Jewish Scouting and the Reform Movement

[jasper18]

This may not be the right place for this question, but I am a Cub Scout parent so this is where I look for posts... I notice there are some Jewish scouters on this forum. Have you ever experienced issues with scouts who are Reform Jews and their congregations not supporting BSA? Where I am, the Reform synagogue will have nothing to do with BSA - no Scout Shabbat, no presentation of religious emblems, no Eagle Scout projects can be done, etc. Has that been an issue where you are? Do you have any Reform scouts in your pack?

[packsaddle]

I'm not Jewish but I AM interested in learning why the synagogue doesn't have anything to do with BSA. Could you expand on that a bit?

 

We had Jewish boys in the pack and the troop but I don't know enough about the various 'flavors' of Judaism to know if they were Reform or some other 'flavor'. Help me out with that, if you can, as well.

[jasper18]

I'm not Jewish but I AM interested in learning why the synagogue doesn't have anything to do with BSA. Could you expand on that a bit?

 

We had Jewish boys in the pack and the troop but I don't know enough about the various 'flavors' of Judaism to know if they were Reform or some other 'flavor'. Help me out with that, if you can, as well.

Here is a link that does a pretty good job explaining the position of the Reform movement on BSA: http://rac.org/Articles/index.cfm?id=3231

 

This is an excerpt from the letter that was sent out by the Commission on Social Action of the Union of American Hebrew Congregations in 2000 after the Supreme Court ruling on inclusion of Gay Scouts and leaders:

"In its new policy, which was mailed out to congregations this week, the CSA reached the painful decision to recommend that congregations sponsoring or housing troops/packs withdraw sponsorship and/or stop housing those troops/pack s effective immediately and that families remove their children from other scout troops. However, we understand that many are not ready or able to make that decision and prefer to continue to work from change from within. Therefore, the memo also details a number of protest actions congregations can take, while retaining a working relationship with the Boy Scouts of America."

 

As for the different types of Jewish beliefs, I don't want to set myself up as any kind of expert, but in a nutshell, it is like the various denominations within Christianity. Jewish congregations in our area are part of the Reform, Conservative, Orthodox, Reconstruction or Humanist movements. They all have slightly different interpretations of Jewish law and its requirements as well as liturgical differences. Some would tell you that the Orthodox represent the most observant and it is true that they have beliefs that most greatly affect visible decisions around keeping the Sabbath, keeping kosher, appearance, etc.

 

Hope that helps...

[00Eagle]

I'll keep this short for now but may expand upon it later. If Private Messages worked,, jasper18, I'd send you my contact information as I'm glad to commiserate and share advice. I'm chairman of my council's recently restarted Jewish Committee on Scouting (they suckered me into it).

 

Jasper18: I've pretty much seen everything you say and more. The reform movement's been quite hostile to us over the past decade plus. I'm ex-Reform myself, switching over once the condemnation policy came out during my college days (just switched which room at Hillel I sat in).

 

With few exceptions, Reform and Conservative* synagogues will not touch scouting with a ten foot pole. Any units chartered are either the result of a long standing relationship between the unit and the synagogue or, in rare cases, senior synagogue leadership were proponents of scouting. In nearly all cases, expect a little "dig" on the bottom of the units webpage expressing opposition to the BSA membership policy.

 

While there is little support for scouting in the institutions, Jewish kids are still in scouting. if their families are non-observant, they tend to fit in well in community units. We do still have friends in the community. I'm finding there are rabbis with kids in scouting, still.

 

If I have time, I'll come back and share more details later.

 

 

*=Conservative has no official statement as Reform, but are mostly expressing the same sentiment. I've had luck in holding Scout Shabbat and religious emblems workshops in conservative synagogues and might have two that might host a unit if i can find a leader.

[Pack18Alex]

I think that there are large cultural issues with the demographics within the Reform movement and scouting, that have nothing to do with gay issues. Between family expectations, the outdoors component, saluting flags and national service, etc., I don't see the Reform movement showing any interest in a gender based organization built around traditional American values. Like 00Eagle, I grew up Reform, and its just not the direction of them.

