expects no gratitude shall never be disappointed.

A courteous first post with a question would have received a courteous response...

 

Reap what ya sow.

[King Ding Dong]

I read this thread again and only found two members that I would consider flamed GM before she deleted. Brewmeister and our good friend BD. Those of us who on here frequently know that BD is just that way and his bark is worse than his bite. He can sure dish it out, but he can take it as well. Courteous responses just are not in his nature most days. In my opinion she was not ganged up on at all, just barked at by a couple our more rabid members. I believe everyone else was courteous in their response. Unfortunately, she was already burned out on the program for the same reasons I originally engaged her in conversation and it certainly took a different direction I intended. I am sure she has left the room. The lesson here is when you vent, expect people to vent right back at you.

[dedkad]

She obviously doesn't want to carry the guilt if she did end PTA/PTO sponsorship of packs and troops in Georgia. Too late now.......Honestly the BSA is better off without someone like her. She would have been a thorn in the side of what ever organization she would have been a part of.

I get the feeling that someone like that doesn't carry a lot of guilt. More like everyone else is in the wrong.

[blw2]

I read this thread again and only found two members that I would consider flamed GM before she deleted. Brewmeister and our good friend BD. Those of us who on here frequently know that BD is just that way and his bark is worse than his bite. He can sure dish it out, but he can take it as well. Courteous responses just are not in his nature most days. In my opinion she was not ganged up on at all, just barked at by a couple our more rabid members. I believe everyone else was courteous in their response. Unfortunately, she was already burned out on the program for the same reasons I originally engaged her in conversation and it certainly took a different direction I intended. I am sure she has left the room. The lesson here is when you vent, expect people to vent right back at you.

good points KDD..... a drop of gasoline can ruin a whole lot of water.....

perception is projection

..... and all of that.....

and I'm sure that on some level even the loud barkers you mention are just trying to be helpful in the way they themselves would like to be helped.

 

last year our treasurer left (son aged out of the pack). When there wasn't an obvious replacement, I considered stepping up and saying I would do it to help, but thought better of getting my hands in the money. That's a potentially volatile place to be for sure!

[Pack18Alex]

I read this thread again and only found two members that I would consider flamed GM before she deleted. Brewmeister and our good friend BD. Those of us who on here frequently know that BD is just that way and his bark is worse than his bite. He can sure dish it out, but he can take it as well. Courteous responses just are not in his nature most days. In my opinion she was not ganged up on at all, just barked at by a couple our more rabid members. I believe everyone else was courteous in their response. Unfortunately, she was already burned out on the program for the same reasons I originally engaged her in conversation and it certainly took a different direction I intended. I am sure she has left the room. The lesson here is when you vent, expect people to vent right back at you.

I think you have a situation with a stay-at-home mom that thought of herself as more of an alpha mom (hence her "left a 6 figure job to work from home and be with her kids" comment, while disparaging the PTA president as a "stay at home mom"). She thinks that she's smarter than everyone else involved in the BSA program, she disparages their careers, their lives, etc.

 

This might all be true. But it made her a bad soldier.

 

She thought that the status quo was wrong, she suggested changing it. Once everyone with authority to do it said no, she needed to drop the idea of CHANGING IT. If she thinks that she has personal liability from her few months as treasurer, then she needs to quietly remove herself from that personal liability, with minimum interference.

 

Instead she used the excuse of "personal liability" to attempt to force her view after it was rejected. The Committee Chair told her no, she used her "I need to avoid personal liability" to overrule the Committee Chair in a backhanded way, that was wrong.

 

Incidentally, on the facts of the matter, she's wrong, but that has nothing to do with how she handled the situation wrong.

 

Then she came here, blasted people in her area, and when people here defended them, blasted people here.

 

After that, she deleted her posts and ran away.

 

The problem is her, not the people here.

[JoeBob]

The tone of the original email was belligerent....she was looking for a fight when she posted it....

 

She has no idea about selfless service.......The BSA doesn't care about its volunteers....there are probably a couple of hundred thousand a crossed the country. and honestly why do I care if the BSA cares??????

