The Future of the BSA?

[JoeBob]

Am I alone in that I don't care about the future of the BSA? We'll be okay for the next five years, and my son will be done. He is my primary concern.

 

Sure, I d like for him to be able to proudly point to to a venerable organization of which he is an alum; but that horse is gone. BSA has devolved into a prissy politically correct financial enterprise.

How do the BSA pensions compare to the GSUSA pensions?

 

What the country really needs is a BSA type organization with a little more testosterone.

[King Ding Dong]

Am I alone in that I don't care about the future of the BSA? We'll be okay for the next five years, and my son will be done. He is my primary concern.

 

Sure, I d like for him to be able to proudly point to to a venerable organization of which he is an alum; but that horse is gone. BSA has devolved into a prissy politically correct financial enterprise.

How do the BSA pensions compare to the GSUSA pensions?

 

What the country really needs is a BSA type organization with a little more testosterone.

No you are not alone, but I am not with you. There is plenty I don't like about the BSA but that is outweighed by all the wonderful things I do like. I can say the same thing about my country.

 

If the BSA is a financial enterprise they suck at it. The margins on any programs I have seen a very low. I certainly wouldn't call the BSA an icon of capitalism.

 

I think part of the problem is those that plan on being "done" with the program. There is no destination, it is a journey.

 

Why do you stay?

[Callie]

From my perspective, the GSUSA's big problem is the way they're "organized." There's no continuity in units. Mrs. Jones starts a unit, but it's not like a BSA unit where all comers are welcome, rather, it's just for Katie Jones and Katie's friends. When they get sick of scouts, or stop being friends, the troop is just gone. There are currently 3 GSUSA troops meeting at my troop's CO; why? Balkanism. Of course they have waiting lists and don't have enough volunteers, it's a selfish system. In the past 15 years, there's been a parade of GSUSA units at our CO, perhaps 6; some were founded and folded before we even knew they existed.

Of the 3 troops where we meet, none of them owns anything except finger paint and beads. Of course they don't go camping, their troops are a couple years old, have no gear, and won't exist long enough to justify spending the money on tents, stoves, cook kits, etc.

 

BSA units, on the other hand, are true community units. They may even be a narrow Catholic or Mormon unit, but every boy at that institution can join. They may meet at a school, but any boy can join. If a troop is by chance too big to take one more, there's another troop. BSA units are durable; they don't form to serve 5 boys then disband every 3 years.

 

So, BSA and GSUSA face some of the same problems (declining membership, relevance, etc) but the root causes are different, so in my view, no, we can't extrapolate this article to "the future of the BSA."

 

Hi! I'm a frequent lurker here, but as I have experience with GSUSA as well as Boy Scouts I'd like to comment on this comparison.

 

I agree that you cannot equate the two organizations. The one thing that is true, is that the groups are organized very differently from each other, and have a very different culture. Girl Scout troops are not set up as Cub Packs or Boy Scout troops. That can however be a good thing. If there is no troop for your daughter, you can just start one -- no need to find a chartering organization or to set up an entire Pack for kids grades 1-5 and find den leaders for each den. After years of experience with Girl Scouts, when I first got involved with starting a pack in our town (none had existed for years) I was overwhelmed with how much infrastructure a pack needed; it seemed very top-heavy and took almost 5 years to get everything up and running, by which time my son was in 5th grade. If I had just been able to spend the equivalent amount of time on his den alone, he woudl have had a much better Scouting experience. As it is, because of problems getting the pack up and running, we lost many boys in his den and only ended up with 4.

 

Compare this with our experience with my daughter's troop -- yes, it was only one grade level and not all 5, but we have been able to successfully run a great troop for her and 11 of her classmates and neighbors. I hardly think this system is "selfish" in that we are very open to girls at this level (although we do put a limit on numbers -- 12 seems to be a good size for a troop. If more girls want to join their parents are more than welcome to start a new troop, just as in Cub Scouts you start a new den!)

 

In our Girl Scout Service Unit, girls who go camping do not camp with parents ala pack campouts. We leaders take the girls camping overnight, choosing to start in 2nd grade. We don't need troop tents or supplies because there are tents at the Girl Scout camps. If we want a propane stove, we just borrow one or bring our own. As girls get older and wish to camp in tents and use more specialized camping gear, we can rent anything we need for a couple of dollars each from our council for the weekend. The Girl Scout program doesn't have camping built in to advancement in the same way the Boy Scouts do, and as a result girls don't often go camping nearly as much as the boys do, but it's not because of lack of gear.