 

I mean, the membership policy is a reason not to charter units. However, refusing to acknowledge the religious accomplishments of the children within your congregation because you don't share values with a supporting organization... their priorities are simply not built around family and youth anymore.

[Pack18Alex]

I think that there are large cultural issues with the demographics within the Reform movement and scouting, that have nothing to do with gay issues. Between family expectations, the outdoors component, saluting flags and national service, etc., I don't see the Reform movement showing any interest in a gender based organization built around traditional American values. Like 00Eagle, I grew up Reform, and its just not the direction of them.

 

I mean, the membership policy is a reason not to charter units. However, refusing to acknowledge the religious accomplishments of the children within your congregation because you don't share values with a supporting organization... their priorities are simply not built around family and youth anymore.

As an example, my parents Synagogue still has a NFTY youth group... Checking out their Facebook group, many of the leaders attended one of the local Catholic schools.

 

The Reform movement has far less to disagree with BSA than the Roman Catholic Church, yet no shunning of their accomplishments with an organization that they have less in common with. Reform's animosity with Scouting may have been launched over gay rights issues, but its gone well beyond that.

[00Eagle]

I think that there are large cultural issues with the demographics within the Reform movement and scouting, that have nothing to do with gay issues. Between family expectations, the outdoors component, saluting flags and national service, etc., I don't see the Reform movement showing any interest in a gender based organization built around traditional American values. Like 00Eagle, I grew up Reform, and its just not the direction of them.

 

I mean, the membership policy is a reason not to charter units. However, refusing to acknowledge the religious accomplishments of the children within your congregation because you don't share values with a supporting organization... their priorities are simply not built around family and youth anymore.

True,the all-boy nature of scouting (at younger ages) does seem to also pose problems with egalitarian synagogues. I'm not sure even local option (short of full inclusion) will bring them back into the fold. Though marketing it as "Make sure that your synagogue's troop is one of the welcoming ones" might work. Reform would be the easiest to deal with in terms of religious observance. They could host a unit for the community (just like the Methodist Men), unlike a Conservative synagogue which would probably insist on full observance, even though the bulk of Conservative laity is non-observant (I'm one of these, a CINO if you will).

 

I do plan on hosting a Scout Shabbat and Emblems workshop at a Reform synagogue this year, if I can. I have some good contacts, the outgoing rabbi is a fan of scouts, I have a scoutparent/jewish committee member on the Hebrew School faculty who introduced me to the 2nd VP of the synagoue (a local cubmaster, too!!!).

 

Ever since Mortimer Schiff bankrolled the fledgling BSA and served as a founding vice president, American Jews have been involved in scouting. And we will remain in scouting. Scouting as an institution is too important to abandon it to the Gentiles.

[Pack18Alex]

I think that there are large cultural issues with the demographics within the Reform movement and scouting, that have nothing to do with gay issues. Between family expectations, the outdoors component, saluting flags and national service, etc., I don't see the Reform movement showing any interest in a gender based organization built around traditional American values. Like 00Eagle, I grew up Reform, and its just not the direction of them.

 

I mean, the membership policy is a reason not to charter units. However, refusing to acknowledge the religious accomplishments of the children within your congregation because you don't share values with a supporting organization... their priorities are simply not built around family and youth anymore.

Scouts is too jingoistic, religious, and authoritian for Reform. The single gender nature doesn't agree with egalitarianism, the faith component is too separatist for them, and the fact that Bears and Webelos can accomplish their faith requirement via Jewish emblems that are too traditional for their leadership makes scouts a non starter.

 

The requirement of faith in a deity is going to be too restrictive, the fact that one is only permitted to earn a single religion's emblem doesn't jive with their interfaith focus, etc.

