Mike Rowe - Don't separate education from skill

[RememberSchiff]

Interesting interview with Mike Rowe regarding education.

 

http://www.insideedition.com/videos/1575-mike-rowe-encourages-students-to-learn-a-trade

[st0ut717]

This is why scouting is such a great program. As the boys grow an they start to choose their path the merit badge system allows and encourages these different paths.

You want to be a lawyer? eagle requirement in particular Citizenships, Communication, Law, Scholarship, Crime Prevention, American Business, Entrepreneurship, American Labor, Public Speaking.

You Want to be a Act? : Eagle requirements,Communication, Art, theater, Bugle, music, cinematography

You want to work for an F1 team? eagle Citizenship of the world, Communication,Automotive maintencance, Computers, chemestry, engineering, inventing .

 

 

I dant think of an occupation that cannont have a meritbadge system behind it to ensure that the boys succeed in their path.

[walk in the woods]

My guess is Mr. Rowe would be more impressed with MBs like Automotive Maintenance, Farm Mechanics, Welding, Plumbing, Electricity, Woodwork and Metalwork. Maybe Truck Transportation, Drafting, Painting and Animal Science. I suspect 4H and FFA are better positioned to deal with the skills gap that Mr. Rowe discusses.

[st0ut717]

my son has his current career goals and we mapped out what merit badges would help him get to that goal.

 

Challege think of a career and see if we cant find the merit badges that will help the boy get that career

[Eagle92]

So unbelievably true. Our society pushes and pushes folks to go to college, even if it isn't a good fit. Heck even some of the skills trades are looking for college degree now. Because in our society a piece of paper saying you completed a program means more than x number of years expereince.

 

Further it's Catch 22 now. You need expereince to get most jobs now, but you need a job to get the expereince. Especially with youth today. Ther are so many rules and restrictions on whatthey can and cannot do, it's no wonder that some companies will not hire youth.

 

Which is another benefit of Scouting: letting youth gain expereince. I constantly surprise coworkers with some of the things I did in Scouting as a youth and young adult leader.

[Basementdweller]

Locally we have a shortage of CNC machinist, electricians and pipefitters.

 

Eagle your forgetting expectations. The millenial generation come for a job interview and expect to dictate their employment conditions......Last young man that interviewed wanted a month of vacation and salary Equal to what a fellow who has 20 year experience makes. He also expected to negotiate his share of the health coverage....

 

When I graduated college I remember feeling happy I found a job.....even though it barely covered my living expenses and I lived on happy hour buffys for dinner for a number of years. Low wages and long hours were my expectation,

 

Trades are an excellent way to make a living......Many are structured to train new employees, thru apprenticeships.

 

But many of todays youth see them as dirty and frankly beneath them.

 

[walk in the woods]

Locally we have a shortage of CNC machinist, electricians and pipefitters.

 

Eagle your forgetting expectations. The millenial generation come for a job interview and expect to dictate their employment conditions......Last young man that interviewed wanted a month of vacation and salary Equal to what a fellow who has 20 year experience makes. He also expected to negotiate his share of the health coverage....

 

When I graduated college I remember feeling happy I found a job.....even though it barely covered my living expenses and I lived on happy hour buffys for dinner for a number of years. Low wages and long hours were my expectation,

 

Trades are an excellent way to make a living......Many are structured to train new employees, thru apprenticeships.

 

But many of todays youth see them as dirty and frankly beneath them.

So true. I work in a university setting and tire quickly of hearing young people complain about the menial tasks they are expected to complete.

[RememberSchiff]

My younger son's school suddenly dropped their carpentry program this spring. Distressed, I spoke with our principal Jack S. who said "That was 50's technology. We prepare our students for the 21st Century" i.e., service jobs and select professional jobs.

 

Back in my day, even public junior and senior high schools had shop classes. Unlike vocational schools, the public school courses were survey courses. Over 3 years, I spent a semester or two in wood, metal (cold chisels!), graphic arts, engine, plumbing (threaded a lot of pipe), and electrical shops. The skills I learned and the projects I made lead to Woodworking (my shop teacher was my MBC - hand tools only, all corners had to be square!), Metalwork, Metallurgy, and Electricity merit badges. Those were some tough merit badges.

 

Today, damn few of the public schools have trade shops, but they do having OUTING clubs and if a public school scout wants a short survey course to try a trade then maybe a merit badge is his only option. Rather ironic.

 

My $0.02

[skeptic]

Even more ironic is that if someone makes the effort to actually learn these "outdated" trades, they can almost demand their own price to those who want premium work. Look at the program American Restoration for example. We had a couple of brothers in the troop a few years back whose father specialized in custom body work; clients came to him when they could not get original parts, and he would make them from scratch or rebuild old ones if usable. Always had more work than he could handle. A master furniture maker never lacks for customers. These people also take "pride" in their skills.

 

I am not, nor ever have been, one with skills along these lines, but I do know something about them. When needed, because of my financial state at the time, I have done basic plumbing, basic electrical, and basic carpentry. Not pretty, but utile at the time. And, kids very often are literally fascinated by even rudimentary skills in these areas.

 

Interestingly enough, even the so called "modern" skills already are begging for people that can fix things from the early days. In computers, there are fewer and fewer that understand the very basic codes that are the foundations of so much of the current programing. They are just there; but when something goes buggy with these early programs, it is often a really serious issue because they cannot find anyone knowledgeable about them. Similar situations are found with auto repair, especially if the vehicle is pre computer era.

