The Future of the BSA?

[Horizon]

As long as Scouting professionals are measured based on FOS, popcorn and booklet sales, new units and total numbers we will see the incentive system drive behavior.

 

As long as units carry Scouts on the rolls, they will leave them there in case they come back (if the unit can afford the $25 or so annual carrying fee). My son is on the rolls for one unit, though he only shows up to help once a year or so while he is in college.

 

As long as rechartering remains such a pain, units will also leave some people on the list rather than deal with the poorly designed interface.

[King Ding Dong]

As long as Scouting professionals are measured based on FOS, popcorn and booklet sales, new units and total numbers we will see the incentive system drive behavior.

 

As long as units carry Scouts on the rolls, they will leave them there in case they come back (if the unit can afford the $25 or so annual carrying fee). My son is on the rolls for one unit, though he only shows up to help once a year or so while he is in college.

 

As long as rechartering remains such a pain, units will also leave some people on the list rather than deal with the poorly designed interface.

Having never been through the rechartering process, what is the advantage of having phantom members ?

[eaglewolfdad]

By 1991, most of the headlines BSA was grabbing were related to the 3G's. However, in Los Angeles the Council was being audited because a former paid professional alleged membership fraud in the council's inner-city outreach program. BSA National refused to allow an outside audit of the council's rolls and reported that the council had indeed inflated its rolls, but only by about 1,800 youth. Other former paid professionals reported that the actual number was more like 16,000, from a total of 80,000. It should be noted that by 2000, the council reported about 41,000 registered youth.

 

Another former paid professional blew the whistle on another membership scandal in 1994 on the Andrew Jackson Council (Vicksburg, MS). Brian Paul Freese, "wrote in his resignation letter that he had been threatened with termination for refusing to create fake units and pay their registration fees to national headquarters with diverted funds."

"Phil Gee, a Scout volunteer who was among those who blew the whistle on the alleged practices, said local and national Scout audits found 6,000 inactive Scouts on the rolls. The council's numbers were reduced from 14,000 to 8,000 after all the "ghosts" were purged, Mr. Gee said."

 

For the first time that we know of, an independent review of a Council's membership rolls (albeit a small section) was prepared in 1999. The University of North Florida conducted a study for the Jessie Ball duPont Fund, which provided funds to the Northeast Florida Council (Jacksonville, FL) to provide Scouting to youth in public housing projects (the report can be read here.). The Fund gave more than $327,000, over an eight-year period, to the council for this project. Of the 600 scouts the council claimed, the study could only verify less than 100 and only 125 of the 285 adult volunteer leaders claimed.

 

After more than 25 years of public airing of BSA's fraudulent activities it should have come as no surprise to the Circle Ten Council (Dallas, TX), when federal agents raided their offices on the morning of 7 April 2000. This raid started a federal investigation into the Council's fraudulent membership reporting. The investigation resulted in the impanelling of a federal grand jury in 2003 to examine the evidence and hear testimony from government witnesses. As of January 2005, that examination was yet to be concluded.

However, since the raid, the council has revised their membership rolls by -35%, or a reduction of 20,000 youth. The local United Way chapter, "which had steadily increased its contributions over 10 years based on Circle Ten's membership claims, has reduced donations" to the council each year, since 2000.

 

"In Atlanta, independent auditors are investigating claims the metro area´s Boy Scouts inflated black membership numbers to 20,000 to gain more donations. A civil rights leader contends there are no more than 500 blacks actively involved." For more information on this current scandal, click here. At the end of 2004, we learned that the FBI was investigating the Greater Alabama Council (Birmingham, AL) for yet another fraudulent membership scheme. We'll probably read about the council revising their membership numbers in the next couple of months. However, until a paid BSA professional is prosecuted for fraud, there will be no incentive to other paid professionals to just say no to BSA National's insistence on inflating membership figures. Until BSA allows outside and independent audits to be conducted of its membership rolls, the public will have no confidence in the membership figures printed in BSA's Annual Report to Congress .

Kristian says

"some councils have totally made up numbers to meet certain goals though this practice isnt that common even though it continues despite repeated investigations."

 

Do you have any evidence to back this statement up? Your other post relied on 10-25 year old data from a BSA hate site. Trying to understand your statement- totally made up/ isnt that common /even though it continues

[Basementdweller]

Am I alone in that I don't care about the future of the BSA? We'll be okay for the next five years, and my son will be done. He is my primary concern.

 

Sure, I d like for him to be able to proudly point to to a venerable organization of which he is an alum; but that horse is gone. BSA has devolved into a prissy politically correct financial enterprise.

How do the BSA pensions compare to the GSUSA pensions?

 

What the country really needs is a BSA type organization with a little more testosterone.

I would expect nothing less from the self absorbed southerner......

