Venture Crew supervision Question

[jpstodwftexas]

Had an Interesting situation come up

A Crew from Mississippi is wanting to stay at our Scout Camp..

2 Adult Females..5 Male youths..2 Female youths...Heading to Philmont

Is this possible? No one can seem to give a straight answer from National

They stated they would be willing to Tent camp at our Camp..I see no problem since they will not be sharing tents with any youths..Two deep leadership..

But someone thinks that safe scouting prevents this from happening since it states the rule of 1 male 1 female leadership applies to all camping.

[walk in the woods]

Yeah, I'd interpret that as a violation of YP.

[jpstodwftexas]

Yeah' date=' I'd interpret that as a violation of YP.[/quote']

Which part? two Adult females or 1 male one female part?

Our Camp has separate Male/Female Facilities and Adult/Youth Facilities in regards to Camping..Our Dining facilitiy has separate male/female Facilities..Our lodging Facilities has a single unisex facility...Seem like a mumble jumble when it comes to policy?

[infoscouter]

The Guide to Safe Scouting indicates that all co-ed camping has to have co-ed supervision. I can't imagine that Philmont will let them trek with just two female advisors.

[RichardB]

You sure, I know the answer that was given. Pretty darn straight. As is the current published requirements. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss01.aspx#e Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips and outings. There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when the presence of adult leaders is not required and adult leadership may be limited to training and guidance of the patrol leadership. With the proper training, guidance, and approval by the troop leaders, the patrol can conduct day hikes and service projects. Appropriate adult leadership must be present for all overnight Scouting activities; coed overnight activities even those including parent and childâ€â€require male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities.

[Basementdweller]

Ya know I watched a philmont documentary where two female leaders took a crew out.....The cameraman was a man so I am not sure if that made a difference.....

 

I wonder if they will be allowed out when they get there?????

 

I found this under coed overnight night activities policy

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss01.aspx#f

[walk in the woods]

Yeah' date=' I'd interpret that as a violation of YP.[/quote']

Which part? two Adult females or 1 male one female part?

Our Camp has separate Male/Female Facilities and Adult/Youth Facilities in regards to Camping..Our Dining facilitiy has separate male/female Facilities..Our lodging Facilities has a single unisex facility...Seem like a mumble jumble when it comes to policy?

I think where it fails is the structure of the crew itself not in the facilities. If there are male and female youth on the trek there need to be male and female adults over 21. I think Richard below linked the chapter and verse from the GTSS.

[qwazse]

Agreed that this is not in compliance with the policy. It seems that they are trying to skirt it using BD's reference which mentions housing, but they are using tents. Doesn't wash with me because in my mind campsite=house.

 

However, this is where the policy shows its frayed edges. Are those boys or those adult females at any greater risk because they couldn't find a male leader? I don't think so. Would they be at less risk if an adult male were provided? Doubt it.

 

As far as camp management is concerned, if possible, I would provide an adult male "site guide" to share the campfire with them and set up camp next to the boys' tents.

 

As far as PSR is concerned, I would strongly encourage the crew to describe their situation to the head ranger, and leave it to them to resolve that leg of their journey.

[walk in the woods]

I supposed if all the females were over 18 and at least one of the males (but less than 4) was over 18 you could all register as a Boy Scout Troop and be ok .

[IM_Kathy]

from what I know... since they are a crew they need to have a male and a female. Now if they were a BSA troop with just boys it would be ok because there is no mention in troops requiring 1 adult to be male. ODD isn't it

[Kristian]

could be solved simply with an adult male trek leader. surly this is no shortage of those at a scout camp.

[The Blancmange]

It is ironic that, under a literal interpretation of the rule cited by RichardB above, a troop (by definition all boys and therefore not coed) overnight outing could have 2 female leaders, but a crew outing with a mix of (likely older) males and females could not. Is there some rational basis for the difference?

[qwazse]

It is ironic that, under a literal interpretation of the rule cited by RichardB above, a troop (by definition all boys and therefore not coed) overnight outing could have 2 female leaders, but a crew outing with a mix of (likely older) males and females could not. Is there some rational basis for the difference?

No. But once you've had to have discussions with parents concerned over little Johnny being exposed to girls on scouting activities, you begin to realize that rationality doesn't always cut it.

 

Anyway, the YPT is designed for accountability against worst case scenarios. For this, well-oiled groups like the one described above bear the brunt.

[EagleScout441]

The GTSS states that in order to have female youth there must be female adults, the same applies for male youth.