Cub Scout Lions

[Faith]

I have seen cub scout lions for 5 year olds on this site a few times. Is this a BSA program or is it just being tested in a few places? My youngest son is only five but he wants to start cub scouts now after watching his older brothers get to do everything.

 

IMHO, this is a horrible idea. Just too young.

 

Guess it all depends on the children too. For me it would be wonderful as it would give my younger son something to do since he's was introduced to scouting at 2 via his brother. On the other hand, I know some 5 year olds who would not be able to participate in something like this (without going into specifics, you just know they are too young.) But then again the same can be said about some Tiger cubs (I have a few that are very attached to their parents, wondering how it'll go this year as Wolves when most of the parents won't stick around.)

Agreed. I look forward to seeing if we'll take part in this in the coming years. I think it would be a big help in recruiting earlier on as someone else stated. We shall see!

[Fehler]

Another Northern Star Pack here. We tried heavily to get Lions the last three years going. First year was just the younger brother of another scout. The second year we had two Lions, one skipped out early, the other was from a family closely connected to our COR. This year, we had an actual recruiting class of seven new Lions at the start of the school year. We recruited a Den Leader, tried to do regular, once-monthly "Den Meetings", and moved the Pack Meetings earlier (6:30 rather then 7:00 start). But by the end of December, ended up with only two left (one was a younger sibling, the other was a closely-connected family).

 

This Fall, I hope to get another group (and maybe convince some of the no-shows to try again). Rather then recruit a new Den Leader from their parents, I'm going to get one of our returning parents to lead for the first half of the year. And no monthly Den Meetings in the evening, stick with the "Grand Adventures" theme and try something different.

 

Kids at this age vary widely as to what they can do. I have twin girls starting Kindergarten this fall, one is almost reading full books (and will, I'm sure, once we get her newly-perscribed glasses), the other has to be reminded to use words rather then grunts to communicate. Finding activities will be a challenge. All-age inclusive activities with older Cub Scouts are great for some (the siblings and the connected families), but very intimidating for many other scouts.

[blw2]

Wasn't Lion a rank for 11 year olds back in the day?

When WEBELOS was created, as I understand it, it was an acronym for the cub ranks Wolf Bear Lion Scout.

I know I read that someplace.... just don't remember where.

 

For the current Lion rank idea.....

Personally, I think it's an interesting idea mainly for younger siblings.... but I'm not sure I support it.

I'm worried about burn out. Think it might be better to focus on a high activity and high energy program for the older boys that can handle the really "fun" stuff.

Sort of thinking that a fun high speed mud run might be more fun than a slow paced marathon.

[Pack18Alex]

According to the Tiger Book (or the Online Training), or Leader Guide, or something Tigers aren't part of the Pack... but they are no. There is no distinction between Tiger level and the traditional Cub level anymore, even though the Doodles/AOL Emblems show Tiger before Bobcat as a holdover from when Tiger was created as a mini level. However, Cubs has gone from a 9/10/11 year old program, to a 6-10 year old program, to adding 5 year olds (though we push the 11 year olds out to Boy Scouts, so its 5-10)... That's a BIG range.

 

But we're seeing changes, they eliminated the Tiger/Webelos Leader Knots, we're all Den Leaders now, so no more "row of Knots" for 5 years of your life.

 

Going younger is good, but you need to do something with Webelos. Kindergarteners and 5th Graders should not be really interacting.

 

One thought I would have is that Lion Dens are NOT invited to Pack meetings until AFTER Blue and Gold. They should get introduced to the Pack @ Blue and Gold, which should be as you are sending off the fifth graders. Low key Den-only events for the little boys seems like it might help.

[jc2008]

We had tigers at day camp this summer. And there is a HUGE difference between these kids (who JUST got out of kindergarden) and the wolves (just crossed over tigers).

 

But like I said before, if the program is tailored to them, then it should work. My only fear is that instead of gaining more people you will end up losing people earlier as the program for Lions is only twice a month and its easy to have dropoff when not much is going on, especially the camping etc that parents expect when joining scouts with their kids.

[clemlaw]

 

I'm probably the only person here who was the parent of an actual Lion in the Northern Star Council. We did Lions with another Pack and then had to change Packs due to a meeting night conflict.

 

The main advantage of the program is that you get them signed up when they are young. Some other activities start in Kindergarten, and if you don't get them then, they might be booked. For us, the program worked out really well, and to a large extent, our Pack is doing it based on my son's experiences and what worked well for him.

 

What I have encouraged is for the Lions to take part in as many Pack activities as possible, and not worry too much about trying to have den meetings or activities. The Pack where my son was a Lion did have den meetings. But despite valiant efforts by the leaders, the den meetings weren't really a big hit. They did things like have stories, do crafts, take a short hike, etc. The same activities really could have been done just as well at home, though. I think he had fun, but I don't know if it was really worth an hour of our time.

 

On the other hand, he absolutely LOVED the Pack activities that he participated in. He made (probably with more help than older Cub Scouts) a Pinewood Derby car, raingutter regatta boat, etc. We went to council day camp activities, and he was able to participate in almost all of the activities the older Cub Scouts did. He absolutely loved all of those activities, and the only complaint that I remember was that he didn't get a real Cub Scout uniform. I don't think any of the Lions dragged the program down at all for the older Cub Scouts. He wasn't able to participate in everything, which was fine. When the other Lions couldn't take part, myself and the other parents kept them occupied with something else.

 

The real advantage was that by the time he became a Tiger, he was already gung ho about being a Cub Scout. I think this was because he got a chance to soak in all of the activities that the older Cub Scouts were enjoying. We're following the same approach in our current Pack. We've had about 2 or 3 Lions per year. We just let them and their parents decide a la carte what they want to participate in, and some have been more active than others. I think we've retained all of them. The main advantage is that we didn't lose them to other activities that started in Kindergarten.

 

A few days ago, we were at a park where some workers were repairing something. My son, who just became a Webelos was disappointed, because he wanted to do that job for his Eagle project. :-)

 

If it's done right (in other words, not exactly the way that it's being promoted by the Council), I think it's an excellent introduction to the program. It's not necessarily for every Kindergartener, but for a lot of kids, it will really make them excited about scouting.

[ScouterReneeEstrella]

My son was a Lion in the Northern Star Council last year and I was his den leader. Some of the topics can be a little simple but we added to it and had some great field trips (Grand Adventures). We have had great luck with recruitment and getting Lions involved early. I hope it will start to e available to more councils soon.

[scoutldr]

Yes, blw2, I have my Lion badge from when I was in Cubs in the early 60's. We entered as 8 year olds and received the Bobcat pin after learning the promise, law, motto, etc. The first "rank" was Wolf, then Bear then Lion, each with arrow points. Then you moved to a Webelos den where you earned Arrow of Light. Crossed over to BS when age 11. Everything was based on age back then, not grade level.

[scoutldr]

Forgot to add....dens consisted of all age levels, so you could have wolves, bears and lions all in the same den. Badges and arrow points were completed at home with parents, not in the den. Den meetings were once a week, right after school at the Den Mother's house. Few moms were working back then.