 

The reason GSUSA is experiencing a decline in membership right now is that they have completely changed their program. They have brought in something called the "Leadership Experience" and "Journeys" instead of badges and advancement, and the girls and leaders are rebelling. Troops refused to do the Journeys and so National made doing one mandatory for earning the "highest awards" in scouting.... but what you actually do to earn the Journeys is almost completely up to you. You just have to say you have done one; the requirements are extremely vague. Girls complain that the Journeys are too much like school; they are also dumbed down.

[Scouter99]

From my perspective, the GSUSA's big problem is the way they're "organized." There's no continuity in units. Mrs. Jones starts a unit, but it's not like a BSA unit where all comers are welcome, rather, it's just for Katie Jones and Katie's friends. When they get sick of scouts, or stop being friends, the troop is just gone. There are currently 3 GSUSA troops meeting at my troop's CO; why? Balkanism. Of course they have waiting lists and don't have enough volunteers, it's a selfish system. In the past 15 years, there's been a parade of GSUSA units at our CO, perhaps 6; some were founded and folded before we even knew they existed.

Of the 3 troops where we meet, none of them owns anything except finger paint and beads. Of course they don't go camping, their troops are a couple years old, have no gear, and won't exist long enough to justify spending the money on tents, stoves, cook kits, etc.

 

BSA units, on the other hand, are true community units. They may even be a narrow Catholic or Mormon unit, but every boy at that institution can join. They may meet at a school, but any boy can join. If a troop is by chance too big to take one more, there's another troop. BSA units are durable; they don't form to serve 5 boys then disband every 3 years.

 

So, BSA and GSUSA face some of the same problems (declining membership, relevance, etc) but the root causes are different, so in my view, no, we can't extrapolate this article to "the future of the BSA."

 

Hi! I'm a frequent lurker here, but as I have experience with GSUSA as well as Boy Scouts I'd like to comment on this comparison.

 

I agree that you cannot equate the two organizations. The one thing that is true, is that the groups are organized very differently from each other, and have a very different culture. Girl Scout troops are not set up as Cub Packs or Boy Scout troops. That can however be a good thing. If there is no troop for your daughter, you can just start one -- no need to find a chartering organization or to set up an entire Pack for kids grades 1-5 and find den leaders for each den. After years of experience with Girl Scouts, when I first got involved with starting a pack in our town (none had existed for years) I was overwhelmed with how much infrastructure a pack needed; it seemed very top-heavy and took almost 5 years to get everything up and running, by which time my son was in 5th grade. If I had just been able to spend the equivalent amount of time on his den alone, he woudl have had a much better Scouting experience. As it is, because of problems getting the pack up and running, we lost many boys in his den and only ended up with 4.

 

Compare this with our experience with my daughter's troop -- yes, it was only one grade level and not all 5, but we have been able to successfully run a great troop for her and 11 of her classmates and neighbors. I hardly think this system is "selfish" in that we are very open to girls at this level (although we do put a limit on numbers -- 12 seems to be a good size for a troop. If more girls want to join their parents are more than welcome to start a new troop, just as in Cub Scouts you start a new den!)

 

In our Girl Scout Service Unit, girls who go camping do not camp with parents ala pack campouts. We leaders take the girls camping overnight, choosing to start in 2nd grade. We don't need troop tents or supplies because there are tents at the Girl Scout camps. If we want a propane stove, we just borrow one or bring our own. As girls get older and wish to camp in tents and use more specialized camping gear, we can rent anything we need for a couple of dollars each from our council for the weekend. The Girl Scout program doesn't have camping built in to advancement in the same way the Boy Scouts do, and as a result girls don't often go camping nearly as much as the boys do, but it's not because of lack of gear.

 

The reason GSUSA is experiencing a decline in membership right now is that they have completely changed their program. They have brought in something called the "Leadership Experience" and "Journeys" instead of badges and advancement, and the girls and leaders are rebelling. Troops refused to do the Journeys and so National made doing one mandatory for earning the "highest awards" in scouting.... but what you actually do to earn the Journeys is almost completely up to you. You just have to say you have done one; the requirements are extremely vague. Girls complain that the Journeys are too much like school; they are also dumbed down.