 

I appreciate you could give a crap about anyone else but your boys..........

 

He stays so his son can have that extra line on his resume.......It is not out of a sense of selfless service....The second his boy eagles he is gone.....the rest of the boys be dammed.

[JoeBob]

Am I alone in that I don't care about the future of the BSA? We'll be okay for the next five years, and my son will be done. He is my primary concern.

 

Sure, I d like for him to be able to proudly point to to a venerable organization of which he is an alum; but that horse is gone. BSA has devolved into a prissy politically correct financial enterprise.

How do the BSA pensions compare to the GSUSA pensions?

 

What the country really needs is a BSA type organization with a little more testosterone.

Where is my danged Cross?

[Basementdweller]

KDD for the unit there is no benefit to having phantom members.......

 

For the DE and SE on the other hand....Lot of money tied to those numbers.........then the Learning for life numbers...... All ya got to do is google BSA membership numbers fraud and look what pops up. Interesting our old SE left we lost 4k scouts the first year he was gone.

 

 

 

[King Ding Dong]

KDD for the unit there is no benefit to having phantom members.......

 

For the DE and SE on the other hand....Lot of money tied to those numbers.........then the Learning for life numbers...... All ya got to do is google BSA membership numbers fraud and look what pops up. Interesting our old SE left we lost 4k scouts the first year he was gone.

 

 

What does the DE and SE hold over you to convince you to violate the scout oath ?

[Basementdweller]

KDD for the unit there is no benefit to having phantom members.......

 

For the DE and SE on the other hand....Lot of money tied to those numbers.........then the Learning for life numbers...... All ya got to do is google BSA membership numbers fraud and look what pops up. Interesting our old SE left we lost 4k scouts the first year he was gone.

 

 

Well let me see....

 

The first three year I did our charter I always found 3 to 5 boys who nobody ever knew or had ever been members......In speaking with other CM's and CC I found it was pretty typical.....The DE was confronted at a roundtable and moved to another district very promptly after that and our charters have been correct ever since....

 

The first DE created a Crew from an entire grade a Parochial school....Not sure how it happened but the general consensus is that Learning for Life money was used.

 

KDD you understand that if you raise too much of a ruckus that the council will revoke your membership.... So they force most folks into silence.

[Kahuna]

It's very simple. The DEs either take names from the phone book or leave formerly registered boys and units on the books. They have to pay the fees themselves. It was easy enough back when I was a DE in the 70s and must be even easier now with computer inputs. As someone said, as long as professional Scouters are promoted and paid based on numbers there will be fudging. Not by all, but by some.

[DigitalScout]

By 1991, most of the headlines BSA was grabbing were related to the 3G's. However, in Los Angeles the Council was being audited because a former paid professional alleged membership fraud in the council's inner-city outreach program. BSA National refused to allow an outside audit of the council's rolls and reported that the council had indeed inflated its rolls, but only by about 1,800 youth. Other former paid professionals reported that the actual number was more like 16,000, from a total of 80,000. It should be noted that by 2000, the council reported about 41,000 registered youth.

 

Another former paid professional blew the whistle on another membership scandal in 1994 on the Andrew Jackson Council (Vicksburg, MS). Brian Paul Freese, "wrote in his resignation letter that he had been threatened with termination for refusing to create fake units and pay their registration fees to national headquarters with diverted funds."

"Phil Gee, a Scout volunteer who was among those who blew the whistle on the alleged practices, said local and national Scout audits found 6,000 inactive Scouts on the rolls. The council's numbers were reduced from 14,000 to 8,000 after all the "ghosts" were purged, Mr. Gee said."

 

For the first time that we know of, an independent review of a Council's membership rolls (albeit a small section) was prepared in 1999. The University of North Florida conducted a study for the Jessie Ball duPont Fund, which provided funds to the Northeast Florida Council (Jacksonville, FL) to provide Scouting to youth in public housing projects (the report can be read here.). The Fund gave more than $327,000, over an eight-year period, to the council for this project. Of the 600 scouts the council claimed, the study could only verify less than 100 and only 125 of the 285 adult volunteer leaders claimed.

 

After more than 25 years of public airing of BSA's fraudulent activities it should have come as no surprise to the Circle Ten Council (Dallas, TX), when federal agents raided their offices on the morning of 7 April 2000. This raid started a federal investigation into the Council's fraudulent membership reporting. The investigation resulted in the impanelling of a federal grand jury in 2003 to examine the evidence and hear testimony from government witnesses. As of January 2005, that examination was yet to be concluded.

However, since the raid, the council has revised their membership rolls by -35%, or a reduction of 20,000 youth. The local United Way chapter, "which had steadily increased its contributions over 10 years based on Circle Ten's membership claims, has reduced donations" to the council each year, since 2000.