 

I just don't see the Reform movement dropping its antagonism in any scenario. Indeed, with the emphasis on Saturday morning being 100% about the Bar/Bat Mitzvah, I just don't see Scout Shabbat being welcome, it's just not the direction of the rabbinic program, the clergy, or to be honest, the laity.

 

I wish you success, I just think you are paddling upstream. I would find an open minded her traditional conservative synagogue to host your program.

 

The decision if Chabad to open nearly free Hebrew Schools and Bar Mitzvah programs has totally annihilated the youth programs at the Reform Temples here, so they have double downed on empty nesters, gay couples, and the childless.

 

It is a shame, because with a focus on serving ones religion and country. It's a great fit for Reform, and a lousy fit for Orthodoxy, yet the scouting growth in our council is the two Orthodox Packs, without a single Reform or Conservative one. Our council leadership is hoping to return to the non orthodox synagogues with the new membership guidelines.

 

And lets face it, scouting is way too blue collar and hands on for the Reform membership.

 

I hope I'm wrong, I think it could revitalize the youth departments at the Reform Temples, I just don't see any interest... The Non Orthodox Jewish population is aging, and reform is following the demographic trends, which is away from youth and towards middle age and elderly.

 

Rabbi Yoffie made a bug show of revitalizing a more tradition oriented reform, but I don't see movement on the ground.

[qwazse]

View from the goyim side: many decades ago, I began to get my head around Jewish culture once I left my small town to attend Pitt. I met folks who identified as conservatives, orthodox, reformed, etc... . One day, at lunch, I introduced a reformed young lady to a Christian Jew . I didn't bring up religion, but the last names kinda gave it away, so she asked about his story (which was mixed marriage parents, pretty devoted but never pushing their kids one way or the other, so in high school he came to the conclusion that he could be both). As soon as she found out, she lit into him (not in a mean way, but very sincerely): "You can be Buddhist and Jewish, you can be atheist and Jewish, but you're not allowed to be Christian and Jewish!" I nearly laughed myself off the cafeteria chair!

 

So, the notion of a body of reformed Jews making sweeping recommendations against an organization that was veering too much into the conservative Christian camp is not too far fetched based on my encounters with some of the sect's more outspoken adherents. Although, to be honest, I never asked my friend what she thought of scouting. And have since met enough folks from each of the major sects to know that one size does not fit all!

 

Anyway, it's the "boots on the ground" who will change anything. If there are enough adults and youth in your congregation who experienced Scouting and your Rabbi agrees,.you'll be able to charter a unit. If not, you'll bump into walls like these.

[00Eagle]

I think that there are large cultural issues with the demographics within the Reform movement and scouting, that have nothing to do with gay issues. Between family expectations, the outdoors component, saluting flags and national service, etc., I don't see the Reform movement showing any interest in a gender based organization built around traditional American values. Like 00Eagle, I grew up Reform, and its just not the direction of them.

 

I mean, the membership policy is a reason not to charter units. However, refusing to acknowledge the religious accomplishments of the children within your congregation because you don't share values with a supporting organization... their priorities are simply not built around family and youth anymore.

I actually got approval to hold a Friday night Scout Shabbat (joint GS/BS) from the shul president via the 2nd VP. They seemed pretty enthusiastic and supportive.

 

I have heard a Reform rabbi echo some of your comments especially the Duty to G-d in the oath. He felt it was exclusive of non-monotheists. It's not, obviously, as we have emblem awards for Hindus and Buddhists.

 

Last year we had two egalitarian Conservative congregations host Scout Shabbat and religious emblems workshops. I plan to continue that and add another Congregation to the mix as my rabbi has a new synagogue so he'll host us. The new rabbi at my old synagogue is also a former scout, so we'll be able to continue or programs there.

 

Venturing would probably work well as an addon to the NFTY/USY programs. I've heard complaints that being involved as an officer in a youth group wasn't resume building and many felt they had no program other than attending regional dances. With politics being what they are, that will never happen.