 

I am in the program for my boys.....nothing more or less.....I don't expect to become rich or famous from it......heck I don't even expect a thank you any more... i received a fortune in a cookie a while ago it read, He who expects no gratitude shall never be disappointed.

BasementDweller, as one of the forum members who has learned to put up with your irascible nature in exchange for the good input that you sometimes provide, may I make a request?

 

Please treat people on the forum, especially tender new folks who come here in search of help, as politely as you would treat a new adult in your troop who just wants to help.

 

In the case of Georgia Mom you may have done some real harm to Scouting with your abrasive responses. Most of us think that the Ga PTA will probably not use this as a tool to drop charters, but if they do; I'm afraid that the responsibility will be as much yours as hers.

Instead of politely coaching her (Like mentoring a new SPL) to redirect her question to a more informed tax adviser using the correct parameters, you sided with the council and the DE (unfamiliar ground for you) and sent her running with her tail afire between her legs. And when she attempted to disengage by deleting her posts, you shot gasoline at her by re-posting her comments so that you could gloat some more.

 

Do you you think you improved her opinion of Scouting?

I hope that you didn't motivate her to stir up the state PTA even more...

 

For someone who always blasts others for their lack of 'selfless service', you sure blow a self-righteous horn.

 

JoeSpongeBob

a 'Self Absorbed Southerner'

[Basementdweller]

The tone of the original email was belligerent....she was looking for a fight when she posted it....

 

She has no idea about selfless service.......The BSA doesn't care about its volunteers....there are probably a couple of hundred thousand a crossed the country. and honestly why do I care if the BSA cares??????

 

I am in the program for my boys.....nothing more or less.....I don't expect to become rich or famous from it......heck I don't even expect a thank you any more... i received a fortune in a cookie a while ago it read, He who expects no gratitude shall never be disappointed.

Fair enough Joe bob....But I am not the one who has posted multiple times that I will be leaving scouting the second my son eagles. In another thread you wrote that you could careless the fate of the BSA as your son will be done in less than 5 years.......A completely selfish view.

 

I will continue to serve the boys of my neighborhood and unit as long as I am physically able.

 

I reposted not to gloat, but so the thread could remain complete....... I will continue to do so if the original poster on any thread deletes it regardless of topic.

[packsaddle]

OK, now that we're into the introspective, self-analysis phase, I have been watching all this with the 'fickle finger of fate' hovering, ready to pounce. GM seemed to be giving as good as she received but I sensed an expectation from the first post that she would get support from all you well-seasoned soldiers. She didn't. But she was plucky enough to continue to butt heads for a while. As I read her posts I sensed that she's good at that and I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing. But none of us wins all the battles and sometimes wisdom is expressed when we can make a good decision about which hill is the one we're willing to die for. She didn't seem to be good at that.

 

I'm not sure she gained from this experience, either.

 

 

 

All that said, I'm glad that I didn't apply the 'fickle finger of fate' but...wouldn't it have been great if everyone could have gained from the experience?

[frankpalazzi]

She obviously doesn't want to carry the guilt if she did end PTA/PTO sponsorship of packs and troops in Georgia. Too late now.......Honestly the BSA is better off without someone like her. She would have been a thorn in the side of what ever organization she would have been a part of.

 

Agree X 1000! You can explain things to certain types several times, and in several different ways, and they just......don't.....get it.

 

So as not to lose our heads over this (as is what seems to be happening) here are the facts:

 

1. The Pack/Troop is an extension of the Chartered Organization and is included in their financial "umbrella". The scout unit is not, and never has been a financial entity itself.

2. The treasurer does NOT get involved with tax filings of any type. Bank accounts should absolutely be of a "non interest earning" variety, and include the name of the CO on the account and checks. (We also used the CO's EIN number to open the accounts.)

3. The treasurer should provide at least annual financial reports to the CO, whether they want it or not. End of responsibility for Pack/Troop treasurer.

 

Georgia Mom, if you're still reading, here is the description of what your job title was, as opposed to what you thought it was

http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Pack_Treasurer#Treasurer