 

"In Atlanta, independent auditors are investigating claims the metro area´s Boy Scouts inflated black membership numbers to 20,000 to gain more donations. A civil rights leader contends there are no more than 500 blacks actively involved." For more information on this current scandal, click here. At the end of 2004, we learned that the FBI was investigating the Greater Alabama Council (Birmingham, AL) for yet another fraudulent membership scheme. We'll probably read about the council revising their membership numbers in the next couple of months. However, until a paid BSA professional is prosecuted for fraud, there will be no incentive to other paid professionals to just say no to BSA National's insistence on inflating membership figures. Until BSA allows outside and independent audits to be conducted of its membership rolls, the public will have no confidence in the membership figures printed in BSA's Annual Report to Congress .

I have found the the bsa-discrimination.org website to be fairly accurate. I would not call it a hate site. Its more like a watchdog site.

 

Just spot checking, here's an article in the Topeka Capital Journal regarding the FBI investigation of the Greater Atlanta Council.. http://cjonline.com/stories/012605/pag_fbi.shtml

[DigitalScout]

The BSA needs to do a better job communicating their value proposition to the American public. They need to explain why kids' time is better spent in scouting rather than playing sports, playing video games, watching TV, etc. I don't see the BSA doing any advertising on social media, online media, or traditional media. I would like to see the BSA counter the negative media news by touting all the positive aspects of scouting like outdoor adventure, state-of-the-art youth protection, and leadership training.

 

The NatGeo show "Are You Tougher Than a Boy Scout" is a great way to get kids interested in scouting but there needs to be more along those lines.

[blw2]

The BSA needs to do a better job communicating their value proposition to the American public. They need to explain why kids' time is better spent in scouting rather than playing sports, playing video games, watching TV, etc. I don't see the BSA doing any advertising on social media, online media, or traditional media. I would like to see the BSA counter the negative media news by touting all the positive aspects of scouting like outdoor adventure, state-of-the-art youth protection, and leadership training.

 

The NatGeo show "Are You Tougher Than a Boy Scout" is a great way to get kids interested in scouting but there needs to be more along those lines.

I think I would agree with that.

 

...... now brace for the "where's the money for it come from" comments......

I'd guess there's enough money now, just needs to be re-prioritized and used more efficiently. If not, raise our dues by a buck each.

[Basementdweller]

Am I alone in that I don't care about the future of the BSA? We'll be okay for the next five years, and my son will be done. He is my primary concern.

 

Sure, I d like for him to be able to proudly point to to a venerable organization of which he is an alum; but that horse is gone. BSA has devolved into a prissy politically correct financial enterprise.

How do the BSA pensions compare to the GSUSA pensions?

 

What the country really needs is a BSA type organization with a little more testosterone.

just so it doesn't dis appear

 

Joebob wrote

 

Am I alone in that I don't care about the future of the BSA? We'll be okay for the next five years, and my son will be done. He is my primary concern.

 

Sure, I d like for him to be able to proudly point to to a venerable organization of which he is an alum; but that horse is gone. BSA has devolved into a prissy politically correct financial enterprise.

How do the BSA pensions compare to the GSUSA pensions?

 

What the country really needs is a BSA type organization with a little more testosterone.

[Scouter99]

The BSA needs to do a better job communicating their value proposition to the American public. They need to explain why kids' time is better spent in scouting rather than playing sports, playing video games, watching TV, etc. I don't see the BSA doing any advertising on social media, online media, or traditional media. I would like to see the BSA counter the negative media news by touting all the positive aspects of scouting like outdoor adventure, state-of-the-art youth protection, and leadership training.

 

The NatGeo show "Are You Tougher Than a Boy Scout" is a great way to get kids interested in scouting but there needs to be more along those lines.

 

The problem with a national campaign is that it depends on units and councils to work. If National spends $XX on TV spots in Townville, but the council isn't able, willing, or interested in facilitating a large influx of new recruits, then all National has done is waste that money and create ill will on the part of the new recruits who fall through the cracks.

National has put the money in where they can best spend it, and created a complete marketing package that is available for free to any council that wants to use it: http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/con...ecruiting.aspx

 

This could sound like excuse-making, but take a look at BeAscout.org and put in your own ZIP code. I use it routinely to try and find contact info for troops across the country, but it has almost always not been configured. Free marketing for every unit in the country, but virtually no units are taking advantage of it.

[King Ding Dong]

KDD for the unit there is no benefit to having phantom members.......

 

For the DE and SE on the other hand....Lot of money tied to those numbers.........then the Learning for life numbers...... All ya got to do is google BSA membership numbers fraud and look what pops up. Interesting our old SE left we lost 4k scouts the first year he was gone.

 

 

Could you describe the ruckus, sir ?