[Pack18Alex]

I think that there are large cultural issues with the demographics within the Reform movement and scouting, that have nothing to do with gay issues. Between family expectations, the outdoors component, saluting flags and national service, etc., I don't see the Reform movement showing any interest in a gender based organization built around traditional American values. Like 00Eagle, I grew up Reform, and its just not the direction of them.

 

I mean, the membership policy is a reason not to charter units. However, refusing to acknowledge the religious accomplishments of the children within your congregation because you don't share values with a supporting organization... their priorities are simply not built around family and youth anymore.

"Reform would be the easiest to deal with in terms of religious observance"

 

Most of my Unit is non observant, but a handful are. As we are an openly Jewish Unit, we observe dietary laws and Shabbat at Scout events. Parents making phone calls on Shabbat are asked to step out of the camp site, the Unit meals are all Kosher, etc. Individual families do what they want, but as a Unit, we observe, which lets the observant and non-observant kids participate jointly and fully. As I've said to parents joining, we don't hold events on Shabbat, but if a Scout goes to a District Event on Saturday and wins an award, I'll present it at the Pack Meeting, which has gone over very well with my observant and non-observant families.

 

"I do plan on hosting a Scout Shabbat and Emblems workshop at a Reform synagogue this year, if I can."

 

Absolutely terrific, and a great way to include Jewish Scouts and their place of worship.

 

To avoid religious politics, we self chartered, BTW, formed a State Non Profit (too small of money to pursue 501©3, formed to support Jewish Scouting in our area) and chartered to that. We have met in a local Synagogue, and have extensive relationships with the Youth Program there (my attempts to reach out to the other nearby Synagogues have gone nowhere), but by not being chartered there, I'm not giving the Rabbi authority over our actions. We have a Chaplain for our Pack, another Rabbi whose son was involved an is happy to help, but self chartering simplified the politics. We're contemplating getting chartered to the Synagogue we meet at's Youth Department, but we're terrified of what would happen if they tried to exert control.

 

However, I'm going to take your idea, and reach out to the other neighborhood Packs/Troops. If they have any Jewish Scouts that attend our local Conservative Synagogue, reach out to host an emblem workshop there, that might be much better than the status quo in the Council Office, which is a 45 minute drive for my Unit.

 

"Venturing would probably work well as an addon to the NFTY/USY programs. I've heard complaints that being involved as an officer in a youth group wasn't resume building" -- there is a rub, high schoolers that are looking to go to elite colleges are interested in resume building. Getting involved in Scouting as a High Schooler is a non-starter for that socio-economic group.

 

The only people I knew that "made Eagle" did all their Merit Badges in Middle School. All that was left for Scouting in High school was fun activities and Eagle Project. The time commitment for a high schooler that would interfere with other activities was too much.

[Pack18Alex]

I think that there are large cultural issues with the demographics within the Reform movement and scouting, that have nothing to do with gay issues. Between family expectations, the outdoors component, saluting flags and national service, etc., I don't see the Reform movement showing any interest in a gender based organization built around traditional American values. Like 00Eagle, I grew up Reform, and its just not the direction of them.

 

I mean, the membership policy is a reason not to charter units. However, refusing to acknowledge the religious accomplishments of the children within your congregation because you don't share values with a supporting organization... their priorities are simply not built around family and youth anymore.

"I actually got approval to hold a Friday night Scout Shabbat (joint GS/BS) from the shul president via the 2nd VP. They seemed pretty enthusiastic and supportive."

 

That's terrific and a very creative solution!

[qwazse]

I think that there are large cultural issues with the demographics within the Reform movement and scouting, that have nothing to do with gay issues. Between family expectations, the outdoors component, saluting flags and national service, etc., I don't see the Reform movement showing any interest in a gender based organization built around traditional American values. Like 00Eagle, I grew up Reform, and its just not the direction of them.

 

I mean, the membership policy is a reason not to charter units. However, refusing to acknowledge the religious accomplishments of the children within your congregation because you don't share values with a supporting organization... their priorities are simply not built around family and youth anymore.