 

We are missing the boat in trying to "force" everybody to go to college. And even in the college level programs, we are losing leverage by undermining the value of the arts and even, to some extent, basic language skills.

 

Just things that I have noted and find cautionary or simply interesting.

[acco40]

Don't get it backwards - the Scout should be taking merit badges that exposes/introduces them to many of the various professions that are out there. Don't think of a career and then pursue merit badges along those lines. Why limit career choices at the age of 13, 14 ,15 16 or even 17?

 

 

 

Also, keep in mind that even if a Scout wants to become a carpenter, do body work, etc. they still benefit from basic English, science and mathematics courses. That is what our high schools should be teaching. Right now, I'd say 75% of community colleges and 50% of universities concentrate on getting freshmen up to speed on basic high school academics. Today's high school is equivalent to "yesterday's" junior high, today's college to yesterday's high school, etc.

 

 

 

When my daughter, a recent high school graduate who is starting college in the fall told me that about they only thing they studied in history/social studies during high school and middle school was race relations, integration, etc. and barely anything about the American Revolution, Civil War, WWI/WWII, Korean Conflict, Vietnam, Industrial Age, etc. much less Greek, Roman or European history - well as my colleagues at work state - you raised 'em now you have to work with 'em!

[RememberSchiff]

Another good talk, this time at Jambo

 

Educated and SKILLED

Work Smart AND HARD.

A scout is Clean but NOT AFRAID TO GET DIRTY.

[fred johnson]

My guess is Mr. Rowe would be more impressed with MBs like Automotive Maintenance, Farm Mechanics, Welding, Plumbing, Electricity, Woodwork and Metalwork. Maybe Truck Transportation, Drafting, Painting and Animal Science. I suspect 4H and FFA are better positioned to deal with the skills gap that Mr. Rowe discusses.

I like the list. It doesn't waste scout time on topics they've seen for years in school. It fills in gaps and opens scouts to new arenas.

[DeanRx]

I've seen about 4 interviews with Mr. Rowe on thsi subject now. I think he makes some valid points, the largest of which is the disparity between what most colleges THINK you need as curriculum for a degree and what business NEEDS you to have. In my own profession, I only use about 1/4 of what I was taught (even in the science and math sections) in my day to day business. In retrospect, if my college tract could have replaced some of the non-essential stuff with more communication (verbal and written) requirements, and more interpersonal relationship / psychology classwork, and some more emphasis on business, it would have better prepared me for the real world of healthcare.

 

I think that and the idea that a well earning blue collar job is some how less esteamed than a low paying white collar job has done a disservice to an entire generation now. I see a LOT of college graduates working outsied their degree professions because that is where the job is and it pays the same of better than what they went to school for. Folks really need to look at ROI (return on investment) on the degree field (or major) and take that into consideration when choosing a program or college. A 4 year BA degree from a private school that costs your 15K+ a year is not likely to be a good ROI, if you're only going to make 40K a year. A 4 yr BS degree from a state school that costs 20K a year is a good deal, if you can make close to 100K after graduation.

 

Far too many kids looking to do "what I love", instead of realistically looking for something close that can be "what I like enough to do for a career" and still make a livable wage at it. Maybe that is settling for less, but it beats the heck out of a 4 yr arts degree that leaves you asking, "Would you like fries with that?".

 

I've seen about 4 interviews with Mr. Rowe on thsi subject now. I think he makes some valid points, the largest of which is the disparity between what most colleges THINK you need as curriculum for a degree and what business NEEDS you to have. In my own profession, I only use about 1/4 of what I was taught (even in the science and math sections) in my day to day business. In retrospect, if my college tract could have replaced some of the non-essential stuff with more communication (verbal and written) requirements, and more interpersonal relationship / psychology classwork, and some more emphasis on business, it would have better prepared me for the real world of healthcare.

 

I think that and the idea that a well earning blue collar job is some how less esteamed than a low paying white collar job has done a disservice to an entire generation now. I see a LOT of college graduates working outsied their degree professions because that is where the job is and it pays the same of better than what they went to school for. Folks really need to look at ROI (return on investment) on the degree field (or major) and take that into consideration when choosing a program or college. A 4 year BA degree from a private school that costs your 15K+ a year is not likely to be a good ROI, if you're only going to make 40K a year. A 4 yr BS degree from a state school that costs 20K a year is a good deal, if you can make close to 100K after graduation.

 

Far too many kids looking to do "what I love", instead of realistically looking for something close that can be "what I like enough to do for a career" and still make a livable wage at it. Maybe that is settling for less, but it beats the heck out of a 4 yr arts degree that leaves you asking, "Would you like fries with that?".

 

[perdidochas]

I've seen about 4 interviews with Mr. Rowe on thsi subject now. I think he makes some valid points, the largest of which is the disparity between what most colleges THINK you need as curriculum for a degree and what business NEEDS you to have. In my own profession, I only use about 1/4 of what I was taught (even in the science and math sections) in my day to day business. In retrospect, if my college tract could have replaced some of the non-essential stuff with more communication (verbal and written) requirements, and more interpersonal relationship / psychology classwork, and some more emphasis on business, it would have better prepared me for the real world of healthcare.

 

The problem with your assumption about only using 1/4 of what you were taught in day to day business, is that if you were working for another business, you might need a different 1/4, or maybe 1/8 in common, 1/8 of different material.

 

[Stosh]

I work for a billion dollar international manufacturing industry. I know for a fact that the enrollment in the local trades college for welders is limited. However, with that being said, both my company and our closest competitor hand out applications to all incoming students in the program. Good welders can in fact dictate terms in their interviews.