Thanks for your detailed reply. I think it's definitely true that there are strengths and weaknesses to both systems!

[King Ding Dong]

From my perspective, the GSUSA's big problem is the way they're "organized." There's no continuity in units. Mrs. Jones starts a unit, but it's not like a BSA unit where all comers are welcome, rather, it's just for Katie Jones and Katie's friends. When they get sick of scouts, or stop being friends, the troop is just gone. There are currently 3 GSUSA troops meeting at my troop's CO; why? Balkanism. Of course they have waiting lists and don't have enough volunteers, it's a selfish system. In the past 15 years, there's been a parade of GSUSA units at our CO, perhaps 6; some were founded and folded before we even knew they existed.

Of the 3 troops where we meet, none of them owns anything except finger paint and beads. Of course they don't go camping, their troops are a couple years old, have no gear, and won't exist long enough to justify spending the money on tents, stoves, cook kits, etc.

 

BSA units, on the other hand, are true community units. They may even be a narrow Catholic or Mormon unit, but every boy at that institution can join. They may meet at a school, but any boy can join. If a troop is by chance too big to take one more, there's another troop. BSA units are durable; they don't form to serve 5 boys then disband every 3 years.

 

So, BSA and GSUSA face some of the same problems (declining membership, relevance, etc) but the root causes are different, so in my view, no, we can't extrapolate this article to "the future of the BSA."

 

Hi! I'm a frequent lurker here, but as I have experience with GSUSA as well as Boy Scouts I'd like to comment on this comparison.

 

I agree that you cannot equate the two organizations. The one thing that is true, is that the groups are organized very differently from each other, and have a very different culture. Girl Scout troops are not set up as Cub Packs or Boy Scout troops. That can however be a good thing. If there is no troop for your daughter, you can just start one -- no need to find a chartering organization or to set up an entire Pack for kids grades 1-5 and find den leaders for each den. After years of experience with Girl Scouts, when I first got involved with starting a pack in our town (none had existed for years) I was overwhelmed with how much infrastructure a pack needed; it seemed very top-heavy and took almost 5 years to get everything up and running, by which time my son was in 5th grade. If I had just been able to spend the equivalent amount of time on his den alone, he woudl have had a much better Scouting experience. As it is, because of problems getting the pack up and running, we lost many boys in his den and only ended up with 4.

 

Compare this with our experience with my daughter's troop -- yes, it was only one grade level and not all 5, but we have been able to successfully run a great troop for her and 11 of her classmates and neighbors. I hardly think this system is "selfish" in that we are very open to girls at this level (although we do put a limit on numbers -- 12 seems to be a good size for a troop. If more girls want to join their parents are more than welcome to start a new troop, just as in Cub Scouts you start a new den!)

 

In our Girl Scout Service Unit, girls who go camping do not camp with parents ala pack campouts. We leaders take the girls camping overnight, choosing to start in 2nd grade. We don't need troop tents or supplies because there are tents at the Girl Scout camps. If we want a propane stove, we just borrow one or bring our own. As girls get older and wish to camp in tents and use more specialized camping gear, we can rent anything we need for a couple of dollars each from our council for the weekend. The Girl Scout program doesn't have camping built in to advancement in the same way the Boy Scouts do, and as a result girls don't often go camping nearly as much as the boys do, but it's not because of lack of gear.

 

The reason GSUSA is experiencing a decline in membership right now is that they have completely changed their program. They have brought in something called the "Leadership Experience" and "Journeys" instead of badges and advancement, and the girls and leaders are rebelling. Troops refused to do the Journeys and so National made doing one mandatory for earning the "highest awards" in scouting.... but what you actually do to earn the Journeys is almost completely up to you. You just have to say you have done one; the requirements are extremely vague. Girls complain that the Journeys are too much like school; they are also dumbed down.

Agreed. I certainly like aspects of the GSUSA system especially at the younger levels. There is a wide gap between tigers and Webelos and adding lions soon is going to be a real challenge.

 

Was talking to a 25 year Scouter tonight who just went to GS camp training. The things they make them do are nuts. Then again he reminded me that the BSA is not a camping program. It is sometimes easy to forget that camping is just a classroom and is well suited for many boys. Maybe less so for for some girls.