"Venturing would probably work well as an addon to the NFTY/USY programs. I've heard complaints that being involved as an officer in a youth group wasn't resume building ..."

 

This is very true, but ... organizing a regional event while an officer in a youth group IS resume building. In my first encounter with a venturing officers' association, a young man (who happened to be Jewish) was organizing a council-wide shooting sports evening.

 

Since then I've seen venturers pull together all manner of activities that pull together dozens to hundreds of youth throughout the area (that includes "regional dances," which really do add value to some kids' lives.)

 

As usual, the patch on the sleeve translate into very little, but being able to say "You know those council ski days that attract thousands of youth every year? Well, that was me." That says loads about the caliber of the person writing the resume.

[00Eagle]

I think that there are large cultural issues with the demographics within the Reform movement and scouting, that have nothing to do with gay issues. Between family expectations, the outdoors component, saluting flags and national service, etc., I don't see the Reform movement showing any interest in a gender based organization built around traditional American values. Like 00Eagle, I grew up Reform, and its just not the direction of them.

 

I mean, the membership policy is a reason not to charter units. However, refusing to acknowledge the religious accomplishments of the children within your congregation because you don't share values with a supporting organization... their priorities are simply not built around family and youth anymore.

1.) I love your policies and accommodation of all levels of observance. As a JCoS chairman, I try to accommodate all levels as well: I won't email the committee on Shabbat, I won't hold a mandatory event on Shabbat, and if we have a lunch meeting, it'll be at a Kosher restaurant (except there are none with in my council's territory, we duck into a "border city"). On an individual basis, I will email/call particular committee members on Shabbat, put out a table at a Council event on Saturday, and have a planning meeting with a vice chairman or my council's Membership VP and staff advisor at a treif restaurant.

 

On the other hand I've seen units that say "if you're wearing our pack numbers on your sleeve, don't violate Shabbat or eat treif." Not a policy I can support, since district and council events are open to all scouts, regardless of unit affiliation. What are they supposed to do? Go in civvies or tape over their unit numbers?

 

2.) I'll be glad to help you and pass on what I've learned in setting up a religious emblems program. I have a great rabbi-mentor in the next council over who is a strong supporter of scouting. When the day school kicked out his sons' unit, he got the synagogue board to allow him to charter a new pack. When he arrived in town, he started emblem workshops at his shul.

 

A key thing I've learned is you need to go where the scouts are: I hold classes after Hebrew school on Sundays with enough time for parents to get the kids fed and bring them to the event. My council covers 4 counties and I'm trying to expand beyond two locations, as sometimes they're not willing to travel far.

 

One plus to our programs is that it's increased the visibility of the religious emblems programs to the point where two scouts who heard about the program but didn't attend the workshops pursued and completed the awards on their own.

 

3.) Qwazse: it was more an attempt to give them a recognized award system (Religious Life or Arts and Hobbies Bronze/Gold/Silver and the Etz Chaim and TRUST) that the denominational youth program (USY) didn't offer.

[00Eagle]

 

Anyway, it's the "boots on the ground" who will change anything. If there are enough adults and youth in your congregation who experienced Scouting and your Rabbi agrees,.you'll be able to charter a unit. If not, you'll bump into walls like these.

 

That's very true. Going at it from the outside (council coming in and asking a congregation to host a unit) is not going to work. We're not the UMC where the United Methodist Men love scouts and will willingly host a unit that doesn't even include members of the congregation.

 

However, there do seem to be synagogues, where if a parent comes forward and says, "I want a pack here for my son and his friends and I am willing to lead it." gets results.

 

This happened in my council, we had a Jewish pack come online at a Conservative synagogue in January 2012 because a dad wanted it. However he stepped down at the end of the program year and the pack crumpled before my committee could rescue it. We came online in May '12 and when I finally was ready to go with the rescue plan, the synagogue youth director nixed it as no parents were ready to step up.

 

If I can find a way to get Jewish parents involved, I will try to get another unit going. Until then, emblems workshops and Scout Shabbat are the order of the day.