LGBT: Critical Mass?

[Scouter99]

Admittedly, this thread has wandered far away.

 

Stupid question: You have a member's parent who is in a deeply committed relationship. What do the exact particulars of that relationship have to do with his being a Scouter?

 

What really does sex have to do with Scouting? Please answer that first for different-gender sex. Nothing whatsoever, right?

 

So what does same-gender sex have to do with Scouting? Nothing whatsoever, right?

 

So just what is the difference supposed to be? Huh?

 

Here is a basic principle that we had to make maximum use of while I provided training services during my official expulsion for atheism: A parent is always welcome to a meeting involving his own child. So gay parents are always welcome, including in den meetings and on campouts.

 

And if the gay parent has a practical skill to teach, then what? Ignore that valuable resource? Or make use of it? Again harking back to the Penn and Teller Bullshit! episode on BSA, there was a campout set up with gay and non-gay scouts in which, as I recall, the gay scouts out-performed the non-gay scouts. So you ignore what the gay scouts have to teach you?

 

As for the issue of sex education, I remember a memorable quote from the then-Governor of Mississippi (AKA, "missisloppy" by those, like myself, who had been stationed there) in the mid-to-late 1990's. He was a strong advocate of educational reform. In support for his position on education reform, he said: "We have already tried ignorance, so we know that that does not work." So now the Republicans are doubling down on ignorance -- it didn't work then, so it won't work now either.

Again harking back to the Penn and Teller Bullshit! episode on BSA, there was a campout set up with gay and non-gay scouts in which, as I recall, the gay scouts out-performed the non-gay scouts. So you ignore what the gay scouts have to teach you?

Are you serious right now?

[acco40]

Yes, I feel that the "gay" issue has hit critical mass due to the fact that it will not be going away. Kahuna compared the issue to "women's rights" which I think is apt. I think that we as a society, will also find out that this will both have unforeseen benefits and negative consequences - just like the changing perceptions of what the role of women in society ought to be. With more women in the workforce, they are less dependent on someone else as a provider - that has boosted divorce rates and increased the amount of children raised in single parent homes. It also allowed many women to leave abusive relationships and has added an immense critical addition to our workforce expanding productivity.

 

 

 

Anyone care to predict the effects that societal acceptance of gay marriage will have on our culture? I can't really think of much negative effects myself.

[DWise1]

Admittedly, this thread has wandered far away.

 

Stupid question: You have a member's parent who is in a deeply committed relationship. What do the exact particulars of that relationship have to do with his being a Scouter?

 

What really does sex have to do with Scouting? Please answer that first for different-gender sex. Nothing whatsoever, right?

 

So what does same-gender sex have to do with Scouting? Nothing whatsoever, right?

 

So just what is the difference supposed to be? Huh?

 

Here is a basic principle that we had to make maximum use of while I provided training services during my official expulsion for atheism: A parent is always welcome to a meeting involving his own child. So gay parents are always welcome, including in den meetings and on campouts.

 

And if the gay parent has a practical skill to teach, then what? Ignore that valuable resource? Or make use of it? Again harking back to the Penn and Teller Bullshit! episode on BSA, there was a campout set up with gay and non-gay scouts in which, as I recall, the gay scouts out-performed the non-gay scouts. So you ignore what the gay scouts have to teach you?

 

As for the issue of sex education, I remember a memorable quote from the then-Governor of Mississippi (AKA, "missisloppy" by those, like myself, who had been stationed there) in the mid-to-late 1990's. He was a strong advocate of educational reform. In support for his position on education reform, he said: "We have already tried ignorance, so we know that that does not work." So now the Republicans are doubling down on ignorance -- it didn't work then, so it won't work now either.

Are you serious right now?

Quite serious. Scoutcraft is not affected by sexual orientation nor religious belief. Watch the episode for yourself.

[DWise1]

Yes, I feel that the "gay" issue has hit critical mass due to the fact that it will not be going away. Kahuna compared the issue to "women's rights" which I think is apt. I think that we as a society, will also find out that this will both have unforeseen benefits and negative consequences - just like the changing perceptions of what the role of women in society ought to be. With more women in the workforce, they are less dependent on someone else as a provider - that has boosted divorce rates and increased the amount of children raised in single parent homes. It also allowed many women to leave abusive relationships and has added an immense critical addition to our workforce expanding productivity.

 

 

 

Anyone care to predict the effects that societal acceptance of gay marriage will have on our culture? I can't really think of much negative effects myself.

I certainly cannot think of any negative effects.

 

Positive effects would be far fewer families operating at an unnecessary disadvantage and in danger of being torn apart by anti-same-sex marriage laws. About a year ago I listened to a report on All Things Considered (NPR) in which same-sex families were visiting Washington, DC, to personally lobby their congressmen and senators for support. The most pressing concern for most of the families was that the parents lost all parental rights in a state that didn't recognize or banned same-sex marriages. That meant that if any of their children were to have to go to the emergency room or come to the attention of the authorities, then all their children would be taken away from them and placed in foster care.

 

Societal acceptance of gay marriage means the preservation of families.