[blw2]

In 1972 total membership was 6' date='524,640 when the New Scouting Program, which took the Outing out of Scouting, was introduced, then

1974: 5,803,885

1975: 5,318,070

1976: 4,884,082

1977: 4,718,138

1978: 4,493,491

1979: 4,284,469, SOS sent to Green Bar Bill (William Hillcourt) who returned from retirement to write the 1979 edition of Scout Handbook. Membership decline stopped and reverses.

1980: 4,326,082

1981: 4,355,723

1982: 4,542,449

1983: 4,688,953

1986: 5,170,979

........

,

 

As a youth, I was part of that early 1980's increase.

 

What do the numbers look like since 1986?

I posted this in comment above, but I'm afraid that comments way up in the thread get lost in the chaff. Sorry for the duplicity, but I'm really curious if anyone know the current trend of the numbers......

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

In 1972 total membership was 6' date='524,640 when the New Scouting Program, which took the Outing out of Scouting, was introduced, then

1974: 5,803,885

1975: 5,318,070

1976: 4,884,082

1977: 4,718,138

1978: 4,493,491

1979: 4,284,469, SOS sent to Green Bar Bill (William Hillcourt) who returned from retirement to write the 1979 edition of Scout Handbook. Membership decline stopped and reverses.

1980: 4,326,082

1981: 4,355,723

1982: 4,542,449

1983: 4,688,953

1986: 5,170,979

........

,

 

As a youth, I was part of that early 1980's increase.

 

What do the numbers look like since 1986?

I posted this in comment above, but I'm afraid that comments way up in the thread get lost in the chaff. Sorry for the duplicity, but I'm really curious if anyone know the current trend of the numbers......

There's a table from 1986 to 2012 here, just on youth membership (the 1972-1986 figures above differ for 1986 (5,170,979 vs 4,036,818), I think the larger number includes adult leaders):

http://bsa-discrimination.org/html/bsa_membership.html

 

You can also get 1997-now here:

http://www.scouting.org/About/AnnualReports/PreviousYears.aspx

[ThomasJefferson]

None of these numerical counts are accurate. BSA was caught red-handed forging memberships to artificially inflate membership numbers in the 1990's. They lied about the entire increase throughout the 1980's. Auditors came in and scrubbed the numbers council by council and removed the false increase in members.

[Kristian]

By 1991, most of the headlines BSA was grabbing were related to the 3G's. However, in Los Angeles the Council was being audited because a former paid professional alleged membership fraud in the council's inner-city outreach program. BSA National refused to allow an outside audit of the council's rolls and reported that the council had indeed inflated its rolls, but only by about 1,800 youth. Other former paid professionals reported that the actual number was more like 16,000, from a total of 80,000. It should be noted that by 2000, the council reported about 41,000 registered youth.

 

Another former paid professional blew the whistle on another membership scandal in 1994 on the Andrew Jackson Council (Vicksburg, MS). Brian Paul Freese, "wrote in his resignation letter that he had been threatened with termination for refusing to create fake units and pay their registration fees to national headquarters with diverted funds."

"Phil Gee, a Scout volunteer who was among those who blew the whistle on the alleged practices, said local and national Scout audits found 6,000 inactive Scouts on the rolls. The council's numbers were reduced from 14,000 to 8,000 after all the "ghosts" were purged, Mr. Gee said."

 

For the first time that we know of, an independent review of a Council's membership rolls (albeit a small section) was prepared in 1999. The University of North Florida conducted a study for the Jessie Ball duPont Fund, which provided funds to the Northeast Florida Council (Jacksonville, FL) to provide Scouting to youth in public housing projects (the report can be read here.). The Fund gave more than $327,000, over an eight-year period, to the council for this project. Of the 600 scouts the council claimed, the study could only verify less than 100 and only 125 of the 285 adult volunteer leaders claimed.

 

After more than 25 years of public airing of BSA's fraudulent activities it should have come as no surprise to the Circle Ten Council (Dallas, TX), when federal agents raided their offices on the morning of 7 April 2000. This raid started a federal investigation into the Council's fraudulent membership reporting. The investigation resulted in the impanelling of a federal grand jury in 2003 to examine the evidence and hear testimony from government witnesses. As of January 2005, that examination was yet to be concluded.

However, since the raid, the council has revised their membership rolls by -35%, or a reduction of 20,000 youth. The local United Way chapter, "which had steadily increased its contributions over 10 years based on Circle Ten's membership claims, has reduced donations" to the council each year, since 2000.