[walk in the woods]

Yes, I feel that the "gay" issue has hit critical mass due to the fact that it will not be going away. Kahuna compared the issue to "women's rights" which I think is apt. I think that we as a society, will also find out that this will both have unforeseen benefits and negative consequences - just like the changing perceptions of what the role of women in society ought to be. With more women in the workforce, they are less dependent on someone else as a provider - that has boosted divorce rates and increased the amount of children raised in single parent homes. It also allowed many women to leave abusive relationships and has added an immense critical addition to our workforce expanding productivity.

 

 

 

Anyone care to predict the effects that societal acceptance of gay marriage will have on our culture? I can't really think of much negative effects myself.

Well, there are a couple of polygamist law suits working through the courts. They are picking up and using the same rhetoric as the gay-marriage movement. Now that DOMA is dead, that definition is left to the states. If what people do in their private bedrooms is private, and of no regard to the state, should they not be entitled to all the rights, privileges and responsibilities as heterosexual and homosexual couples? Why should family be defined as two adults and children? Why not three adults and children? As long as it's consensual and all.....

[rdclements]

Protecting the right of gay people to get married should be a conservative issue. You've go two people, in a committed relationship, who want to get married and raise a family together, taking equal responsibility for their children. This is what conservatives have campaigned for for many years.

[Eagledad]

Protecting the right of gay people to get married should be a conservative issue. You've go two people, in a committed relationship, who want to get married and raise a family together, taking equal responsibility for their children. This is what conservatives have campaigned for for many years.

A healthy family relationship, which is mother and father. Barry

[Hal_Crawford]

Protecting the right of gay people to get married should be a conservative issue. You've go two people, in a committed relationship, who want to get married and raise a family together, taking equal responsibility for their children. This is what conservatives have campaigned for for many years.

I know some healthy family relationships where there are two moms or two dads. I also have known some really unhealthy ones where there was a mom and a dad and some of those got better when one or the other left.

[acco40]

I don't think polygamy will be an issue. If gay marriage is universally allowed, all adults now have an equal chance to choose a singular life partner so I don't think a man who want to marry a 12 year old or a woman who wants to marry a horse or polygamy or any other such nonsense will be an issue.

[NJCubScouter]

I don't think polygamy will be an issue. If gay marriage is universally allowed, all adults now have an equal chance to choose a singular life partner so I don't think a man who want to marry a 12 year old or a woman who wants to marry a horse or polygamy or any other such nonsense will be an issue.

Account, that distinction - two adult humans vs. any other kind of relationship - is so clear to me and you, it amazes me that it isn't clear to everybody else.

 

 

 

Well, it doesn't really amaze me.

[Eagledad]

Protecting the right of gay people to get married should be a conservative issue. You've go two people, in a committed relationship, who want to get married and raise a family together, taking equal responsibility for their children. This is what conservatives have campaigned for for many years.

Yes, I saw a picture of a two headed snake once, but that isn't normal. All things being equal, a healthy family starts with a mom and dad. Barry

[moosetracker]

Protecting the right of gay people to get married should be a conservative issue. You've go two people, in a committed relationship, who want to get married and raise a family together, taking equal responsibility for their children. This is what conservatives have campaigned for for many years.

Perhaps in your narrow minded view of the world Eagledad, but seriously you should get out more.. Children grow in a secure environment be it a mom or Dad, a single mom or a single dad, two moms or two dads, grandparents.. Does it need a marriage certificate, in some ways no, in some ways yes.. They need to feel secure that if something happens to one parent they can continue life with the other parent.. The home the family grew up in will not be ripped away from under them because the parent who died was the one owning the home.. That they are recognized as belonging to both parents so that they don't run into one parent having the health benefits through their job, but unable to put the children on those benefits because the children legally are seen as belonging to the other parent. I am sure there are other benefits laws that recognize their family unit help the children to feel more safe and secure, but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

[Eagledad]

I don't think polygamy will be an issue. If gay marriage is universally allowed, all adults now have an equal chance to choose a singular life partner so I don't think a man who want to marry a 12 year old or a woman who wants to marry a horse or polygamy or any other such nonsense will be an issue.

It amazes me that some people consider the desire for a mate of the same sex as more mature than the desires of any other kind of relationship. Folks keep wanting to equalize homosexuality as a normal healthy lifestyle when my observations of friends and family are anything but. Oh sure, some gays find a stable relastionship, but that isn't normal for that lifestyle. On the whole, gays are some of the loneliest people I know.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I don't think polygamy will be an issue. If gay marriage is universally allowed, all adults now have an equal chance to choose a singular life partner so I don't think a man who want to marry a 12 year old or a woman who wants to marry a horse or polygamy or any other such nonsense will be an issue.

I'm amazed you don't see that as an argument in favor of gay marriage.

[Stosh]

Gee, if it takes a village to raise a child, then what's wrong with polygamy? There is a lot of credible evidence in the Bible to support it. After all the 12 Tribes of Israel were conceived by 2 wives and 2 concubines. Of course that's the Old Testament, but the New Testament only says the bishops should be of one wife.

 

Only in a country of "freedom of religion" is a territory required to abandon their religious practices in order to obtain statehood. (Utah)

 

Surely a country based on hypocrisy can always find ways to alienate various parts of it's culture.