 

"In Atlanta, independent auditors are investigating claims the metro area´s Boy Scouts inflated black membership numbers to 20,000 to gain more donations. A civil rights leader contends there are no more than 500 blacks actively involved." For more information on this current scandal, click here. At the end of 2004, we learned that the FBI was investigating the Greater Alabama Council (Birmingham, AL) for yet another fraudulent membership scheme. We'll probably read about the council revising their membership numbers in the next couple of months. However, until a paid BSA professional is prosecuted for fraud, there will be no incentive to other paid professionals to just say no to BSA National's insistence on inflating membership figures. Until BSA allows outside and independent audits to be conducted of its membership rolls, the public will have no confidence in the membership figures printed in BSA's Annual Report to Congress .

[Pack18Alex]

In fairness, given the antiquated systems the BSA has for adding youth (and no ability to remove them), I'm not sure that fraud is fair... I think that any membership number you get out of the BSA is practically a random number generator.

[ThomasJefferson]

In fairness, given the antiquated systems the BSA has for adding youth (and no ability to remove them), I'm not sure that fraud is fair... I think that any membership number you get out of the BSA is practically a random number generator.

Fraud has been proven and even resulted in investigations. It's not "unfair." It's a fact.

 

Until BSA has independent auditors review all membership counts, I'm betting BSA's numbers are a complete and total forgery. All of those counts, even as seen on the anti-BSA sites, are invalid and overblown.

 

I bet the only reason the girl scouts numbers are smaller is that they are honest about them.

 

Really - is BSA is corporation that deserves government charters, trademarks, patents, and control over the boy scouting movement in this country? That monopoly hold needs to be broken.

[Pack18Alex]

In fairness, given the antiquated systems the BSA has for adding youth (and no ability to remove them), I'm not sure that fraud is fair... I think that any membership number you get out of the BSA is practically a random number generator.

Fraud implied criminal intent. I think that there is far more incompetency at the BSA than criminal malice.

 

I don't think that the BSA's numbers are a complete and total forgery... Forgery implies that they are totally made up... they aren't totally made up, they are just wrong, imprecise, and not accurate.

 

Nobody is at BSA inventing numbers. They total up the numbers from the Councils broken system, who total up unit numbers incorrectly, who have incorrect numbers because of broken tools.

 

No one forged anything, but the numbers are all wrong.

[Scouter99]

By 1991, most of the headlines BSA was grabbing were related to the 3G's. However, in Los Angeles the Council was being audited because a former paid professional alleged membership fraud in the council's inner-city outreach program. BSA National refused to allow an outside audit of the council's rolls and reported that the council had indeed inflated its rolls, but only by about 1,800 youth. Other former paid professionals reported that the actual number was more like 16,000, from a total of 80,000. It should be noted that by 2000, the council reported about 41,000 registered youth.

 

Another former paid professional blew the whistle on another membership scandal in 1994 on the Andrew Jackson Council (Vicksburg, MS). Brian Paul Freese, "wrote in his resignation letter that he had been threatened with termination for refusing to create fake units and pay their registration fees to national headquarters with diverted funds."

"Phil Gee, a Scout volunteer who was among those who blew the whistle on the alleged practices, said local and national Scout audits found 6,000 inactive Scouts on the rolls. The council's numbers were reduced from 14,000 to 8,000 after all the "ghosts" were purged, Mr. Gee said."

 

For the first time that we know of, an independent review of a Council's membership rolls (albeit a small section) was prepared in 1999. The University of North Florida conducted a study for the Jessie Ball duPont Fund, which provided funds to the Northeast Florida Council (Jacksonville, FL) to provide Scouting to youth in public housing projects (the report can be read here.). The Fund gave more than $327,000, over an eight-year period, to the council for this project. Of the 600 scouts the council claimed, the study could only verify less than 100 and only 125 of the 285 adult volunteer leaders claimed.

 

After more than 25 years of public airing of BSA's fraudulent activities it should have come as no surprise to the Circle Ten Council (Dallas, TX), when federal agents raided their offices on the morning of 7 April 2000. This raid started a federal investigation into the Council's fraudulent membership reporting. The investigation resulted in the impanelling of a federal grand jury in 2003 to examine the evidence and hear testimony from government witnesses. As of January 2005, that examination was yet to be concluded.

However, since the raid, the council has revised their membership rolls by -35%, or a reduction of 20,000 youth. The local United Way chapter, "which had steadily increased its contributions over 10 years based on Circle Ten's membership claims, has reduced donations" to the council each year, since 2000.

 

"In Atlanta, independent auditors are investigating claims the metro area´s Boy Scouts inflated black membership numbers to 20,000 to gain more donations. A civil rights leader contends there are no more than 500 blacks actively involved." For more information on this current scandal, click here. At the end of 2004, we learned that the FBI was investigating the Greater Alabama Council (Birmingham, AL) for yet another fraudulent membership scheme. We'll probably read about the council revising their membership numbers in the next couple of months. However, until a paid BSA professional is prosecuted for fraud, there will be no incentive to other paid professionals to just say no to BSA National's insistence on inflating membership figures. Until BSA allows outside and independent audits to be conducted of its membership rolls, the public will have no confidence in the membership figures printed in BSA's Annual Report to Congress .

When you're copy/pasting someone else's work, you should post a link.

[Kristian]

By 1991, most of the headlines BSA was grabbing were related to the 3G's. However, in Los Angeles the Council was being audited because a former paid professional alleged membership fraud in the council's inner-city outreach program. BSA National refused to allow an outside audit of the council's rolls and reported that the council had indeed inflated its rolls, but only by about 1,800 youth. Other former paid professionals reported that the actual number was more like 16,000, from a total of 80,000. It should be noted that by 2000, the council reported about 41,000 registered youth.

 

Another former paid professional blew the whistle on another membership scandal in 1994 on the Andrew Jackson Council (Vicksburg, MS). Brian Paul Freese, "wrote in his resignation letter that he had been threatened with termination for refusing to create fake units and pay their registration fees to national headquarters with diverted funds."

"Phil Gee, a Scout volunteer who was among those who blew the whistle on the alleged practices, said local and national Scout audits found 6,000 inactive Scouts on the rolls. The council's numbers were reduced from 14,000 to 8,000 after all the "ghosts" were purged, Mr. Gee said."

 

For the first time that we know of, an independent review of a Council's membership rolls (albeit a small section) was prepared in 1999. The University of North Florida conducted a study for the Jessie Ball duPont Fund, which provided funds to the Northeast Florida Council (Jacksonville, FL) to provide Scouting to youth in public housing projects (the report can be read here.). The Fund gave more than $327,000, over an eight-year period, to the council for this project. Of the 600 scouts the council claimed, the study could only verify less than 100 and only 125 of the 285 adult volunteer leaders claimed.

 

After more than 25 years of public airing of BSA's fraudulent activities it should have come as no surprise to the Circle Ten Council (Dallas, TX), when federal agents raided their offices on the morning of 7 April 2000. This raid started a federal investigation into the Council's fraudulent membership reporting. The investigation resulted in the impanelling of a federal grand jury in 2003 to examine the evidence and hear testimony from government witnesses. As of January 2005, that examination was yet to be concluded.

However, since the raid, the council has revised their membership rolls by -35%, or a reduction of 20,000 youth. The local United Way chapter, "which had steadily increased its contributions over 10 years based on Circle Ten's membership claims, has reduced donations" to the council each year, since 2000.

 

"In Atlanta, independent auditors are investigating claims the metro area´s Boy Scouts inflated black membership numbers to 20,000 to gain more donations. A civil rights leader contends there are no more than 500 blacks actively involved." For more information on this current scandal, click here. At the end of 2004, we learned that the FBI was investigating the Greater Alabama Council (Birmingham, AL) for yet another fraudulent membership scheme. We'll probably read about the council revising their membership numbers in the next couple of months. However, until a paid BSA professional is prosecuted for fraud, there will be no incentive to other paid professionals to just say no to BSA National's insistence on inflating membership figures. Until BSA allows outside and independent audits to be conducted of its membership rolls, the public will have no confidence in the membership figures printed in BSA's Annual Report to Congress .

http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/html/mem-scandals.html

[Kristian]

In fairness, given the antiquated systems the BSA has for adding youth (and no ability to remove them), I'm not sure that fraud is fair... I think that any membership number you get out of the BSA is practically a random number generator.

having online registration only which would drop anyone who hasnt paid for that year would certainly help. of course if registered = active = member there still would be issues. having each council publish somewhere on their website the numbers of scouts in each individual unit would also help.

 

some councils have totally made up numbers to meet certain goals though this practice isnt that common even though it continues despite repeated investigations.